8 minutes ago, coco said:

Tbf you used Arteta to fit your 'give him time' narrative.

Because they are lots of similar circumstances and he's currently top of the league.

54 minutes ago, Jezz said:

You could even argue the once formidable outfit we became accustomed to from the start of Abramovich's reign died in the 2015/2016 season, and we had one last hurrah in Conte's first year by winning the title when City and Liverpool were still adjusting under Guardiola and Klopp.

• 2017/2018 (5th) = 70 points (30 points behind 1st) -- CONTE 🇮🇹
• 2018/2019 (3rd) = 72 points (26 points behind 1st) -- SARRI 🇮🇹
• 2019/2020 (4th) = 66 points (33 points behind 1st) -- LAMPARD 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
• 2020/2021 (4th) = 67 points (19 points behind 1st) -- LAMPARD 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿 // TUCHEL 🇩🇪
• 2021/2022 (3rd) = 74 points (19 points behind 1st) -- TUCHEL 🇩🇪
• 2022/2023 (10th) = 25 points (19 points behind 1st)** -- TUCHEL 🇩🇪 // POTTER 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿

We haven't been close to competing for the title since 2017. If I'm generous, we were good in the first half of 2021/2022 but fell away after that due to a variety of factors.

"Potter might not be the answer, and so far his results have been concerning" but the current crisis is a few years in the making.

Here is where different people might come to different conclusions. Potter might not be the answer, the same could be said for all of those previous managers, but all those mentioned names at the very least did their job and finished top 4. 

How much of this crisis is due to Potter? It's a very much valid question to ask, specially in the light of how others have done before him, nobody actually expected us to be this poor so I simply refuse to believe that Potter's shortcomings now are because of years of not competing for the league title, those two things have nothing to do with each other in that sense.

-Lampard's first job and he finished 4th

-Sarri's first time in England and he finished 3rd and won Europa League

-Conte won the league right in his first season after a shaky start and then finished 5th but won the FA Cup

-Tuchel finished 4th from a terrible position he took over and won the CL and then finished 3rd

Nobody asked Potter to win the league, this is about the state of the squad and the state of the club right now and it looks terrible.

53 minutes ago, Jezz said:

We haven't been close to competing for the title since 2017.

You all keep saying this, and i agree, so why the hell did we get Potter in. Are people really suggesting that Potter can manage a EPL title hunting team that scores goals heavily like all the title winners in recent years including ourselves? Don't come back at me with Arteta as proof it can happen, he came from city, his mentor was Pep, Potter came from mid table Brighton and struggled to score goals there.

As i said, i want him to stay and perform, but all this delusional stuff about him competing in a title race has no credibility at all.

12 hours ago, BedfordBlue said:

As if we’d get relegated. 

It does seem incredible to even be discussing it. But I look at the table and we are currently 10 points above Everton and West Ham who are in the drop zone. You could argue we are in worse form than either of those and have a lot worse injuries. Even bottom club Southampton have beaten us and beat City this week.

You always look at relegation and think there are at least three sides worse than you so you should be okay. Right now, I'm not sure I can say that. Yes, sides might look worse on paper, but they have a bit more bottle and fight about them than we appear to have.

I won't take anything for granted until it is mathematically impossible for us to go down. And to think it wasn't that along ago we were talking about what a disaster it would be to miss out on top 4!!

 

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by Nibs

He shouldn't, but player power comes into play. Unfortunately the fans will pile pressure on too. There are certain things he can control, and he's been trying to make changes to personnel, but it's not easy.

He tried changing Azpi for the youth player, but didn't work. he plays Hall at lb, he plays Chekwemeka and Hutchinson. 

For me there are players hiding behind poor performances as a whole and the blame pointing at Potter. I'm sick of it every time we play poorly. 

18 minutes ago, jack_super_class said:

Because they are lots of similar circumstances and he's currently top of the league.

Is there really ? He inherited a far inferior squad than potter and at least won the fa cup in his first year which gave fans/owners something to point to with their “process” , I have my doubts if Chelsea will even come 8th this season like arsenal did. 
 

In saying all that let’s see where arsenal are at the end of the season before proclaiming him as a success on the back of giving struggling managers time, bare in mind solskjaer came 2nd after been given time for his and we know how that ended. 

No. 

The media and some fans want us to shut up and put up with Potter  trust the manager and the process just watch them all turn when we're fighting a relegation battle or in danger of the dropping into the championship, they will attack Potter and the ownership and have a field day, nothing like a top team hitting the bottom for the press you can seem it coming with Potter build em up to knock em down

6 minutes ago, Blue72 said:

The media and some fans want us to shut up and put up with Potter  trust the manager and the process just watch them all turn when we're fighting a relegation battle or in danger of the dropping into the championship, they will attack Potter and the ownership and have a field day, nothing like a top team hitting the bottom for the press you can seem it coming with Potter build em up to knock em down

Well yes because if we're fighting a relegation battle then that's new information. 

I currently see us as a mess of a club that needs sorting out. But we aren't getting relegated. 

If we look like we are going to get relegated I want Potter out. But at that stage no one can blame the players, the injuries etc. It will be on Potter 

Right now there are many other excuses for why we aren't top 6. But there are no excuses if we are in the relegation places. 

3 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Well yes because if we're fighting a relegation battle then that's new information. 

I currently see us as a mess of a club that needs sorting out. But we aren't getting relegated. 

If we look like we are going to get relegated I want Potter out. But at that stage no one can blame the players, the injuries etc. It will be on Potter 

Right now there are many other excuses for why we aren't top 6. But there are no excuses if we are in the relegation places. 

Problem is when you get into a relegation battle it sometimes becomes to late to act

Last night was close and possibly even probably we would have won if Felix had not see Red.

We now have Palace- H, Liverpool -A, Fulham-H and West Ham-A.

If we fail to win any I cannot see him staying and that could be 4.5 years of compensation for him and possibly some of the staff that came with him.

Note all those sides above will now be prepared to put crosses in to test Kepa.

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by strider6004

2 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

Players aren't playing for him then get rid of them, they will do it to the next manager too.

Most of these players aren't good enough anyway so who cares if they leave.

 

Changing the whole squad would accomplish nothing. Bring in 14 new players and Potter would still spend the next 3 games chopping and changing 

I know you want to give Potter a shot but the reality is Potter doesn't know what to do. Look at his mannerisms, interviews, substitutions and press conferences. He doesn't even try to build a siege mentality with the players when normally adversity can help bring people together. 

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Here is where different people might come to different conclusions. Potter might not be the answer, the same could be said for all of those previous managers, but all those mentioned names at the very least did their job and finished top 4. 

How much of this crisis is due to Potter? It's a very much valid question to ask, specially in the light of how others have done before him, nobody actually expected us to be this poor so I simply refuse to believe that Potter's shortcomings now are because of years of not competing for the league title, those two things have nothing to do with each other in that sense.

-Lampard's first job and he finished 4th

-Sarri's first time in England and he finished 3rd and won Europa League

-Conte won the league right in his first season after a shaky start and then finished 5th but won the FA Cup

-Tuchel finished 4th from a terrible position he took over and won the CL and then finished 3rd

Nobody asked Potter to win the league, this is about the state of the squad and the state of the club right now and it looks terrible.

I mean earlier in the season,  a lot of us criticized Tuchel for slipping out of Top 4 but suddenly is fine with Potter torpedoing us to lower midtable 

Why? 

13 minutes ago, Deino said:

I mean earlier in the season,  a lot of us criticized Tuchel for slipping out of Top 4 but suddenly is fine with Potter torpedoing us to lower midtable 

Why? 

Bit disingenuous. I'd say 90% Chelsea fans felt Tuchel was in a tough place and should be given time to turn around. Now half the Chelsea fans are attacking Potter and demanding he be sacked. 

I'd be surprised if anyone saying Potter needs more time was being harsher to Tuchel. Most of the people who want to give Potter time just have a firm belief that sacking a manager every 18 months is one reason why we don't challenge for the league anymore and we need to focus on kicking out players rather than managers. That applies to both. 

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by bisright1

Perhaps the owners are trying to erase player power by removing the sacking culture, so therefore no point for players to down tools when they don’t like the manager anymore.

I feel with Roman culture, the player power came and players could get the manager sacked if they wanted to. I think it’s a good idea and im still willing to give Potter a chance, yes he should be doing a lot better but I feel it will take time for players to realise he’s not getting sacked and pick up.

5 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Bit disingenuous. I'd say 90% Chelsea fans felt Tuchel was in a tough place and should be given time to turn around. Now half the Chelsea fans are attacking Potter and demanding he be sacked. 

I'd be surprised if anyone saying Potter needs more time was being harsher to Tuchel. Most of the people who want to give Potter time just have a firm belief that sacking a manager every 18 months is one reason why we don't challenge for the league anymore and we need to focus on kicking out players rather than managers. That applies to both. 

In general changing managers every 2-5 years is pretty much the norm anywhere whether it be sport or business. There are very few managers that enjoy long tenures. Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp and Pep. Those managers belong in a different class than Potter altogether 

Just now, Deino said:

In general changing managers every 2-5 years is pretty much the norm anywhere whether it be sport or business. There are very few managers that enjoy long tenures. Ferguson, Wenger, Klopp and Pep. Those managers belong in a different class than Potter altogether 

The last time a manager did two full seasons here was Conte 😉 So maybe we just want to see the norm first! 

11 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Bit disingenuous. I'd say 90% Chelsea fans felt Tuchel was in a tough place and should be given time to turn around. Now half the Chelsea fans are attacking Potter and demanding he be sacked. 

I'd be surprised if anyone saying Potter needs more time was being harsher to Tuchel. Most of the people who want to give Potter time just have a firm belief that sacking a manager every 18 months is one reason why we don't challenge for the league anymore and we need to focus on kicking out players rather than managers. That applies to both. 

Tuchel never had us worried about getting bloody relegated. The situations aren't remotely similar.

 

20 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Bit disingenuous. I'd say 90% Chelsea fans felt Tuchel was in a tough place and should be given time to turn around. Now half the Chelsea fans are attacking Potter and demanding he be sacked. 

I'd be surprised if anyone saying Potter needs more time was being harsher to Tuchel. Most of the people who want to give Potter time just have a firm belief that sacking a manager every 18 months is one reason why we don't challenge for the league anymore and we need to focus on kicking out players rather than managers. That applies to both. 

I said Tuchel should stay because he's a proven winner and I had full trust in him at to turn things around given his record.

Potter has just had the best results of his entire English career with us, I'd rather we didn't move further towards the 28% win rate Potter had in the league at Brighton or the regular double digit runs he went on without a win

His stans constantly mention Arteta but why is Potter the next Arteta and not the next Hodgson, Moyes or Nuno? Albeit all 3 of those did better jobs at smaller clubs than Potter did at Brighton

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by TimesUpPotter

8 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Tuchel never had us worried about getting bloody relegated. The situations aren't remotely similar.

 

He got us worried about CL qualification to the knock out stages, so who's to say that we wouldn't be in the same situation with him in the PL? And I advocated for him to stay, but there were discussions in here about how much time Tuchel should be given given the results we were getting and the dire football we were playing.

I'm on the fence regarding Potter, I just don't see any good alternative to him at the moment that could come and get us winning. I'm not sure that any other coach, given the team we have at the moment, could do much different.

13 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

The last time a manager did two full seasons here was Conte 😉 So maybe we just want to see the norm first! 

And waste money, time and players on a manager that can't hack it? Come on now, Potter himself can't muster the anger, rage and belief in himself to fight for his career, why do we need to give him more chances to fail? 

By end of February, he'd be having 90% of the full squad, of which he'll then chop and change some more until injuries hit and the cycle begins again. 

 

I say why change manager again unless the team is in the drop zone ? Even if we could locate a suitable candidate and if that person could get a tune out of this problematic squad the points lost now mean a fight to get any European place would be challenging. Unlike RA top 4 does not seem to be a requirement for Todd & Co. They will soon see that revenue drops sharply without CL income, but we all of us sometimes have to learn the hard way. We just have to suffer this crappy football with a lackluster manager and hope that the 'process' CFC propaganda keeps mentioning will begin to work, because so far its been an abject failure. A few wins of course would change all that - football and fans are fickle as F.

2 minutes ago, RMH said:

He got us worried about CL qualification to the knock out stages, so who's to say that we wouldn't be in the same situation with him in the PL? And I advocated for him to stay, but there were discussions in here about how much time Tuchel should be given given the results we were getting and the dire football we were playing.

I'm on the fence regarding Potter, I just don't see any good alternative to him at the moment that could come and get us winning. I'm not sure that any other coach, given the team we have at the moment, could do much different.

Because it's Tuchel, even in the worst run last year, we still had a dog in the fight. Almost 20 games under Potter and everyone has lost spirit.  

If 1 or 2 players can't hack it, that's at least understandable. Nobody is playing for him. He had to hold a "meeting" between senior players of which shouldn't really be here next year anyway. It's beyond pathetic how we cling to incompetency for the sake of "2 year project"

Rather than consider should he be sacked im looking at it from a very slightly different angle

what are the reasons for keeping him on?

1.The Owner would be admitting recruitment failure if he let him go and would prove not to be a man of his word having recruited him for the long term.

2.Continuity.

My list isnt that long, but what i do feel is Potter seems like Hodgson - can do it abroad or at a small club but Hodgson couldnt do it at Liverpool. Potter hasnt yet at Chelsea

Re the famous old line " Give him more time" - why, i personally dont see any examples of green shoots in anything he does.

For me he will never make it at Chelsea*, the job is too big for him but i suspect he will get a fair amount of time to prove that beyond doubt. Oh and in most things you need some luck, he certainly hasnt got much of that with injuries, loan players get banned for three games and so on.

*i could be tempted to show my a** at the Britannia Gate if he does!🙂

 

 

 

Edited January 13, 20233 yr by OneTommyLangley

4 minutes ago, General said:

A few wins of course would change all that - football and fans are fickle as F.

Football is imo a game of momentum, you want to keep that momentum of winning going and stop any momentum of failing from gaining traction. The more Potter allows bad performances and defeats, the more negativity compounds