How many of those away wins were against teams in the bottom five?

 

How many were against ten men?

 

I'm not trying to have a pop at Guus because he's got the same limitations that Jose had, but rather than sticking to the superficial talking points isn't it useful to actually look at the quality of opposition that we faced? Or is that unimportant?

It became unimportant the moment we lost to a 2/3rd string Bournemouth team. The worst result and performance of the season for me.

Interpret that as you'd like.

 

Jose was sh*t this season and Gus has come in and done much better ... :)

When we lost 9 of the first 16 games this PL season, and then none of the next 15, I find it very amusing that people still try to argue that nothing has changed ...

When we lost 9 of the first 16 games this PL season, and then none of the next 15, I find it very amusing that people still try to argue that nothing has changed ...

 

No-one is doing that though. The only thing I'm saying is that the level of opponent should surely be a consideration when looking at our recent run. 

 

Here's an example.

 

Jose is more rubbisher because he lost 4 games out of his last 7 at home, whereas Guus is much betterer because he is unbeaten in 7.

 

On the surface it's clear that Guus is a massive upgrade, yes?

 

But the reality is that in those games both coaches got 9 points playing against roughly similar opponents. So where's the change?

 

My argument is against this notion that we're a different team and we're not. Things haven't really changed a great deal and to believe otherwise is dangerous. 

Edited April 3, 201610 yr by ShedEnder91

No-one is doing that though. The only thing I'm saying is that the level of opponent should surely be a consideration when looking at our recent run. 

 

Here's an example.

 

Jose is more rubbisher because he lost 4 games out of his last 7 at home, whereas Guus is much betterer because he is unbeaten in 7.

 

On the surface it's clear that Guus is a massive upgrade, yes?

 

But the reality is that in those games both coaches got 9 points playing against roughly similar opponents. So where's the change?

 

My argument is against this notion that we're a different team and we're not. Things haven't really changed a great deal and to believe otherwise is dangerous. 

There is a slight difference between the 2 though, firstly the confidence gained from being unbeaten, but also it will force teams to play us with a different mentality and outlook, for example under Jose teams were coming here with no fear knowing they could get something out of the game now we look like a much harder opposition to face and teams will quite rightly be more wary.

Yes quite rightly you have pointed out that points wise we would have been no better off but you would expect it to have a positive effect on the games to come. 

Edited April 3, 201610 yr by PedroMendez

Actually, if we disregard Jose's 9 losses, he was also unbeaten with 4 wins and 3 draws ...

No-one is doing that though. The only thing I'm saying is that the level of opponent should surely be a consideration when looking at our recent run. 

 

Here's an example.

 

Jose is more rubbisher because he lost 4 games out of his last 7 at home, whereas Guus is much betterer because he is unbeaten in 7.

 

On the surface it's clear that Guus is a massive upgrade, yes?

 

But the reality is that in those games both coaches got 9 points playing against roughly similar opponents. So where's the change?

 

My argument is against this notion that we're a different team and we're not. Things haven't really changed a great deal and to believe otherwise is dangerous. 

 

On the last statement surely nobody is silly enough to believe that? and even worse if the board does, I believe that under guus, like you say playing more conservatively we have shored up and started doing the basics better again but that by know means means that the squad doesnt need surgery on it over the next few summers shaped by the new guy (conte?) and not the board/emanelo, the main point that needs addressing is the size of our squad and from that point progress can be made, if thats signings so be it or if its using our youth/loan players thats fine too as long as they are players the manager wants so that he uses them and he has options.

 

Of the youth/loan players I think there is a few that could do a job for us depending on the formation used, I personally think baker could do a job for us as a squad player as could christensen/musonda and maybe pasalac, Id say them due to their experience in the leagues they are on loan at, baker can play a few positions in midfield and the others have shown to be able to play to a good standard in a good league, not only would it be cheaper option for the club by utilising players we already have, but it will go along way to reassuring the younger lot we have that we can actually offer them a route to the first team, as at the moment if it looks from the outside its a fruitless exercise imagine what it feels like from the inside?

forget about who done what against whom and just remember the fact that we were reigning defending champions !! and we totally f**ked up !! and jose was in charge so there the buck stops, anybody who thinks jose would of turned it around or had us where hiddink has now is just plain deluded, he had lost it.

After what Jose  said about the players after his last game in charge, there was no way the players would play for him. He wasn't let go because we just lost to the league leader, because it's impossible for the players to work with him. I honestly don't want imagine where we are on the table had Roman kept him in charge. Hiddink did a good job, at least he stopped us from winning. In hindsight he should have been more aggressive and got us a few more wins, but he steadied the ship and got most players back on track again. There were a number of games where we would have lost easily at the start of the season, somehow the players responded and we salvaged results.

Under Jose we were looking to win home games, and that meant we took more chances which is why (in my opinion) the results were either wins or losses apart from the first match against Swansea.

Guus has been far less ambitious which is why we've drawn all but one game at home.

Away from home I think you have to look at the level of opponent we were facing under both Jose and Guus. Guus has faced three of the bottom five teams away from home, and when he faced Arsenal they went down to ten men. The match at Southampton is the only real surprise in my opinion.

That's not to say Guus has done a bad job or Jose did a good one, just that when you account for the difficulty of opponent (which is a measure that isn't actually used in football statistics for some reason) then it's not as clear as the over-simplistic statements of 'games unbeaten' suggests.

Whatever! We were sh*t in the beginning of the season under Jose and all teams in the EPL wanted to play us. But right now no team that needs maximum points will like to come up against us. Bro please dont tell me you cant see a big difference in that!

When we lost 9 of the first 16 games this PL season, and then none of the next 15, I find it very amusing that people still try to argue that nothing has changed ...

I dont blame those people who keep lamenting that nothing has changed because from experience i understand that some people do forget things easily, short memory.

Yes and no, our home form is simply not good enough.

Yeah i agree, but its still better than what it was earlier in the season.

Yay, let's celebrate mediocrity.

Yay, let's celebrate mediocrity.

Exactly.

"Oh we have been great away from home! Result"

Just ignore the part where we have been an embarrassment at the Bridge and we are out of every single competition.

Yay, let's celebrate mediocrity.

Still having difficulty figuring out who's the bellend, you or I. Posts such as this...

No one is celebrating medicrotity. Common sense will tell you that being unbeaten in 15 7 draws and 8 wins after a disastrous starts, breeds optimism that the club have the tools to challenge under Conte next season. I'm super confident that we can mount a title challenge next season.

Our season was a write off before Xmas but not one team in this league scares me. No reason why we cannot win next season.

There are two things none of would've predicted. Jose royally messing up and Hiddink steadying the ship after a car crash that was left behind.

Losing in the FA Cup was disappointing but the CL was always a pipe dream.

Edited April 4, 201610 yr by KonaKai Blue

No one is celebrating medicrotity. Common sense will tell you that being unbeaten in 15 7 draws and 8 wins after a disastrous starts, breeds optimism that the club have the tools to challenge under Conte next season. I'm super confident that we can mount a title challenge next season.

Our season was a write off before Xmas but not one team in this league scares me. No reason why we cannot win next season.

There are two things none of would've predicted. Jose royally messing up and Hiddink steadying the ship after a car crash that was left behind.

Losing in the FA Cup was disappointing but the CL was always a pipe dream.

This simple.

Yay, let's celebrate mediocrity.

 

Last time I checked Chelsea is 3rd in the form table since Jose was sacked, I don't see how that is mediocre. 

No one is celebrating medicrotity. Common sense will tell you that being unbeaten in 15 7 draws and 8 wins after a disastrous starts, breeds optimism that the club have the tools to challenge under Conte next season. I'm super confident that we can mount a title challenge next season.

Our season was a write off before Xmas but not one team in this league scares me. No reason why we cannot win next season.

There are two things none of would've predicted. Jose royally messing up and Hiddink steadying the ship after a car crash that was left behind.

Losing in the FA Cup was disappointing but the CL was always a pipe dream.

Have to agree with this. Considering how poor some of the players have been, and how average gus has been cording to some, it must leave fans optimistic that a top manager like conte, and a couple of additions, would easily be enough to challenge for the title.

If we don't concede that late equaliser at home to West Brom, and Oscar sticks that penalty in at home to Watford, we would be top since gus took over.

I think gus has done a pretty good job on the whole. Psg are a better team than us,

so there's no real shame in going out to them, as we did last year, despite having a better team, manager, and man advantage in the second leg.

Everton away is a tough game anyway, especially with the hangover of Psg defeat, and missing a couple of key players.

We may not have salvaged a trophy or champions league place, but I think gus has definitely laid the foundation for us to recover from this season, and mount a serious title challenge next season.

Last time I checked Chelsea is 3rd in the form table since Jose was sacked, I don't see how that is mediocre.

The irony in that comment when you look at those still bitter over Jose being sacked. Suggests they were celebrating worse than mediocrity

 those still bitter over Jose being sacked. Suggests they were celebrating worse than mediocrity

 

Everyone was upset at our bad form. In what world does being bitter about Jose mean they were celebrating it

Edited April 4, 201610 yr by Stim

Still having difficulty figuring out who's the bellend, you or I. Posts such as this...

 

 

Let me help you, its You 

Have to agree with this. Considering how poor some of the players have been, and how average gus has been cording to some, it must leave fans optimistic that a top manager like conte, and a couple of additions, would easily be enough to challenge for the title.

 

 

Couple of additions? Aren't most people looking for us to spend the best part of £100 million in key areas like midfield and defence basically creating a new spine for this team? At the moment I think we're a long way off being a title challenger, especially if we have another Summer like last year.

 

If we don't concede that late equaliser at home to West Brom, and Oscar sticks that penalty in at home to Watford, we would be top since gus took over.

 

And if we don't get an offside goal in the 98th minute against Everton then we lose, or if Arsenal don't get reduced to ten men etc...These things seem to have evened out.

 

I think gus has done a pretty good job on the whole. Psg are a better team than us,

so there's no real shame in going out to them, as we did last year, despite having a better team, manager, and man advantage in the second leg.

Everton away is a tough game anyway, especially with the hangover of Psg defeat, and missing a couple of key players.

 

 

PSG are a better team, but so are Everton apparently. They've beaten us twice this year (once under Jose, once under Guus) and that suggests that there are real issues with this team that aren't dependent on the coach at the time. That's what people are saying, not that Guus hasn't done a decent job but that he's done about as well as ANY coach could've with the resources at his disposal.

 

Some people are saying rather than simply regurgitating the '15 games unbeaten*' spiel that we should look at the level of opponent we've faced, and Offside did a perfect job of that.

 

Basically, against a similar level of opposition at home we've accrued the same number of points and against weaker opposition away from home we've got more. That isn't a cause for celebration is it?

Let me help you, its You

Ouch your opinion hurts. This bellend can still spell better than you though. Still b*ttmad from last yr I see.

Still having difficulty figuring out who's the bellend, you or I. Posts such as this...

It's you.

You're welcome.