3 minutes ago, SimonH said:

All this talk of Poch being sacked is mental. It’s Paul Winstanley and Laurence Stewart that should be immediately removed. All this sh*te we’ve bought for big money was nothing to do with our current manager. 

I think that this is a very valid point.

Because we have seen so many departures behind the scenes i think the one major issue that may have been overlooked is the departure of Christopher Vivell. I have an inkling that this guy, over time, would have delivered the model that Boehly and Co were looking for. With Vivell leaving due to the redundancy of his role caused by the Winstanley, Stewart and Sheilds positions, it appears tayh tehse have waded in throwign stupid amount sof money at unproven kids that they cannot possibly have any idea about their ultimate "ceiling".

Brighton and Southampton are put up as models of this approach but nobody is aware of the amount of these kids they unearth turn out to be flops.

I wonder if we have once again taken a wrong turn and bet the house on Winstanley and Stewart, whilst allowing the true potential mastermind of the operation to slip through our fingers.

Hopefully i am wrong but it looks like a mixture of a soap opera and the Rocky Horror show at the club at the moment.

10 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I think that this is a very valid point.

Because we have seen so many departures behind the scenes i think the one major issue that may have been overlooked is the departure of Christopher Vivell. I have an inkling that this guy, over time, would have delivered the model that Boehly and Co were looking for. With Vivell leaving due to the redundancy of his role caused by the Winstanley, Stewart and Sheilds positions, it appears tayh tehse have waded in throwign stupid amount sof money at unproven kids that they cannot possibly have any idea about their ultimate "ceiling".

Brighton and Southampton are put up as models of this approach but nobody is aware of the amount of these kids they unearth turn out to be flops.

I wonder if we have once again taken a wrong turn and bet the house on Winstanley and Stewart, whilst allowing the true potential mastermind of the operation to slip through our fingers.

Hopefully i am wrong but it looks like a mixture of a soap opera and the Rocky Horror show at the club at the moment.

I'd love to know what went on with Vivell, but I imagine he's had a nice pay off to buy his silence. 

Winstanley probably got far too much praise for his role at Brighton, where the star of the show in their recruitment is really Tony Bloom's Analytics company ... 

 

Winstanley and Stewart are just doing what ownership wants to be fair. 

So Ngunku not even on the bench last night so suggests an injury set back for me.

No recognised midfielders on the bench recently, surely time to bring back Santos from Forest.

I do wonder about Poch's tactics when we go behind and whether it is time to go three at the back for extra bodies elsewhere to get level

Also think Mudryk should be on the bench rather than having Sterling on the Right side.

Palmer one of the few still showing composure and skill.

I also wonder if we need a pay penalty against players for getting cards for dissent.

 

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Winstanley and Stewart are just doing what ownership wants to be fair. 

Everybody in a job does what their line managers, senior directors, and ultimately owners wants. It's whether these people execute those objectives competently.

Surely the ownership did not state that to implement their plan of reducing the age of the squad and increase the marketeability we were to go into South America and pick up half a dozen kids and pay well over the top for them.

I am not giving Boehly and Co. a free pass here but we have to wake up to fact that we effectively replenished our U21 squad with a load of kids that we paid way over the top for and bigged up as if it were some major coup that we had pulled off, making these all out to be first team squad players, which they are clearly not ready for.

Just now, WhiteWall said:

Surely the ownership did not state that to implement their plan of reducing the age of the squad and increase the marketeability we were to go into South America and pick up half a dozen kids and pay well over the top for them.

Genuinely believe they did. Why else did they bring specialists like Winstanley and Stewart in?

Realistically if you got £1B to add to a squad that won the Champions League 12 months prior, you dont need these high level scouts, and sporting directors travelling the globe. 

You need a 14 year old kid that plays fifa! 

The market we shouldve been in with those funds, from that starting position, is not the one we ended up in.

4 minutes ago, big blue said:

Realistically if you got £1B to add to a squad that won the Champions League 12 months prior, you dont need these high level scouts, and sporting directors travelling the globe. 

You need a 14 year old kid that plays fifa! 

The market we shouldve been in with those funds, from that starting position, is not the one we ended up in.

Yup they could have built an amazing team, instead they based it off a way to try and make money.

ETH said before the game that Chelsea do not know how to defend, and they would target that.

ETH said that, and he is right. Let that sink in.

Probably need to go to 3 at the back again. 

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Probably need to go to 3 at the back again. 

It’s our last hope considering how bad we’re defending

2 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

It’s our last hope considering how bad we’re defending

I don't see any other choice to be honest, and at the very least it'll put some players back in their strongest positions. This team simply cannot defend, whether its down to personnel, tactics or a bit of both. Something needs to change. 

Sanchez

Badiashile Silva Colwill

James Caicedo Enzo Maatsen

Palmer  Sterling

Jackson

 

Everyone who bemoan the 3 at the back now realise until this team develops into an actual “T.E.A.M”  we are not a that team to play two in the middle maybe when we reach some stability we can switch but since the switch we have been woeful at defending.

If you go back to some of my old post I said this exactly when certain fans wanted the 3 at the back ditched I said it’s not the formation that’s the issue it’s just a framework that the players work in and it’s has proved to be correct.

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd love to know what went on with Vivell, but I imagine he's had a nice pay off to buy his silence. 

Winstanley probably got far too much praise for his role at Brighton, where the star of the show in their recruitment is really Tony Bloom's Analytics company ... 

 

Todd and Co told us that they were bringing a data driven approach to our club .

I don't know how that has driven our transfer policy?

29 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I don't see any other choice to be honest, and at the very least it'll put some players back in their strongest positions. This team simply cannot defend, whether its down to personnel, tactics or a bit of both. Something needs to change. 

Sanchez

Badiashile Silva Colwill

James Caicedo Enzo Maatsen

Palmer  Sterling

Jackson

 

I like the line up but Poch will want to fit Gallagher in somewhere, so one of Caicedo or Enzo is probably  on the bench if we go back to 3-4-2-1, which will no doubt upset the owners. Can't see Gallagher for Palmer as that leaves us way too limited going forwards. Broja for Jackson as well perhaps ?

I know he's highly rated by some but I'd like to see Silva on the bench

9 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Todd and Co told us that they were bringing a data driven approach to our club .

I don't know how that has driven our transfer policy?

I'm sure they thought their data was identifying top prospects, but in the short term it certainly doesn't seem that way ! 

Of secondary, but no doubt significant, importance was the desire to trim costs from the wage bill, and young players are nearly always going to be paid less wages than those with more experience.

A very good manager, but the EPL has changed so much with the arrival of Guardiola and Klopp and all the money that the lesser clubs now have to build strong squads. 

What used to work 5-6 years ago, does not work anymore.

City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle. What do they have in common? Attacking, high intensity pressing, free flowing football. No wonder they are at the top playing very good football. 

The best examples are Newcastle and Brighton. If those clubs can play that brand of football, I see no reason why Chelsea can't do it as well.

I'm thinking a manager like Eddie Howe, once he got the Newcastle job, would have had all the reasons to play it safe and try to play a brand of football that would ensure he protects his job, too. But he went all in from day one and it paid off. And he does it with a squad that let me believe is not miles better than the Chelsea squad. 

De Zerbi also plays a better brand of football than ours with a squad that, once again, let me believe is not better than Chelsea's. All this while losing his best midfielder (Caicedo) and getting into whole new territories (European football) for a club like Brighton. 

Sometimes you just need to be brave and take risks. 

IMHO the board did a good job building the squad, but totally got the two manager appointments wrong. Potter and Pochettino are not bad managers, but not fit for this squad. 

What these players need is an attacking manager with fresh new ideas and a style of football that's more fit to what is played currently in the PL. 

You watch Man. United every week and they are a mess, concede goals for fun and look like a mid table club. To go to their ground last night and make them look like last season's Man. City is just embarrassing. 

I'd give him until the summer and m, if we're showing no improvement, bring Jose back home.

18 minutes ago, petre ispirescu said:

A very good manager, but the EPL has changed so much with the arrival of Guardiola and Klopp and all the money that the lesser clubs now have to build strong squads. 

What used to work 5-6 years ago, does not work anymore.

City, Liverpool, Arsenal, Newcastle. What do they have in common? Attacking, high intensity pressing, free flowing football. No wonder they are at the top playing very good football. 

The best examples are Newcastle and Brighton. If those clubs can play that brand of football, I see no reason why Chelsea can't do it as well.

I'm thinking a manager like Eddie Howe, once he got the Newcastle job, would have had all the reasons to play it safe and try to play a brand of football that would ensure he protects his job, too. But he went all in from day one and it paid off. And he does it with a squad that let me believe is not miles better than the Chelsea squad. 

De Zerbi also plays a better brand of football than ours with a squad that, once again, let me believe is not better than Chelsea's. All this while losing his best midfielder (Caicedo) and getting into whole new territories (European football) for a club like Brighton. 

Sometimes you just need to be brave and take risks. 

IMHO the board did a good job building the squad, but totally got the two manager appointments wrong. Potter and Pochettino are not bad managers, but not fit for this squad. 

What these players need is an attacking manager with fresh new ideas and a style of football that's more fit to what is played currently in the PL. 

You watch Man. United every week and they are a mess, concede goals for fun and look like a mid table club. To go to their ground last night and make them look like last season's Man. City is just embarrassing. 

Pochettino is well known for his high intensity pressing football.

His spurs team looked like the Newcastle team we are seeing under Howe.

Edited December 7, 20232 yr by Sheva

 

18 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

 

What a f**king circus 🤡 🎪🤹‍♂️so start again from scratch in the summer 🤣🤣 this club will forever be in circus mode until a manager is backed fully. Yes it’s a results business but Ted Lasso and his wise men completely f**ked the club by ripping everything all in one go which is just dumb even in football you can’t do that and expect results.

Just now, El regreso said:

What a f**king circus 🤡 🎪🤹‍♂️so start again from scratch in the summer 🤣🤣 this club will forever be in circus mode until a manager is backed fully. Yes it’s a results business but Ted Lasso and his wise men completely f**ked the club by ripping everything all in one go which is just dumb even in football you can’t do that and expect results.

I am very interested to see who we bring in January. More kids, then hope is lost. 

1 minute ago, El regreso said:

What a f**king circus 🤡 🎪🤹‍♂️so start again from scratch in the summer 🤣🤣 this club will forever be in circus mode until a manager is backed fully. Yes it’s a results business but Ted Lasso and his wise men completely f**ked the club by ripping everything all in one go which is just dumb even in football you can’t do that and expect results.

I don’t think ornstein meant he’ll be sacked in the summer. His job will just be assessed at that point.

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I don't see any other choice to be honest, and at the very least it'll put some players back in their strongest positions. This team simply cannot defend, whether its down to personnel, tactics or a bit of both. Something needs to change. 

Sanchez

Badiashile Silva Colwill

James Caicedo Enzo Maatsen

Palmer  Sterling

Jackson

 

The one thing I don't want us to do is to go back to a back 3. That would mean that the project already failed so Tuchel should just come back. Keep playing a back 4 till it works, try out 4-4-2, be more defensive and play counter-attacking football more but don't go back to a back 3 formation.