13 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

RLC was already first team quality. He just needed minutes to show what he was capable of. 

And the only way to get those minutes...

23 minutes ago, benjsross said:

And the only way to get those minutes...

By Conte or previously Mourinho/Guus giving him real game time. He's behind in his development because of these three.

So three of the top managers in European football think Ruben wasn't up to the job totally yet, but you know better, is that right?  You spend much time taking first team training sessions over the last four years or so?

4 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

So three of the top managers in European football think Ruben wasn't up to the job totally yet, but you know better, is that right?  You spend much time taking first team training sessions over the last four years or so?

You mean the same manager that deemed KdB, Lukaku and Salah not up to the job yet? Yeah, i don't really need to say much more about his eye for youth development. 

Another manager that was brought in to steady a sinking ship. His hand was forced in playing Mikel to stop shipping goals. 

And Conte, who moans about our forwards not scoring enough yet shipped out Batshuayi who now sits on 19 goals for the season. The same Conte that tried to stick Ruben at ST and is too stubborn to try new players. 

 

You do realise managers make mistakes don't you? RLC bossed an incredible Liverpool on his debut then barely gets used again. I'm just glad RLC is proving everyone wrong this year for both club and country.

 

inb4; DKW likes any post you direct at me on this thread. 

Yep, I can see your point if it was just Mourinho, given your proven antipathy to the man and all  of his achievements in four major European leagues, but it wasn't just him, was it?  You can put any sort of spin on the tenures of the three managers you mention that you like, but an alternative representation of your points above are

Mourinho, the manager who correctly deemed Salah to not be in the top 5 of the 5 wingers we had at the time so let him leave on loan, and who wouldn't guarantee first team football to a teenage Lukaku, and had a low (arguable in hindsight) opinion of KdB as he was at the time?

Guus Hiddinck, a first-class manager with decades of experience and football knowledge (snide Mikel digs don't do you any favours either), and

Conte, who sent out on loan  two players, one of whom was a pub level striker in most games he played for Chelsea because he didn't have the ability or whatever it is that's required to fit into the system that the team played to win the league at a canter the previous season, and another that was theoretically so far down the pecking order of midfielders that he couldn't be guaranteed match time,  and also appeared to  need to increase his stamina and work rate on loan.  (I must say here that I don't necessarily disagree with you about Ruben and his abilities, but I do disagree that he was obviously first team level given what we thought we were getting in Bakayoko and the revitalised Kante/Drinkwater partnership)

But, saying he "bossed an incredible Liverpool"  doesn't really mean anything, does it? ( I also dispute that Liverpool were "incredible")  Even Frank Sinclair had a man of the match performance once or twice.   And he's having an OK season for Palace (RLC not Frank) but playing well for Palace ain't the same as playing well for a top side.  I hope he comes back and establishes himself,  makes himself undroppable, but, if he doesn't, it won't be because selected managers ruined his career.  If he's good enough,  he'll have a career, if he's not, he won't.  He could be another KdB or he could be another Sam della Bona or Josh McCreachan.

Edited May 2, 20188 yr by yorkleyblue
spelling

54 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

You mean the same manager that deemed KdB, Lukaku and Salah not up to the job yet? Yeah, i don't really need to say much more about his eye for youth development. 

Another manager that was brought in to steady a sinking ship. His hand was forced in playing Mikel to stop shipping goals. 

And Conte, who moans about our forwards not scoring enough yet shipped out Batshuayi who now sits on 19 goals for the season. The same Conte that tried to stick Ruben at ST and is too stubborn to try new players. 

 

You do realise managers make mistakes don't you? RLC bossed an incredible Liverpool on his debut then barely gets used again. I'm just glad RLC is proving everyone wrong this year for both club and country.

 

inb4; DKW likes any post you direct at me on this thread. 

What the f**k does it have to do with you what I like or don't like you tedious f**kwit. 

4 minutes ago, dkw said:

What the f**k does it have to do with you what I like or don't like you tedious f**kwit. 

Is it that time of the month? Never said anything was wrong with it, just very obvious. Straight in with the insults though i see, says an awful lot about your character. 

33 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Yep, I can see your point if it was just Mourinho, given your proven antipathy to the man and all  of his achievements in four major European leagues, but it wasn't just him, was it?  You can put any sort of spin on the tenures of the three managers you mention that you like, but an alternative representation of your points above are

Mourinho, the manager who correctly deemed Salah to not be in the top 5 of the 5 wingers we had at the time so let him leave on loan, and who wouldn't guarantee first team football to a teenage Lukaku, and had a low (arguable in hindsight) opinion of KdB as he was at the time? Salah i can accept but Lukaku got shipped out in favour of Eto'o and KdB had bags of talent everywhere he had been. Mourinho just didn't trust youth.Same story everywhere he goes.

Guus Hiddinck, a first-class manager with decades of experience and football knowledge (snide Mikel digs don't do you any favours either), and Not sure how you managed to take that as a dig at Mikel, i was complimenting his defending. I was a big Mikel supporter on here and throughout his time with us. Point still stands he had to play him to sure up our defense. 

Conte, who sent out on loan  two players, one of whom was a pub level striker in most games he played for Chelsea because he didn't have the ability or whatever it is that's required to fit into the system that the team played to win the league at a canter the previous season, and another that was theoretically so far down the pecking order of midfielders that he couldn't be guaranteed match time,  and also appeared to  need to increase his stamina and work rate on loan.  (I must say here that I don't necessarily disagree with you about Ruben and his abilities, but I do disagree that he was obviously first team level given what we thought we were getting in Bakayoko and the revitalised Kante/Drinkwater partnership) He may not have fit into his plans but i'd put money on if he had been given Morata's game time he would have scored a hell of a lot more goals than Morata this year for Chelsea. The work rate is the biggest myth around RLC.

But, saying he "bossed an incredible Liverpool"  doesn't really mean anything, does it? ( I also dispute that Liverpool were "incredible")  Even Frank Sinclair had a man of the match performance once or twice.   And he's having an OK season for Palace (RLC not Frank) but playing well for Palace ain't the same as playing well for a top side.  I hope he comes back and establishes himself,  makes himself undroppable, but, if he doesn't, it won't be because selected managers ruined his career.  If he's good enough,  he'll have a career, if he's not, he won't.  He could be another KdB or he could be another Sam della Bona or Josh McCreachan. I fear it may be getting close to too little too late for RLC. At most other teams and in most leagues he would have had 100+ apps to his name by now. Saw a great article going into depth about this in regards to Chelsea managing youth, i'll post it on here tonight. Proper good read.

 

The customary off-season falling out starts early this year 

19 hours ago, benjsross said:

RLC needed the season away to be first team quality for us.

Keeping RLC, IMO, would have saved the club some 30m in signing a bang avergae player with no redeemable quality in Drinkwater. Sure he won the title but he was paired with Kante and played long balls into the channels for Vardy to chase down.

RLC would have been more useful for us this season than Drinkwater and probably Bakayoko.

Put it this way, if RLC had the season Bakayoko had at Monaco, we'd probably have bought him for 40m.

Theres a good player waiting to get out and if he can shine and get good reviews at Palace surrounded by dross, throw him into our side and he should be more than capable, he needs a manager to trust him and not drop him after one poor display because we have 10m worth of CMs in Baka, Cesc and Drinkwater ready to take his aplce, neither of those 3 fill me with any confidence at the moment for various reasons, Cesc is getting too old and rarely controls a game, Drinkwater was never good enough for us but hes English so was signed, Bakayoko is a mystery, quality at Monaco, dire in about 95% of the games hes played for us.

RLC cant be any worse than what we already ahve.

2 hours ago, Delnino said:

Keeping RLC, IMO, would have saved the club some 30m in signing a bang avergae player with no redeemable quality in Drinkwater. Sure he won the title but he was paired with Kante and played long balls into the channels for Vardy to chase down.

 RLC would have been more useful for us this season than Drinkwater and probably Bakayoko.

 Put it this way, if RLC had the season Bakayoko had at Monaco, we'd probably have bought him for 40m.

 Theres a good player waiting to get out and if he can shine and get good reviews at Palace surrounded by dross, throw him into our side and he should be more than capable, he needs a manager to trust him and not drop him after one poor display because we have 10m worth of CMs in Baka, Cesc and Drinkwater ready to take his aplce, neither of those 3 fill me with any confidence at the moment for various reasons, Cesc is getting too old and rarely controls a game, Drinkwater was never good enough for us but hes English so was signed, Bakayoko is a mystery, quality at Monaco, dire in about 95% of the games hes played for us.

 RLC cant be any worse than what we already ahve.

And if he had stayed, he wouldnt have got the game time to show what he can do. So its irrelevant. He would have been as useful as DD - a decent player who didnt get a chance because Conte persisted with Bakayoko. He'd have then pushed for a transfer in the summer coming and we'd have let him go. 

We sent him on loan to be a better player. That worked. Now we can bring him back and put him in the first team / genuine fringes. 

Personally, I'm still not convinced he will make it at Chelsea, hope I am wrong as he does not nail down a clear position. I think he also might be one of those that is injured periodically too.

5 hours ago, Strider6003 said:

Personally, I'm still not convinced he will make it at Chelsea, hope I am wrong as he does not nail down a clear position. I think he also might be one of those that is injured periodically too.

Same here, id love to be proved wrong, but i just don't see it!!!

Another assist today; could have hidden after being responsible for the goal they conceded.

Had a good game despite his mistake. One thighs he needs to improve on is his shooting/finishing. At Chelsea it looked good but it's a real weakness this season. If he improves that then he will be a real top quality player. 

1 minute ago, Total-Football said:

 If he improves that then he will be a real top quality player. 

Ultimately that requires talent, you can't coach it. Didn't see it at youth level and don't think he'll ever have it tbh.

1 minute ago, the special one said:

Ultimately that requires talent, you can't coach it. Didn't see it at youth level and don't think he'll ever have it tbh.

I don't buy that. Lots of players have improved their shooting exponentially. Coutinho at Liverpool, Salah has hugely improved his finishing, Kante for us has improved and even Ronaldo massively improved his shooting/finishing at this age. 

48 minutes ago, the special one said:

Ultimately that requires talent, you can't coach it. Didn't see it at youth level and don't think he'll ever have it tbh.

Agreed that he's never shown exceptional finishing ability throughout youth level or in professional football, but then neither has Iniesta. If he becomes as dominant in other areas of the game as I think he can become it won't matter, as long as we have a midfielder in the team with that finishing ability. 

I think he’ll stay next season, whether he plays week in, week out, I’m not sure, but I’d be surprised if he wasn’t a part of the team. Probably the only current loannee who will be, I think we’ll sell Ginkel, loan Mount.

Edited May 5, 20188 yr by Floyd25

28 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

I think he’ll stay next season, whether he plays week in, week out, I’m not sure, but I’d be surprised if he wasn’t a part of the team. Probably the only current loannee who will be, I think we’ll sell Ginkel, loan Mount.

For me he'd be good fit if we were to play 4-4-2 with someone like Simeone as manager, i.e. he'd be ideal at LM playing in the same position as he does for Palace, but having said that there are better players out there for that position like Lozano/Bailey/Campos. He's on the fringe of the England squad so I can't see him settling for a bit part role next season and I don't think his output this season justifies playing in the starting XI - I'd be surprised if he's in the squad next season. I'd say another year at Palace is probably the best option for him.

Edited May 5, 20188 yr by the special one

30 minutes ago, the special one said:

For me he'd be good fit if we were to play 4-4-2 with someone like Simeone as manager, i.e. he'd be ideal at LM playing in the same position as he does for Palace, but having said that there are better players out there for that position like Lozano/Bailey. He's on the fringe of the England squad so I can't see him settling for a bit part role next season and I don't think his output this season justifies playing in the starting XI - I'd be surprised if he's in the squad next season. I'd say another year at Palace is probably the best option for him.

We have to wait and see, we don’t know who the manager will be or what formation we’ll utilise, as you say. If we’re playing in the Europa league next season, we’ll need strength in depth, not saying he’ll settle for a bit part role, but with a fair amount of possible rotation, he could be swayed. He’s had a good spell this season, so let’s wait and see how he does in pre-season, because he’ll surlely be involved and playing, if he impresses the boss, I think he’ll stick around.

Edited May 5, 20188 yr by Floyd25

1 hour ago, DidierDidier said:

he's never shown exceptional finishing ability throughout youth level or in professional football

True, but Conte thought he was a striker for some reason.

Fabregas - 2 goals, 4 assists, 5 yellow cards, 1 red card. 23 starts in 30 games, 2129 minutes played.

RLC - 2 goals, 3 assists, 1 yellow card. 20 starts in 23 games, 1785 minutes played. 

 

 

Nice assist from him last night even if he was also responsible for Stokes goal by fouling on the edge of the box and then not jumping in the wall. 

20 hours ago, the special one said:

Ultimately that requires talent, you can't coach it. Didn't see it at youth level and don't think he'll ever have it tbh.

Doesn't necessarily need to be hitting 10+ goals a season when he contributes in other ways. The link between defence - attack. He's been doing this at every level:

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 20188 yr by RIP Mourinho