Not the same type of player but Toni Kroos has been the best central midfield player in the world for a few years for mine.  Guys f**ked

14 minutes ago, Remodez said:

I wouldn't expect Cole to say anything else. Hazard is in a different league in terms of output and consistency but skill wise, they are the same in my opinion.

Maybe but it works both ways, recency bias is a thing after all. 

I agree with you Remodez. It is all too easy to forget just how good Joe Cole was at his peak. Under Mourinho, as much as many will argue that he was improved as an all-round player, he was never allowed the luxury of really getting a free-role No.10 slot like Hazard does. Constantly being berated from the touch line for not tracking back or over-doing the show-boating! Joey had unbelievable natural skill and could go past players for fun. Hazard is quicker, but in terms of ball-skill, there isn't a huge deal between them (at their peak). I wouldn't say that Joey lacked confidence, but I think his confidence must have been effected how he was in & out of the team at times and he appeared happy to play second fiddle to the "bigger personalities" in the side - Lamps, Essien etc. But on his day he was just as important and won us many matches.

 

 

I remember that^

"Start the party now"

1 hour ago, Michael said:

I'm counting a position in its simplest form, i.e keepers, defenders, midfielders, forwards.  I see your point though, you could technically have world class players for CB's, RB's, LB's, DMF's, CMF's, AMF's, RWF's, LWF's, CF's etc.

I wouldn’t go as far as every individual position but I see your point and that still wouldn’t make Hazard world class because as attacking midfielders go there is Ronaldo, Messi and Neymar. Forwards for me would be Lewandowski and Suarez, midfielders would be players like KDB and Kroos. 

Best player for Chelsea for me is Frankie Lampard. 

He consistently delivered in his time at the club and is the greatest goal scoring midfielder in the modern era of football, we owe so much of our recent success to him. 

Close second would be JT. He was phenomenal defensively... There was a 5/6 year period where he was untouchable as a player. 

Most gifted player is probably Zola, he had tricks and flicks but also incredible vision, some of the passes/assists he pulled out the bag were amazing and he wasn't too shabby at set pieces either! Hazard's not far behind him but I can't help shaking that for all Hazard's talent and skill he doesn't score anywhere near the number goals I think he's capable of.  

1 hour ago, Odiddy said:

really? REALLLLYYYY?

incomparable imo...Even Joe Cole himself said Hazard is in a different league. 

Zola was great but he was in a much inferior team and stood out for that reason - i don't think he was ever the best player in the PL at any one time (unlike Hazard) . I think people tend to romanticise over him because he's a club legend.   

Can see similaritys between Cole and Hazard, but Hazard a consistent match winner whereas with Cole it was a little more hit and miss.

Regarding Zola, fantastic player as he was ( the most two footed player I've seen in a Chelsea shirt), he did get muscled out on occasions. I went to one of the last games played at Maine Road and he didn't get a sniff. A couple of people around me reckoned he'd got sussed out slightly- double up marking etc, and by his lofty standards didn't have his best season.

Delighted to say he was back to his finest the next year, and could have been part of the Roman set up but had pledged to return to Sardinia.

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

I got some funny looks for comparing Hazard to Joe Cole so glad I'm not the only. To me they are the same, only difference is Cole had injury problems.

Zola for me is still the best technical footballer we've had. 

So your ignoring Super Dan Petrescu then.......how very dare you...

1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Best player for Chelsea for me is Frankie Lampard. 

He consistently delivered in his time at the club and is the greatest goal scoring midfielder in the modern era of football, we owe so much of our recent success to him. 

Close second would be JT. He was phenomenal defensively... There was a 5/6 year period where he was untouchable as a player. 

Most gifted player is probably Zola, he had tricks and flicks but also incredible vision, some of the passes/assists he pulled out the bag were amazing and he wasn't too shabby at set pieces either! Hazard's not far behind him but I can't help shaking that for all Hazard's talent and skill he doesn't score anywhere near the number goals I think he's capable of.  

But when you watch the post-match interview with Hazard after Brighton game you understand what he is all about. He loves playing football but loves playing it the RIGHT way. He clearly gets as much enjoyment from being part of a team scoring a goal like Willian's v Brighton as he does from scoring a goal himself. He would rather contribute in HIS way than at the end of the season say "look at all the goals I've scored". 

Think we just have to accept him for what he is and be grateful for it. Sure, it would be great if he scored more goals, but at the end of the day, he isn't a striker and I'd rather the goals were shared throughout the team and he continues to do his thing and ties defenders in knots on a regular basis.

58 minutes ago, Nibs said:

But when you watch the post-match interview with Hazard after Brighton game you understand what he is all about. He loves playing football but loves playing it the RIGHT way. He clearly gets as much enjoyment from being part of a team scoring a goal like Willian's v Brighton as he does from scoring a goal himself. He would rather contribute in HIS way than at the end of the season say "look at all the goals I've scored". 

Think we just have to accept him for what he is and be grateful for it. Sure, it would be great if he scored more goals, but at the end of the day, he isn't a striker and I'd rather the goals were shared throughout the team and he continues to do his thing and ties defenders in knots on a regular basis.

When he plays like he did in the Brighton game I'm all for it. 

But coming off the back of 5 consecutive draws and we're struggling for goals and Eden had one goal in two months from a penalty I want him to use his undeniable talent and dig us out of a funk. 

It's all well and good wanting to play neat passing triangles but sometimes defences set up so deep and narrow we try and play through the eye of a needle when what we need is for someone to welly it in from 25 yards out. 

Hazard's got the tools to shoulder that responsibility himself but sometimes seems almost reluctant to say "leave it to me lads". It's like I'm surprised he never takes any free kicks, surely someone of his talent has developed a wicked free kick? But he's happy to pass that burden onto others.

7 hours ago, Nibs said:

All depends what we all mean by "best footballer we've ever had".

Lamps is a club legend and an unbelievable goal-scorer but he wasn't a naturally gifted and skillful player like Hazard. He scored some absolutely brilliant goals but he could never do some of the things that Hazard is capable of.

For me, Hazard is the best, most naturally gifted footballer we have had to date - not by a country mile though as the likes of Zola & Joey Cole had that similar skill-set.

I tend to think of end product and winning things, more an all round. I think Zola was just as skilful as Hazard if not more so. Just wish we got him a few years earlier.

Frank get's little plaudits for his football ability in terms of general play. He didn't need to do fancy tricks or rabona's and doing the basics right made him one of if not the greatest goal scoring midfielders the country has ever seen.

His chip against Barca showed what he had in him, I doubt Hazard would have scored a goal like that.

I love Eden but he's too cautions and too often has the look of he's holding back to ever be classed as one of the best players in the world for me.  

 

 

10 minutes ago, Chelsbear said:

I tend to think of end product and winning things, more an all round. I think Zola was just as skilful as Hazard if not more so. Just wish we got him a few years earlier.

Frank get's little plaudits for his football ability in terms of general play. He didn't need to do fancy tricks or rabona's and doing the basics right made him one of if not the greatest goal scoring midfielders the country has ever seen.

His chip against Barca showed what he had in him, I doubt Hazard would have scored a goal like that.

I love Eden but he's too cautions and too often has the look of he's holding back to ever be classed as one of the best players in the world for me.  

 

 

True, just as Lamps wouldn't have been capable of scoring the goal Hazard did against Arsenal last season.

 

5 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

World Class gets branded round too much and only Messi, Ronaldo and Neymar are world class. Hazard is top class and in the group below.

Hazard has never scored over 20 goals in a season for Chelsea even being penalty taker, Salah did that in his first season by December. 

Strange reason for saying he isn't world class. Fair enough if you don't think he's world class but to use goals and Salah (lol) as your reason why is worrying.

Ribery has never hit over 20 goals ever in his entire career yet at the start of this decade (2012ish) he was one of the best players in the world and won the UEFA best player in Europe award. 

Comparing Hazard and Salah's goal returns is very irrelevant. Hazard is a creator and controls an entire game, Salah is nothing more than a finisher. 

9 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Strange reason for saying he isn't world class. Fair enough if you don't think he's world class but to use goals and Salah (lol) as your reason why is worrying.

Ribery has never hit over 20 goals ever in his entire career yet at the start of this decade (2012ish) he was one of the best players in the world and won the UEFA best player in Europe award. 

Comparing Hazard and Salah's goal returns is very irrelevant. Hazard is a creator and controls an entire game, Salah is nothing more than a finisher. 

Hazard's goal stats make the difference IMO between him being world class and not, it's not really worrying when many people say the same. Ronaldo not even at his peak hit 42 goals in a season at Utd, that's World class. Hazard plays as forward like Salah without defensive duties and really should be hitting over 20 goals a season. 

Even though the German league has 18 teams, Ribery rarely got into the high twenties and never into the 30's for appearances, was he penalty taker? Going back through Hazard stats and he has played 38 and 36 games, with the lowest being 31 while being penalty taker, this is just the league alone.

Lets see how he plays against Barca, the big players step up.

26 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Hazard's goal stats make the difference IMO between him being world class and not, it's not really worrying when many people say the same. Ronaldo not even at his peak hit 42 goals in a season at Utd, that's World class. Hazard plays as forward like Salah without defensive duties and really should be hitting over 20 goals a season. 

Even though the German league has 18 teams, Ribery rarely got into the high twenties and never into the 30's for appearances, was he penalty taker? Going back through Hazard stats and he has played 38 and 36 games, with the lowest being 31 while being penalty taker, this is just the league alone.

Lets see how he plays against Barca, the big players step up.

Of course Hazard is World Class. That's why Madrid are being linked with him and will have to part with HUGE amounts of cash to actually get him.

We all agree we would like him to score more goals and he should score more goals but that doesn't stop him being world class. It stops him from currently being at the level of Messi and Ronaldo (who is in decline) but the majority would agree he is still world class.

Hazard has won plenty of big games for us. Don't want to jinx things but we all know Messi has never "stepped-up" against us!

35 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Hazard's goal stats make the difference IMO between him being world class and not, it's not really worrying when many people say the same. Ronaldo not even at his peak hit 42 goals in a season at Utd, that's World class. Hazard plays as forward like Salah without defensive duties and really should be hitting over 20 goals a season. 

Even though the German league has 18 teams, Ribery rarely got into the high twenties and never into the 30's for appearances, was he penalty taker? Going back through Hazard stats and he has played 38 and 36 games, with the lowest being 31 while being penalty taker, this is just the league alone.

Lets see how he plays against Barca, the big players step up.

I feel like he’s going to shred Barca, and have them spinning in circles.  Messi may do the same to us, should be entertaining to say the least.

13 minutes ago, Nibs said:

Of course Hazard is World Class. That's why Madrid are being linked with him and will have to part with HUGE amounts of cash to actually get him.

We all agree we would like him to score more goals and he should score more goals but that doesn't stop him being world class. It stops him from currently being at the level of Messi and Ronaldo (who is in decline) but the majority would agree he is still world class.

Hazard has won plenty of big games for us. Don't want to jinx things but we all know Messi has never "stepped-up" against us!

Messi struggled to step up because he played a Chelsea team which was like a machine and the only one at the time i feel could compete with Barca apart from 2012 which was a different team.

Stepped up in the FA cup final last year, i can't really remember Hazard stepping up in a champions league knockout game like Ronaldo, Messi, Neymar or even Bale. I could never see Hazard doing what Neymar did in the champions league against PSG, that's why i don't think his world class but i also see world class as a very few select players.

Anyway Hazard is 27 and can still move onto the next level because i feel he can reach more. I don't think it helps that he has been playing with mainly defensive managers since he has been at Chelsea.

Edited January 23, 20188 yr by Ernie_blue

Joe Cole was a fantastic player, capable of sheer brilliance, but I would put hazard ahead of him all day. 

In Cole's best season 07/08 where he was voted our poty, he wasn't at the level of hazard at his best, and that was before he started getting knee injuries.

Lampard has to be our greatest player, due to consistency, he was pretty much always one of the best players on the pitch, for 8/9 years. JT comes a close second for that same reason, and Drogba comes 3rd, as although he had some iffy patches, he showed up for the big games more than any player I've seen.

In terms of natural ability, I don't think there's much to choose between hazard and zola, both players keep you on the edge of your seat, and both have incredible technique and creativity. 

I feel like hazard needs some big performances in cup finals to really cement his status here, lamps, drogba, Zola, all had big moment in finals, that will live long in the memory, I think hazard needs a couple of those to complete his legacy here. 

48 minutes ago, Nibs said:

 but we all know Messi has never "stepped-up" against us!

Really!!!! When he was 17, and yes that was Robben made to look a clown

 

Edited January 23, 20188 yr by Coral Snake

2 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

Hazard's goal stats make the difference IMO between him being world class and not, it's not really worrying when many people say the same. Ronaldo not even at his peak hit 42 goals in a season at Utd, that's World class. Hazard plays as forward like Salah without defensive duties and really should be hitting over 20 goals a season. 

Even though the German league has 18 teams, Ribery rarely got into the high twenties and never into the 30's for appearances, was he penalty taker? Going back through Hazard stats and he has played 38 and 36 games, with the lowest being 31 while being penalty taker, this is just the league alone.

Lets see how he plays against Barca, the big players step up.

Take Ronaldo and Messi out of the equation as they're unattainable heights to reach and its unlikely there will ever be players at their level again. Hazard plays in an attacking role as a creator, Salah plays as a forward in a completely different system. When you look at heat maps you see that Hazard ends up playing deeper than most of out CM's a lot of the time as he comes deep to pick the ball up. Its like moaning at Figo for not hitting more than 14 goals in a season.

35 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Take Ronaldo and Messi out of the equation as they're unattainable heights to reach and its unlikely there will ever be players at their level again. Hazard plays in an attacking role as a creator, Salah plays as a forward in a completely different system. When you look at heat maps you see that Hazard ends up playing deeper than most of out CM's a lot of the time as he comes deep to pick the ball up. Its like moaning at Figo for not hitting more than 14 goals in a season.

I just don't think Hazard is world class, never done it in the European Cup and wasn't around for the FA Cup final, world class players live for the big games. Drogba was there to be counted on numerous occasions. I would say Neymar is above Hazard's as well, just my opinion though.

25 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I just don't think Hazard is world class, never done it in the European Cup and wasn't around for the FA Cup final, world class players live for the big games. Drogba was there to be counted on numerous occasions. I would say Neymar is above Hazard's as well, just my opinion though.

Funny for me just now, Ronaldo on the decline and Messi now 30 it is interesting to look at the next top players.

For me Suarez, Neymar, Hazard, Kane and probably more though I'm struggling. 

46 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

I just don't think Hazard is world class, never done it in the European Cup and wasn't around for the FA Cup final, world class players live for the big games. Drogba was there to be counted on numerous occasions. I would say Neymar is above Hazard's as well, just my opinion though.

you're more than entitled to your incorrect opinion

12 hours ago, Nibs said:

All depends what we all mean by "best footballer we've ever had".

Lamps is a club legend and an unbelievable goal-scorer but he wasn't a naturally gifted and skillful player like Hazard. He scored some absolutely brilliant goals but he could never do some of the things that Hazard is capable of.

For me, Hazard is the best, most naturally gifted footballer we have had to date - not by a country mile though as the likes of Zola & Joey Cole had that similar skill-set.

But at the same time, i don't think Hazard could do some of the things Lampard could do. Lampard was a better passer and finisher than Hazard, he was also better defensively, better at taking corners, his movement was better, he had better intelligence, he read the game better (i remember plenty of times how often Lampard was praised for playing the game with his eyes) 

Hazard has only has a few things about his game that are better than Lampard. Ball control, speed and dribbling.

Lampard had a better shot, great timed runs into attacking positions and a great passer. Yet I don't think Frank could have dribbled around two players like Hazard does.