I actually think TT sinks us, Kane said after seeing 3 defenders come on we were playing for the 1-0, or no-one told him the captain!

Personally I think we should have changed the front players and if flagging bring up the defenders to half-line to condense the pitch.

Instead it became like Custer's last stand.

It seems like the plan wasn't to sit back, but the players immediately did it after scoring and Argentina pushed forward so much, as it's just natural to drop deeper. And Tuchel wanted to try and stop all the crosses coming in by adding more width to the back line. Unfortunately he sacrificed the midfield for that, which meant they just had so much control they could just keep trying until it worked, and with no out ball because Kane and Bellingham were invisible all game, we couldn't get out.

8 minutes ago, Zeta said:

It seems like the plan wasn't to sit back, but the players immediately did it after scoring and Argentina pushed forward so much, as it's just natural to drop deeper. And Tuchel wanted to try and stop all the crosses coming in by adding more width to the back line. Unfortunately he sacrificed the midfield for that, which meant they just had so much control they could just keep trying until it worked, and with no out ball because Kane and Bellingham were invisible all game, we couldn't get out.

He brought on defenders and 3 of them, as Kane says he thought we were playing out for the 1-0 otherwise he replaces like for like, he did not do this.

Exceptional bad management both in substitutes and team communication.

43 minutes ago, GarnachoCheese said:

After his showing against Spain they'd be doing us a favour. Lacroix worries me.

I agree. He looked quite flat-footed and just not that great in general.

If we are going to throw any money at Palace, just make it for Adam Wharton.

2 hours ago, Nibs said:

I have always liked TT and do rate him as a top coach but boy did he f**k up and lose us that game last night. What happened after we went 1-0 was totally inexcusable. Such negative tactics that totally backfired and was Gareth Southgate level of coaching.

Also think Harry Kane needs to hang up his boots at international level. He might be a great goal scorer but he had another really poor tournament and at 33, his legs look gone at this level. Hate the fact he stays on when the side was crying out for someone who could actually run.

I really wanted to see Watkins run at them couldn't help but think TT wanted to keep Kane on for penalties.

I could not understand the Toney sub, a physical player perhaps ok for counter attack yet by then we were losing.

Argentina did their homework on us and stopped Bellingham and subdued Gordon, Rogers did well for the opening goal yet had not the trickery of a Saka.

To think we started with 4 midfielders, Bellingham, Rice, Anderson and Rogers the only one left was Henderson.

Argentina found another gear and we did not.

It will be interesting final against Spain.

Edited 4 hours ago4 hr by strider6004

Forgot Mainoo.......

Should never have defended a one goal lead. Defending a two goal lead with 25 minutes to go even risky given Argentinas comeback record.

That’s 12 World Cups I’ve seen us in now. Not one final reached.

Well as most people have pointed out Tuchels tactics didn't help but for the most part the players bottled it as they do every tournament. Too scared to play out or push up, always too scared to be the one that might make a mistake and be the next burning effigy. Even Cape Verde had a go. We're the Spurs of international football.

31 minutes ago, DarkMata said:

Well as most people have pointed out Tuchels tactics didn't help but for the most part the players bottled it as they do every tournament. Too scared to play out or push up, always too scared to be the one that might make a mistake and be the next burning effigy. Even Cape Verde had a go. We're the Spurs of international football.

Crikey. The blowtorch.

I think from the start there was just some baffling squad decisions.

Not taking one of Gibbs-White or Wharton but Jordan Henderson goes.

Not taking a Cole Palmer, Rio Ngumoha or Phil Foden, regardless of form when you know Saka isn’t fit and Madueke is starting games.

Then when Tino drops out, calling Trev up instead of giving Trent the nod. We know he’s a defensive liability but when you’re making the whole squad identity around set pieces having someone who excels in that area would’ve been ideal.

It just seems to be a squad picked with an extremely negative outlook.

Don’t have to deal with this International bo**ocks for another 2 years now thankfully. It’s far too stressful. Proper chance missed.

Yeah you can now be stressed watching Chelsea instead.

More importantly, Egnatia Rrogozhinë v Petrocub in the first round of Champions League qualifying finished 6-1 to Egnatia Rrogozhinë, 7-1 on aggregate. No dancing in the street of Hîncești.

All the UK sportswriters are asking do we stick with Gareth Tuchel, or do we move on.

2 hours ago, dermott said:

Spence saved a very likely goal with one sensational tackle. Beyond that, he was no better or worse than the other defenders who struggled under non-stop quality presure.

Saka? Being nursed by Arsenal, was never fit enough to start which was known when he was selected. That's the issue. Ditto Rice, running on fumes for Arsenal when selected. And Reece, who was fit, technically speaking, but nursed by Chelsea. Tuchel said Reece's hamstring problem couldn't be foreseen. Blind Freddy says otherwise. Selecting his first choice options, regardless of fitness, was always going to be a problem.

You dont take a player of Spence's ability to the World Cup if there are other players who are much better at the job available. Spence had to recover from his own mistake and giving the ball away to make that goal-saving tackle. He also was on the side that kept losing Messi in the second half. He's, at best, a dogsh*t player who has pace; that is it, he was abysmal for Spurs last season.

TBH, last night's performance didnt shock me, weve seen the best and worst of Tuchel at the bridge so last night's result wasnt suprising. you dont defend a game with a 1-0 lead for 30+ minutes.

1 hour ago, DarkMata said:

Well as most people have pointed out Tuchels tactics didn't help but for the most part the players bottled it as they do every tournament. Too scared to play out or push up, always too scared to be the one that might make a mistake and be the next burning effigy. Even Cape Verde had a go. We're the Spurs of international football.

when you have the massive bottle top Kane upfront. who has only won things in a one horse division, dont expect to win tournaments. Dont ever expect to win a tournament with a spurs right back in the starting line up. Best thing Delap could have done for England was to rule Spence out of the tournament, he even missed that opportunity.

4 hours ago, dkw said:

I dont like saying I told you so in these circumstances...but I f**king told you so.

Hes an incredible negative coach, he is more interested in not losing than winning, has no idea how to actually set up an attack and completely relies on solidity and deep defense.

Everyone could see from the Cape Verde and Egypt games that Argentina cant handle pace running at them, they had 2 cb`s on yellow cards and we were all over them out wide. 

So after we score what does the tactical genius too, pull everyone deep, bring the wide players in side to cover midfield, then take them off for defenders. We had zero outlets, if we did get the ball then there was literally no one up field to get the ball to, the argies were wide open to counters with some pace, like say a Gordon type player, oh wait, hes been subbed for f**king Konsa.

Hes a fraud of a manager living on digging a CL win out with Chelsea by doing exactly the same thing he tried last night and v Mexico and Norway. Nick a goal, scrap to the end.

Think you nailed it with the negativity in his coaching. I recall far too many times at Chelsea we started with 7-8 defensive minded players. He didn’t start this way, but the more time he spent with us the more he seemed to retract.

Some bad tactical decisions and the wrong personnel to call upon. It wasn’t if they scored, but when.

The tactics in the final quarter were flawed, inviting the disaster which inevitably followed, we needed to be braver...

20 minutes ago, The Boehly Babes said:

I think from the start there was just some baffling squad decisions.

Not taking one of Gibbs-White or Wharton but Jordan Henderson goes.

Not taking a Cole Palmer, Rio Ngumoha or Phil Foden, regardless of form when you know Saka isn’t fit and Madueke is starting games.

Then when Tino drops out, calling Trev up instead of giving Trent the nod. We know he’s a defensive liability but when you’re making the whole squad identity around set pieces having someone who excels in that area would’ve been ideal.

It just seems to be a squad picked with an extremely negative outlook.

Don’t have to deal with this International bo**ocks for another 2 years now thankfully. It’s far too stressful. Proper chance missed.

Could have been worse. We should be thankful he didn't bring Raheem Sterling and Eric Dier.

17 minutes ago, just said:

Could have been worse. We should be thankful he didn't bring Raheem Sterling and Eric Dier.

Or Nobby Stiles.

Dont know how anyone can claim he made the right decisions with the squad, thats partially the reason weve struggled in the last 2 games.

Quansah instead of TAA, Hall or Shaw

Madueke instead of Foden 

Henderson instead of Gibbs White or Wharton (the worst one of all)

Toney instead of anyone else

Last night as we were losing control he had nothing to do to change it, he sat and watched it all happen with zero input into stopping it other than to get our team to drop deeper and deeper, and become more compact.

Having someone like Gibbs White to run with the ball, Foden to take control and either make space or draw a foul, Hall on for an exhausted Spence, someone other than Toney to give us a target. He f**ked the squad up massively, highlighted perfectly by the balls up at right back, took 2 injury prone ones who then got injured (surprisingly to him), then replaced them with a CB who never got a single minute of game time.

And last night just reminded me why I feel it is totally wrong for a foreigner to manage an international side. Any internatoinal side should only be managed by a coach of that nationality - it's just wrong otherwise.

At least when Southgate f**ked up, we had to take it on the chin and accept it. But last night just doesn't sit right and any conspiracy theorists will be having a field day. TT takes his £8m a year or whatever it is and then when the FA question him on why he did what he did last night with subs and tactic etc, he can just shrug and say "yeah, my bad, I got it wrong".

Just imagine if that had happened last night but instead of Argentina the opponents had been Germany and the same outcome. I for one would be thinking Hmmm, hang on a minute......!!"

I am surprised to see so many ex players and ex managers blaming Tuchel for this result. They of all people should know it's not easy to change players mentality once they have already decided to sit back and defend for whatever reason.

Players were all gassed, clear as day to see, so after we scored the players retreated and sat back. This wasn't an instruction from Tuchel evident by the fact that he kept the same system. If he wanted us to defend straight after he would have changed it straight away.

I blame him for keeping Kane on even when he was clearly gone which resulted in us having no out ball but everything else was in response to what the players had already been doing.

14 minutes ago, Nibs said:

And last night just reminded me why I feel it is totally wrong for a foreigner to manage an international side. Any internatoinal side should only be managed by a coach of that nationality - it's just wrong otherwise.

It's interesting how every World Cup winning manager is a home grown.

A foreign manager has never won a World Cup before. There's something in that I suspect.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Jezz

4 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I am surprised to see so many ex players and ex managers blaming Tuchel for this result. They of all people should know it's not easy to change players mentality once they have already decided to sit back and defend for whatever reason.

Players were all gassed, clear as day to see, so after we scored the players retreated and sat back. This wasn't an instruction from Tuchel evident by the fact that he kept the same system. If he wanted us to defend straight after he would have changed it straight away.

I blame him for keeping Kane on even when he was clearly gone which resulted in us having no out ball but everything else was in response to what the players had already been doing.

My personal favorite was Gary Neville complaining why Tuchel didn’t have anyone man marking Messi.

As if no manager in the last 20 years hasn’t tried that. Messi also scored a hattrick against Neville’s Valencia. Why did he have anyone man marking him?

4 hours ago, Remodez said:

Result was disappointing of course but I don't believe Tuchel told them to sit after scoring.

Virtually every player in midfield was gassed. You could see it. Kane was done by the 50-60th min. Unless you replace most of the midfield and Kane with subs its gonna be extremely difficult to go against the natural instinct to sit deep. He went for the most logical option given what was available which is an extra defender seeing as the team had already decided to sit back.

The part where he made a mistake in my opinion was not taking off a clearly gassed Kane off for fresh legs on counter.

Agreed on Kane, but we could all see that players like Kane and Rice were gassed. Yet he made only one sub until the 82nd minute and that was in the 72nd minute to bring out one of our better attacking outlets in Gordon and replace with Konsa. Made no sense as it allowed Argentina to continue subbing defensive players for attackers and continue upping the pressure on us.

We could have brought on Watkins or Toney for Kane and we had Mainoo/Eze as midfield options. We also had Rashford as a direct option to swap for Gordon if he needed a sub. Saka could have been used on the right. It wasn't just not bringing off Kane that was a problem. It was entire game management after scoring.