Don't know if I can bring myself to watch the 3rd / 4th place playoff. I,d take 4th and get on the plane.

Tuchel's game management today was hard to fathom. I thought he had done pretty well with subs most of the tournament but today was a total disaster. Starting with bringing off Gordon who was our most effective attacker and replacing with Konsa. That gave Argentine the green light to bring on more attackers and siege the England penalty area with inevitable results. It was also pretty clear by then that Rice and James needed subs yet he waited until the 82nd minute and then brought on 2 more defenders, playing one (O'Reilly) out of position in midfield. Our defense looked increasingly confused and overrun leading to gaps and chances. It was all so predictable. Then to cap it all we end the game hoofing long balls hopefully up to Dan Burn as we tried to score late on. Pathetic. It was so bad from Tuchel I wouldn't be surprised if he was paid off.

There wasn’t a suitable ‘out ball’ player for England after Gordon was subbed.

The initiative was handed to Argentina and they took it.

Pickford made a couple of really good saves all and credit to him for that.

Just my humble opinion.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by erskblue

8 hours ago, fun2sh said:

f**king overanimated Pickford ..why the f**k he had to touch that ball that going out resulting corner and first goal.

Its all about him isn't it. He's such a fking idiot.

Just when I thought england might do it under the best manager they have in decades, it's still the same old story.

First half seemed evenly contested, after the goal, england just park the bus. Another example why I said best defence is not by relinquishing possession inviting all sorts of pressure especially when the stake is at high, it's double the pressure.

Did tuchel worry about the solorth-haland gap scenario? I suppose it's better to concede playing that way rather than what has unfolded.

Btw, england's cross were dogsh*t compared to argentina's, not taking trent seems like a mistake now.

9 hours ago, dermott said:

Argentina were simply better. Skills, intelligence, tactics.

And the Man City team we beat in my opinion was better than this Argentina team. It’s difficult to compare national and club teams but I he came up against a better team in 2021 but he also had better players in the right position

You can’t use Rice and Anderson as a midfield two to defend a 1-0 lead.

We are still not a top level team. When we meet a top team we get knocked out, it has been this way for a while. Argentina controlled most of the game, they were the better team.

Semi finals would have been both the minimum requirement for me and a good achievement before the tournament began its difficult because there is a tendency to get carried away and believe we can win it.

Tuchels tactics served us well v Croatia, Mexico and Norway but alas it would have needed something special to stop the Argentinians who have swept aside a two goal deficit v Egypt for fun last week.

The experts in the studio led by the exaggerated and somewhat theatrical behaviour of Micah Ricahards knew in hindsight what Tuchel should have done, as always, but truth is we were second best.

The Argentinians overwhelmed us, it was like men against boys, at a time of their choosing.

Football didnt come home and it probably won't for a while yet. hey ho.

Edited 2 hours ago2 hr by OTL

I dont like saying I told you so in these circumstances...but I f**king told you so.

Hes an incredible negative coach, he is more interested in not losing than winning, has no idea how to actually set up an attack and completely relies on solidity and deep defense.

Everyone could see from the Cape Verde and Egypt games that Argentina cant handle pace running at them, they had 2 cb`s on yellow cards and we were all over them out wide. 

So after we score what does the tactical genius too, pull everyone deep, bring the wide players in side to cover midfield, then take them off for defenders. We had zero outlets, if we did get the ball then there was literally no one up field to get the ball to, the argies were wide open to counters with some pace, like say a Gordon type player, oh wait, hes been subbed for f**king Konsa.

Hes a fraud of a manager living on digging a CL win out with Chelsea by doing exactly the same thing he tried last night and v Mexico and Norway. Nick a goal, scrap to the end.

2 hours ago, erskblue said:

There wasn’t a suitable ‘out ball’ player for England after Gordon was subbed.

The initiative was handed to Argentina and they took it.

Pickford made a couple of really good saves all and credit to him for that.

Just my humble opinion.

Incredible that a top manager thinks the right thing to do after scoring a goal is to go fully defensive and deep, tuck in the wide players, then sub them for defenders and basically just completely concede the pitch an ball to the current world champions. Hes not the genius some think he is, hes an average coach whos unable to build an attack and completely relies on just being a tight 9 defending.

A terrible night for the Germanic mentality. Protestantism may never recover from this. The United States is surely crumbling into the ocean as we speak.

I have always liked TT and do rate him as a top coach but boy did he f**k up and lose us that game last night. What happened after we went 1-0 was totally inexcusable. Such negative tactics that totally backfired and was Gareth Southgate level of coaching.

Also think Harry Kane needs to hang up his boots at international level. He might be a great goal scorer but he had another really poor tournament and at 33, his legs look gone at this level. Hate the fact he stays on when the side was crying out for someone who could actually run.

24 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I have always liked TT and do rate him as a top coach but boy did he f**k up and lose us that game last night. What happened after we went 1-0 was totally inexcusable. Such negative tactics that totally backfired and was Gareth Southgate level of coaching.

Also think Harry Kane needs to hang up his boots at international level. He might be a great goal scorer but he had another really poor tournament and at 33, his legs look gone at this level. Hate the fact he stays on when the side was crying out for someone who could actually run.

Pretty much the way I feel - if TT doesn't walk, I think they should fire him. No coming back from a cock up like that - especially when one of the main reason for appointing him was to avoid that sort of low level negative approach.

Should have kept the attack going after they got the goal and given Saka, Rashford/Toney etc. a chance if it wasn't happening ... instead they tried to park the bus in front of Messi, ffs... all that did was give him a chance to get into the game - dumber and dumber.

Forgot:

The other really dumb thing he did was take off Gordon - who was our "out" because he didn't have the balls to take off Kane who, and I quote "recorded zero touches in the opposition's penalty box during the whole 90'" - what else can you say?

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Bebe1980

go one nil up and then sit on the 18 yard box inviting pressure. On the manager, bye bye.

9 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

@bluelightening

yawn... to be bettered...

Just baffling from Tuchel.

To my mind he did everything right in the tournament. The right squad. The right set up in every game. Up until the moment we scored against Argentina.

Why he bottled it I don't know. Seize the initiative at 1-0. Show Argentina we aren't scared of them. Bring on Rashford and Watkins. Kane needed to come off, he doesn't do well in those games.

Infuriatingly he did that against Croatia. He made the bold calls then.

I only hope this is a lesson he learns. Id rather roll the dice with him again next tournament.

Ive consoled myself this morning. I woke up and remembered the UK owns the Falkland Islands and theyre worth more than Enzo Fernandez.

And the Belgrano is still where Argentina left it.

1 minute ago, bisright1 said:

I only hope this is a lesson he learns. Id rather roll the dice with him again next tournament.

Get rid, like his chelsea side, we were aweful to watch, he was hired to get us over the line and he spectacularly f**ked it up last night, he failed to deliver and his decisions after going one nil up dont deserve to manage a national side, Spence has no business being in an international squad and nearly cost us several occassions last night. Why Take Saka and not use him, Gibbs White would have been made for last nights game retaining possession... Nah, Tuchel's done, find someone else and

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Just baffling from Tuchel.

To my mind he did everything right in the tournament. The right squad. The right set up in every game. Up until the moment we scored against Argentina.

Why he bottled it I don't know. Seize the initiative at 1-0. Show Argentina we aren't scared of them. Bring on Rashford and Watkins. Kane needed to come off, he doesn't do well in those games.

Infuriatingly he did that against Croatia. He made the bold calls then.

I only hope this is a lesson he learns. Id rather roll the dice with him again next tournament.

Result was disappointing of course but I don't believe Tuchel told them to sit after scoring.

Virtually every player in midfield was gassed. You could see it. Kane was done by the 50-60th min. Unless you replace most of the midfield and Kane with subs its gonna be extremely difficult to go against the natural instinct to sit deep. He went for the most logical option given what was available which is an extra defender seeing as the team had already decided to sit back.

The part where he made a mistake in my opinion was not taking off a clearly gassed Kane off for fresh legs on counter.

PMSL @Sconnie Blue if i send you 50p can you go a throw it into the middle of an Argentinian fan park and watch it turn into The Hunger Games.

9 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

A lot of Arsenal's best players look done after this tournament. Saliba's injury looks bad too.

Maresca could bullsh*t his away to a league title, or maybe United will come out of their banter era and claim a surprise win (highly unlikely)

Depends on how stubborn Arteta is. If he manages their minutes at the start of the season and rotates a lot from August mid October/early November, I think they will be fine. But at the same time they risk of having a slow start and not only Rice and Saliba look dead, but others need a good rest, too and won't be a part for most of the pre-season.

But for me the biggest worry for Arsenal this coming season it is going to be the PGMOL. I truly believe we will not see most of their shenanigans turn into goals again. This is were Arsenal will be hit the most.

4 minutes ago, petre ispirescu said:

Depends on how stubborn Arteta is. If he manages their minutes at the start of the season and rotates a lot from August mid October/early November, I think they will be fine. But at the same time they risk of having a slow start and not only Rice and Saliba look dead, but others need a good rest, too and won't be a part for most of the pre-season.

But for me the biggest worry for Arsenal this coming season it is going to be the PGMOL. I truly believe we will not see most of their shenanigans turn into goals again. This is were Arsenal will be hit the most.

Saliba going to be out for 4-5 months with surgery apparently.

So I've had time to calm down.

I suppose we all knew a game like this was coming when we saw the squad selection.

Bringing Henderson, Dan Burn and Ivan Toney (and not trusting any of them anyway - huh Mainoo?). Dead spots for a mix of pace and creativity : Foden, Palmer, Bowen, Gibbs White, Hall, Trent.. all sat at home.

We all knew a cowardly bus parking performance was on the cards. But why did it have to be? Why not just keep doing what you're doing with fresh legs??

No outball, 12 (TWELVE)% possession... This is amateur stuff.

If he doesn't own up to his mistake, sack him.

1 minute ago, GarnachoCheese said:

Saliba going to be out for 4-5 months with surgery apparently.

Well, watch them swoop in for Lacroix then.

5 minutes ago, BordeauxBlue said:

Well, watch them swoop in for Lacroix then.

After his showing against Spain they'd be doing us a favour. Lacroix worries me.

28 minutes ago, bluelightening said:

Ive consoled myself this morning. I woke up and remembered the UK owns the Falkland Islands and theyre worth more than Enzo Fernandez.

And the Belgrano is still where Argentina left it.

Get rid, like his chelsea side, we were aweful to watch, he was hired to get us over the line and he spectacularly f**ked it up last night, he failed to deliver and his decisions after going one nil up dont deserve to manage a national side, Spence has no business being in an international squad and nearly cost us several occassions last night. Why Take Saka and not use him, Gibbs White would have been made for last nights game retaining possession... Nah, Tuchel's done, find someone else and

Spence saved a very likely goal with one sensational tackle. Beyond that, he was no better or worse than the other defenders who struggled under non-stop quality presure.

Saka? Being nursed by Arsenal, was never fit enough to start which was known when he was selected. That's the issue. Ditto Rice, running on fumes for Arsenal when selected. And Reece, who was fit, technically speaking, but nursed by Chelsea. Tuchel said Reece's hamstring problem couldn't be foreseen. Blind Freddy says otherwise. Selecting his first choice options, regardless of fitness, was always going to be a problem.

15 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

After his showing against Spain they'd be doing us a favour. Lacroix worries me.

A second chance to watch him closely in the 3rd/4th play off against us, although if our attack play like they did against Argentina it might give a false impression of his ability LOL