1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

I know it's not fashionable and I know he's not an elite player but I can't help it, I do like that Wout Weghorst. A big hard f**ker up front which our midfielders could work off of, could be something different for us to have.

He's awful tbh. He was actually a 1 in 2 goalscorer playing in the Dutch and German leagues, but really cannot cope with the pace of the EPL. He is okay for 30 minutes here and there at international level, against a wimp like John Stones, but he is neither particularly physical nor technical enough to improve a top club team.

England were clearly superior to Holland on the night, but still might have lost of course. England’s super easy draw has them in the final without ever playing anyone capable of seriously challenging them. holland don’t forget were not that good and not all that highly rated. 
 

spain have had to beat Germany, a good side and the host, and then France, a tough team to beat as the English would know. 
 

It might be a decent final. 
 

13 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

When you have really good penalty takers like Saka and Rashford bottle it in a final you deserved to win I would not call him a lucky coach. That is enough bad luck to kill a career.

Nah we scored early, sat back for 80 minutes waiting to get beat, but held on for penalties and deservedly lost.  That should have been Southgate’s last game.

3 minutes ago, ozboy said:

England were clearly superior to Holland on the night, but still might have lost of course. England’s super easy draw has them in the final without ever playing anyone capable of seriously challenging them. holland don’t forget were not that good and not all that highly rated. 
 

spain have had to beat Germany, a good side and the host, and then France, a tough team to beat as the English would know. 
 

It might be a decent final. 
 

Germany weren't great. Switzerland drew with them and England eventually put Switzerland out.  France have been bloody awful throughout the tournament although admittedly improved against Spain.

It's been a poor tournament overall.  

Southgate has learned very slowly since it started. Eventually changed the formation and eventually started making changes slightly earlier on games.  First 45 tonight they finally looked like a team. 

Tournaments like this are riddled with teams not looking great but going on to win them after gradually improving.

Personally I'd drop Kane and Bellingham for the final but its never going to happen and I understand why.

33 minutes ago, andy said:

Sorry mate, with the greatest respect that is so wrong. 

His record is outstanding and even if we lose Sunday he will go down in history   

His record without context is great. Add some context to it, like the fact that he has had the best set of players in Europe for about 6 years now (which has only gotten stronger in that time) that is playing on the easy side of the draw, and it suddenly doesn't look so impressive.

I've said it once and I will say it a thousand times, it's not Southgate's tactics that got England to the Final, it's 100% down to individual moments from an exceptional group of talented players.

1 hour ago, Mod said:

Southgate is tactically useless! We had the easier group and he's winged it to the final down to luck and some brilliant clutch last-minute goals! Also, Pickford's bottle helped!

The difference between having Southgate and a good manager means we win the last Euro, did better in the World Cup and go in against Spain with more confidence!

100%

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Alright so maybe Scott won't be alone in being on Southgates case even if England win lol.

Errr... +1 for me too mate.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

If England win, I couldn't give a stuff about Southgate, I will just be celebrating England winning a tournament for once in my life. If England do win it, it will be in spite of Southgate, not because of him. He's the luckiest coach in international football to be in charge of this squad, even more lucky than Roberto Martinez.

 

21 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

Nah we scored early, sat back for 80 minutes waiting to get beat, but held on for penalties and deservedly lost.  That should have been Southgate’s last game.

100% agreed with all the above...

 

I've been moaning since the start.

Gareth did an amazing job in bringing the players together as a team but his time was up long ago. We needed a proper tactical coach and Gareth to continue his hippie HR work with the team as a member of the FA or something. 

42 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

When you have really good penalty takers like Saka and Rashford bottle it in a final you deserved to win I would not call him a lucky coach. That is enough bad luck to kill a career.

He choose to put an inexperienced Saka on the pitch to take penalties. He choose to put Rashford on who had just recovered from a double back fracture. It was a reckless and needless risk to take in any final.

Don't get me wrong...the emotional/mental side of the players is an important job and one Gareth has been amazing at and should continue.

I.e. family bbq stuff, replaying old matches, family photo events...all that is important in bringing the team together and for them to fight for one another.

But that shouldn't be the coaches job because as many can see it takes the tactics away from the game. Southgate has none! As many have said he relies on individual brilliance which we have in abundance with an amazing squad.

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

He choose to put an inexperienced Saka on the pitch to take penalties. He choose to put Rashford on who had just recovered from a double back fracture. It was a reckless and needless risk to take in any final.

So on the one hand Southgate is too rigid to his tactic, or lack there of, and stands by his favorites because he is too scared of change.

Yet on the other he is reckless and takes needles risks. Dr. Gareth and Mr. Southgate.

1 hour ago, loz said:

Germany weren't great.

Germany weren't great but they were ok and on home soil. You'd have backed them to beat the Dutch, or I would have. England did a great job keeping Gapko quiet. The value of the England squad will be far higher than the value of the Spanish squad. One of strengths of England is huge bench depth. Far greater attacking depth than any other country, not even close.

Can we buy Ollie Watkins..he is just what we need..🙂 

As I said before, Southgate could win the euros and people will still complain and take away from his achievements. People seem more concerned with looking good than actual results.

Whatever the result in Sunday I’m pretty sure he’s going to leave and he would leave having done a good job overall. 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

His record without context is great. Add some context to it, like the fact that he has had the best set of players in Europe for about 6 years now (which has only gotten stronger in that time) that is playing on the easy side of the draw, and it suddenly doesn't look so impressive.

I've said it once and I will say it a thousand times, it's not Southgate's tactics that got England to the Final, it's 100% down to individual moments from an exceptional group of talented players.

Italy and France have been doing this for years to great success, why is it suddenly a problem with Southgate? 

I wonder, how many of this England team would you say makes it in to the Chelsea 11?

I ask cause I keep seeing how this is the most talented group around in international football (for me Spain, Argentina, Brazil and Canada at a minimum have better sets of players............................................

Ok not the last one, just wanted to give Just a laugh lol).

So how would you stack them up against this conference level Chelsea team? This is just my opinion on that.

 

Pickford or Sanchez/Kepa? All 3 are cr@p so neither plus or minus 1.

Walker vs James? Reece for me every day, though you can argue this is also a draw since Reece would likely be England's number 1 if he could stay fit.

Stones vs Fofana? Fofana for me.

Marc G vs Levi C. Colwill by a mile.

Trippier vs Cucurella? Cucu By a curley hair.

 

Rice and Mainoo or Enzo and Caicedo? No contest again for the Chelsea Boys.

 

Where England win out is their 4 attackers for me. Saka, Bellingham, Kane and Foden are better than anyone not named Cole Palmer at Chelsea, and England have him as well.

 

4 for England, 5 for Chelsea and 2 draws for me. So really, imo, a very, very good offense ahead of a erratic keeper, mediocre back line and overrated midfield, again in my opinion.

Southgate has done very well helping them become more than the sum of their parts. And that's the key. Being a team, a true team, is what they are and, on merit, have reached the first final on foreign soil ever. 

 

👏 

2 hours ago, guddy69 said:

Can we buy Ollie Watkins..he is just what we need..🙂 

He's a super striker. I was mesmerised by him when he ripped apart Man City when they beat out Liverpool on the last day of the season in 2022. Unfortunately with Villa's ascent, we've missed the boat on that one.

This has been a poor tournament, teams/ players appear to have run out of energy at the end of a long hard season. Maybe the lack of a proper closed season over many years has at last caught quite a few out. We do now play too many games.

England make another final, they haven’t been great but that can be said of most of the teams…Spain being the exception? Tournaments though are won on moments, keeping a squad ‘tight’. Individual brilliance is often the key, the two finalists can boast more of these than the rest and hence reached the summit. The majority of international teams aren’t as good tactically as the club sides where they inherit the players…the coaches simply don’t have the time to work with them and do well to produce a coherent unit. 
Southgate whilst having his limitations has done well in his managerial stint, now can he bring it home? 

4 hours ago, guddy69 said:

Can we buy Ollie Watkins..he is just what we need..🙂 

Sadly not. But I think we could by Toney and if he has his addiction under control he could also be just what we need

I think Southgate has done a reasonable job and if we end up winning it on Sunday, he will be hailed a genius and probably get a knighthood, despite the fact he really has ridden his luck along the way.

In this tournament we have looked rather average and came very close to going out. People talk about his record, but in qualifying these days, looks at many of the teams you play – the likes of Macedonia, Malta, Kosovo, Montenegro, Albania so it is really hard NOT to qualify these days.

I think he is also fortunate that other countries don’t have the great sides they did in the past. Germany & Italy are a lot weaker for sure and Spain don’t have an Iniesta or Xavi and France don’t have a Zidane or Henry.

None of this will matter on Sunday if we win, but win we should with the squad and the options he has at his disposal. My fear is that he will of course stick to the same starting line up so will play the players whop have underperformed in this tournament – Kane, Bellingham and Foden and this time will leave it too late to bring on Watkins, Palmer, Toney etc. We can’t keep coming back from being a goal down and if that 0-1, becomes 0-2 but he’s reluctant to make early changes, it will cost us.

But then again, he might just be Mr Golden Bollocks and get lucky one more time……….!

Call it Southgate's genius or Southgate's luck yet when he brings on Palmer and Watkins last night the game was stretched they had more space as the Netherlands had brought on all the giants to try and get a late goal.

Palmer and Watkins have largely gone under the international radar and so only had one man on each of them and the Dutch defenders did not know the skill-set of their opponents..

Spain will have noticed that detail, you can bet on it.

1 hour ago, Nibs said:

I think Southgate has done a reasonable job and if we end up winning it on Sunday, he will be hailed a genius and probably get a knighthood, despite the fact he really has ridden his luck along the way.

In this tournament we have looked rather average and came very close to going out. People talk about his record, but in qualifying these days, looks at many of the teams you play – the likes of Macedonia, Malta, Kosovo, Montenegro, Albania so it is really hard NOT to qualify these days.

I think he is also fortunate that other countries don’t have the great sides they did in the past. Germany & Italy are a lot weaker for sure and Spain don’t have an Iniesta or Xavi and France don’t have a Zidane or Henry.

None of this will matter on Sunday if we win, but win we should with the squad and the options he has at his disposal. My fear is that he will of course stick to the same starting line up so will play the players whop have underperformed in this tournament – Kane, Bellingham and Foden and this time will leave it too late to bring on Watkins, Palmer, Toney etc. We can’t keep coming back from being a goal down and if that 0-1, becomes 0-2 but he’s reluctant to make early changes, it will cost us.

But then again, he might just be Mr Golden Bollocks and get lucky one more time……….!

Again, this is not a current day thing so it can't be used to knock Southgate. For the 2006 World cup we faced the likes of Azerbaijan, Wales, Northern Ireland and Austria in qualifying. Poland finished a point behind us but they were a terrible team as well at that time.

2008 Euros we didn't qualify cause we dropped points to the likes of Israel and Macadonia, hardly giants of the game. 

2010 World cup we faced Andorra, Kazakhstan, Belarus and a very average Croatia team at the time. Ukraine were fairly decent at this time so they were the only real competition. 

All these "easy" nations over the years and yet Southgate is the only manager in recent years to go undefeated during qualifying. 

England should be seen as the slight favorites now due to coming back from behind and winning matches, Spain despite the absence of Pedri (and Gavi) still looks strong but Mainoo is surely more fresh than Rodri and F.Ruiz.

The penalty on Kane was a joke though, it must be said that without it England probably misses out on the final.

3 hours ago, strider6004 said:

Call it Southgate's genius or Southgate's luck yet when he brings on Palmer and Watkins last night the game was stretched they had more space as the Netherlands had brought on all the giants to try and get a late goal.

Palmer and Watkins have largely gone under the international radar and so only had one man on each of them and the Dutch defenders did not know the skill-set of their opponents..

Spain will have noticed that detail, you can bet on it.

i doubt Spain will need to worry about Watkins and Palmer, neither of them will start and will only be thrown on if we England are behind with 20 minutes to go, they could be a couple of goals up by then

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

The penalty on Kane was a joke though, it must be said that without it England probably misses out on the final.

You are right Gol the Kane decision was never a penalty. But every team needs "luck" to go there way at some point in a tournament, if they are to win it. Italy had two giant decisions go for them in the knockout game against Austria in the 2020 euros.

Edited July 11, 20242 yr by just

In all honesty though where do you see Southgate’s career going after this?  No doubt some decent team will give him an opportunity to start off (please Man Utd).  However a few years down the line I see the headline “Sir Gareth sacked as Derby County relegated to League two”.

Also Clearlake don’t you f**king dare even think about it.

1 hour ago, DarkMata said:

In all honesty though where do you see Southgate’s career going after this?  No doubt some decent team will give him an opportunity to start off (please Man Utd).  However a few years down the line I see the headline “Sir Gareth sacked as Derby County relegated to League two”.

Also Clearlake don’t you f**king dare even think about it.

Think he has got Newcastle stamped all over him.

Actually I'd take that right now. Straight swap of Howe for Sir Gareth.