5 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

 

Well compared to the potential 100m+ for Lukaku, 90m for Belotti, it's quite... reasonable...

 

Yep. Morata is worth shelling out for. To get this into context though, even allowing for the big jump in transfer prices generally following the Higuain and Pogba deals last year which has a significant knock on effect, I would argue that Alvaro Morata is worth no more than £65m tops.

That said, I'm pretty confident that if Conte completes the transfer the player will not disappoint.

Don Balon are reporting that Morata is pushing for a move to Chelsea as he wants to have regular football in the lead up to this year's World Cup...he was disappointed not to get the United move so he his determined not to miss out on the Chelsea transfer...

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by doctorblue

1 minute ago, doctorblue said:

Don Balon are reporting that Morata is pushing for a move to Chelsea as he wants to have regular football in the lead up to this year's World Cup...he was disappointed not to get the United move so he his determined not to miss out on the Chelsea transfer...

If that's true, then offer them £35m and let Morata do the rest of work.

12 hours ago, B&Wlegends said:

IMO morata is way better than Belotti, much more experience and lethal in big games. Belotti has 1 great season under his belt with a team that had nothing to ask and played for him. He is a good player but a riskier bet than Morata who has proofed is quality at Real and Juve not in mid table team like Torino

 

I value your opinions but I'm also aware you're a Juve fan comparing a former Juve striker versus one that plays for your city rivals. Even if Torino aren't a serious rival of Juventus I've no doubt there's a bit of mutual loathing between the clubs, even if it comes more from their side.

 

Yes Morata has more experience and has played at the top level but scoring for a middling club is not necessarily easier. You get poorer service, your team has less possession, you are at a distinct disadvantage when you're playing better teams etc etc. I understand you have to cope with more pressure and there's less space to operate when you play for a big club, but when you're playing for the dominant side in your league you're always going to be at an advantage.

 

Belotti has 56 goals in 138 games for Palermo and Torino, whereas Morata has 58 goals in 188 games for Juve and Real, though I accept many of those appearances may have been as sub. Morata is a couple of years older too which makes him nearer his peak, which may benefit us more though in the longer term maybe Belotti can climb bigger heights. I know you can't judge a striker solely on goals but there's no doubt Belotti has a far better scoring rate. Not only did Belotti outscore Morata last season but he created more assists and he had double the amount of shots per game. Defensively too he contributes more. He tackled twice as much as Morata did, intercepted four times as much and had twice as many clearances too. You can say Torino have to defend much more hence his better defensive stats but then that wouldn't explain his better offensive stats, with not only more goals and assists and shots per game but three times the amount of key passes per game and more dribbles per game too.

 

I would agree that Belotti constitutes the bigger risk and seeing as he would possibly be more expensive it may be a prudent choice to go with the player with more pedigree, after all at the figures being quoted you don't want to be reckless, but looking at the videos of them both and the stats I think Belotti is marginally better in the air though Morata looks good in the air too admittedly, looks marginally the better finisher as his scoring record would testify, and he looks far better with his weaker foot, happy to shoot with either foot whereas Morata almost always tries to get the ball on his right. Belotti looks more of a fighter too who plays with his heart, there's a bit of the underdog about him, somebody who's had to fight for everything he's got, compared to Morata who looks and plays a bit more like footballing aristocracy. Belotti has risen from the gutter if you like and sometimes that can stand a player in good stead, especially when they're faced with a bit of adversity.

 

Just a hunch, but I like the cut of Belotti's jib and if it were up to me I'd pick him but I'm not the manager nor am I in charge of the purse strings so I'm not best qualified to judge. I just think Belotti is a better fit for Chelsea and I think the fans would worship him. I can't help thinking of Suarez when I see him play, he's a bit more unorthodox and there's a bit more of the street about him and he looks an absolute nightmare for defenders and a great guy to have around the dressing room. He looks like a character and he looks like he has a real desire to win and a real aptitude for graft. I'd never heard of him before this window but I'm going to be keeping an eye on him. It will be interesting to see if he pushes on or whether he can't quite live up to the hype he's created.

If the rumor was true, bidding 62M is not a good starting point. They turned down bid well of 70M, and now they know we are desperate. The longer it drags on, the more expensive the deal will be, if it happens at all. We should just put up the 75M United paid and get a reaction out of them, they would laugh at 62M

15 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

I value your opinions but I'm also aware you're a Juve fan comparing a former Juve striker versus one that plays for your city rivals. Even if Torino aren't a serious rival of Juventus I've no doubt there's a bit of mutual loathing between the clubs, even if it comes more from their side.

 

Yes Morata has more experience and has played at the top level but scoring for a middling club is not necessarily easier. You get poorer service, your team has less possession, you are at a distinct disadvantage when you're playing better teams etc etc. I understand you have to cope with more pressure and there's less space to operate when you play for a big club, but when you're playing for the dominant side in your league you're always going to be at an advantage.

 

Belotti has 56 goals in 138 games for Palermo and Torino, whereas Morata has 58 goals in 188 games for Juve and Real, though I accept many of those appearances may have been as sub. Morata is a couple of years older too which makes him nearer his peak, which may benefit us more though in the longer term maybe Belotti can climb bigger heights. I know you can't judge a striker solely on goals but there's no doubt Belotti has a far better scoring rate. Not only did Belotti outscore Morata last season but he created more assists and he had double the amount of shots per game. Defensively too he contributes more. He tackled twice as much as Morata did, intercepted four times as much and had twice as many clearances too. You can say Torino have to defend much more hence his better defensive stats but then that wouldn't explain his better offensive stats, with not only more goals and assists and shots per game but three times the amount of key passes per game and more dribbles per game too.

 

I would agree that Belotti constitutes the bigger risk and seeing as he would possibly be more expensive it may be a prudent choice to go with the player with more pedigree, after all at the figures being quoted you don't want to be reckless, but looking at the videos of them both and the stats I think Belotti is marginally better in the air though Morata looks good in the air too admittedly, looks marginally the better finisher as his scoring record would testify, and he looks far better with his weaker foot, happy to shoot with either foot whereas Morata almost always tries to get the ball on his right. Belotti looks more of a fighter too who plays with his heart, there's a bit of the underdog about him, somebody who's had to fight for everything he's got, compared to Morata who looks and plays a bit more like footballing aristocracy. Belotti has risen from the gutter if you like and sometimes that can stand a player in good stead, especially when they're faced with a bit of adversity.

 

Just a hunch, but I like the cut of Belotti's jib and if it were up to me I'd pick him but I'm not the manager nor am I in charge of the purse strings so I'm not best qualified to judge. I just think Belotti is a better fit for Chelsea and I think the fans would worship him. I can't help thinking of Suarez when I see him play, he's a bit more unorthodox and there's a bit more of the street about him and he looks an absolute nightmare for defenders and a great guy to have around the dressing room. He looks like a character and he looks like he has a real desire to win and a real aptitude for graft. I'd never heard of him before this window but I'm going to be keeping an eye on him. It will be interesting to see if he pushes on or whether he can't quite live up to the hype he's created.

The Tourino's President has confirmed today that they have received no offers for the player and they will not budge from their £88m release clause...good player but that's a lot of money for a striker that's had one good season in an inferior league...

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by doctorblue

32 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

The Tourino's President has confirmed today that they have received no offers for the player and they will not budge from their £88m release clause...good player but that's a lot of money for a striker that's had one good season in an inferior league...

I think by all accounts morata will be our main target, we should get him, seems the player wants it, if real wished to pull down our pants they can quite easily. They seem to be above the unnecessarily suborn approach of smaller clubs like Everton and Napoli if they are willing to sell they will sell, plus they will buy hazard at some point they are experienced enough to build a relationship for future dealings. 75 plus add ons will be where it will settle if I had to guess. 

4 minutes ago, DonAntonio said:

I think by all accounts morata will be our main target, we should get him, seems the player wants it, if real wished to pull down our pants they can quite easily. They seem to be above the unnecessarily suborn approach of smaller clubs like Everton and Napoli if they are willing to sell they will sell, plus they will buy hazard at some point they are experienced enough to build a relationship for future dealings. 75 plus add ons will be where it will settle if I had to guess. 

Plus, Real are desperate to get Mbappe and need to offload a few players. Morata and Danilo would be nice for around 100 million quid

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by Osgood is Good

1 hour ago, doctorblue said:

The Tourino's President has confirmed today that they have received no offers for the player and they will not budge from their £88m release clause...good player but that's a lot of money for a striker that's had one good season in an inferior league...

 

I'd say the season before last was a good season, when he scored exactly 1 in 3. Last season was an outstanding season, but still, I agree, a lot of money.

Zola thinks along similar lines to me, that Belotti may the better fit.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/827281/Chelsea-Transfer-News-Alvaro-Morata-Andrea-Belotti-Gianfranco-Zola-Antonio-Conte

it's either morata or aubemeyang, no other top strikers available who are proven. 

13 hours ago, B&Wlegends said:

we loved him and still do, and he loves Juve. The only reason he left is because of the buy back clause. Juve did offer 55 millions to Real before buying Higuain but they refused. Napoli offered 60/65 and Morata refused as he did this year with Milan because he does not want to play in Italy for another team.

 

 

Out of interest, if he was highly thought of at Juve, how come Napoli offered more for him? Juve clearly had the money to go higher, as they proved with Higuain.

8 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Zola thinks along similar lines to me, that Belotti may the better fit.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/sport/football/827281/Chelsea-Transfer-News-Alvaro-Morata-Andrea-Belotti-Gianfranco-Zola-Antonio-Conte

In fairness Zola, as wonderful as he was as a player, is a rubbish manager/coach so I'd take his opinions on player recruitment lightly. 

14 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

I'd say the season before last was a good season, when he scored exactly 1 in 3. Last season was an outstanding season, but still, I agree, a lot of money.

He got 16 from 62 appearances for Palmero in Serie B...good but nothing outstanding in a lower league...

1 hour ago, Davey Baby said:

 

I value your opinions but I'm also aware you're a Juve fan comparing a former Juve striker versus one that plays for your city rivals. Even if Torino aren't a serious rival of Juventus I've no doubt there's a bit of mutual loathing between the clubs, even if it comes more from their side.

 

Yes Morata has more experience and has played at the top level but scoring for a middling club is not necessarily easier. You get poorer service, your team has less possession, you are at a distinct disadvantage when you're playing better teams etc etc. I understand you have to cope with more pressure and there's less space to operate when you play for a big club, but when you're playing for the dominant side in your league you're always going to be at an advantage.

 

Belotti has 56 goals in 138 games for Palermo and Torino, whereas Morata has 58 goals in 188 games for Juve and Real, though I accept many of those appearances may have been as sub. Morata is a couple of years older too which makes him nearer his peak, which may benefit us more though in the longer term maybe Belotti can climb bigger heights. I know you can't judge a striker solely on goals but there's no doubt Belotti has a far better scoring rate. Not only did Belotti outscore Morata last season but he created more assists and he had double the amount of shots per game. Defensively too he contributes more. He tackled twice as much as Morata did, intercepted four times as much and had twice as many clearances too. You can say Torino have to defend much more hence his better defensive stats but then that wouldn't explain his better offensive stats, with not only more goals and assists and shots per game but three times the amount of key passes per game and more dribbles per game too.

 

I would agree that Belotti constitutes the bigger risk and seeing as he would possibly be more expensive it may be a prudent choice to go with the player with more pedigree, after all at the figures being quoted you don't want to be reckless, but looking at the videos of them both and the stats I think Belotti is marginally better in the air though Morata looks good in the air too admittedly, looks marginally the better finisher as his scoring record would testify, and he looks far better with his weaker foot, happy to shoot with either foot whereas Morata almost always tries to get the ball on his right. Belotti looks more of a fighter too who plays with his heart, there's a bit of the underdog about him, somebody who's had to fight for everything he's got, compared to Morata who looks and plays a bit more like footballing aristocracy. Belotti has risen from the gutter if you like and sometimes that can stand a player in good stead, especially when they're faced with a bit of adversity.

 

Just a hunch, but I like the cut of Belotti's jib and if it were up to me I'd pick him but I'm not the manager nor am I in charge of the purse strings so I'm not best qualified to judge. I just think Belotti is a better fit for Chelsea and I think the fans would worship him. I can't help thinking of Suarez when I see him play, he's a bit more unorthodox and there's a bit more of the street about him and he looks an absolute nightmare for defenders and a great guy to have around the dressing room. He looks like a character and he looks like he has a real desire to win and a real aptitude for graft. I'd never heard of him before this window but I'm going to be keeping an eye on him. It will be interesting to see if he pushes on or whether he can't quite live up to the hype he's created.

You raise some good points let me address them if I can. First of all I have no bias at all against Belotti whom I consider a very good player and not being originally from Torino I have not so strong feelings against them as most juve fans anyway because they have not been seriously competitive for over 40 years. Torino fans of course feel very strongly about us as you could expect from fans of a mid table team with a good tradition but no recent successes who have t

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by B&Wlegends

Can we realistically wrap this up before the start of pre-season? Otherwise Michy will be our only striker, although I was hoping Ugbo might sneak on the plane.

2 minutes ago, Floyd25 said:

Can we realistically wrap this up before the start of pre-season? Otherwise Michy will be our only striker, although I was hoping Ugbo might sneak on the plane.

An offer went in today, so if we can agree a fee within the next couple of days then personal terms and the medical can easily be done by Friday...I'm hopeful it can be sorted before they leave for the Far East next week...

23 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

He got 16 from 62 appearances for Palmero in Serie B...good but nothing outstanding in a lower league...

 

Yes but he was a teenager, and I'd assume many of those appearances were as sub.

Edited July 11, 20179 yr by Davey Baby

I'm a bit concerned that we haven't been our usual decisive selves in the transfer window. We normally do a bit of early business as soon as the window opens. Although we have just signed Rudiger , there seems little else going on and the Costa problem shows no sign of being resolved. It seems to be the case that Costa only wants to go to Athletico but he can't play for them because of their transfer embargo until January. If it resolves the issue we should buy someone else like Moratta, agree a fixed price for Costa in January and let him sit on the bench until then. I know this will effect the cash flow but we have to take the long view with regard a settled squad.

Of course it may be the case that Costa agrees to stay. I have to say that I don't trust the guy and feel he would kick off again just before January and we would be left high and dry. We need to resolve this problem now. Sorry Deigo, I like the goals but you can stick your tantrums where your sombrero doesn't reach.

I can only hope there is plenty going on behind the scenes.

25 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

In fairness Zola, as wonderful as he was as a player, is a rubbish manager/coach so I'd take his opinions on player recruitment lightly. 

 

That's true of course although you can still be a good judge of a player while being a sh*t manager. Either way, I trust Conte's judgement more than Zola's and even slightly above my own!

4 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Yes but he was a teenager.

True but I suppose the bottom line is that to get him you'll have to trigger his release clause of £88m...that's a large risk to benefit judgement...

4 minutes ago, Andy North said:

I'm a bit concerned that we haven't been our usual decisive selves in the transfer window. We normally do a bit of early business as soon as the window opens. Although we have just signed Rudiger , there seems little else going on and the Costa problem shows no sign of being resolved. It seems to be the case that Costa only wants to go to Athletico but he can't play for them because of their transfer embargo until January. If it resolves the issue we should buy someone else like Moratta, agree a fixed price for Costa in January and let him sit on the bench until then. I know this will effect the cash flow but we have to take the long view with regard a settled squad.

Of course it may be the case that Costa agrees to stay. I have to say that I don't trust the guy and feel he would kick off again just before January and we would be left high and dry. We need to resolve this problem now. Sorry Deigo, I like the goals but you can stick your tantrums where your sombrero doesn't reach.

I can only hope there is plenty going on behind the scenes.

The question is can Costa be trusted to act professionally until January? I'm not sure that he can compose himself...sadly sometimes the best way to treat a cancer is to cut it out entirely...

8 minutes ago, Andy North said:

I'm a bit concerned that we haven't been our usual decisive selves in the transfer window. We normally do a bit of early business as soon as the window opens. Although we have just signed Rudiger , there seems little else going on and the Costa problem shows no sign of being resolved. It seems to be the case that Costa only wants to go to Athletico but he can't play for them because of their transfer embargo until January. If it resolves the issue we should buy someone else like Moratta, agree a fixed price for Costa in January and let him sit on the bench until then. I know this will effect the cash flow but we have to take the long view with regard a settled squad.

Of course it may be the case that Costa agrees to stay. I have to say that I don't trust the guy and feel he would kick off again just before January and we would be left high and dry. We need to resolve this problem now. Sorry Deigo, I like the goals but you can stick your tantrums where your sombrero doesn't reach.

I can only hope there is plenty going on behind the scenes.

Good points mate.

They have sombreros in Brazil?

2 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

The question is can Costa be trusted to act professionally until January? I'm not sure that he can compose himself...sadly sometimes the best way to treat a cancer is to cut it out entirely...

Holy sh*t, did I just notice we agree on something?! Now I'm worried.

1 minute ago, doctorblue said:

The question is can Costa be trusted to act professionally until January? I'm not sure that he can compose himself...sadly sometimes the best way to treat a cancer is to cut it out entirely...

Bit harsh. 

Im not his biggest fan, but he was pretty instrumental for us for the last few years.