On 31/05/2021 at 17:33, Deino said:

Gotta love him. No "I" only "We".

GOAT

Probably the most humble player I have ever seen. It's always "we" it's never "I"

 

😄😄

After some comments from Gallas and Deschamps I'm starting to wonder is Ngolo Kanté currently the best player in the world?

A lot of people are saying if France win the Euros, then Kanté should win the ballon d'or. For me there are only two players I think deserve to be called the best player in the world for last season.

Robert Lewandowski and Ngolo Kanté. Arguments could be made for both and I'm not really looking to go into that but, I'm generally curious what people think about this like from a purely footballing/sporting perspective removing the Chelsea rose tinted glasses no bias whatsoever. Is Ngolo Kanté the best player on the planet right now? 

I personally don't believe in "best player of the world" stuff but regardless if he's actually winning the Ballon d'Or (can't believe it due the history of that trophy) or not: if he's along the top 2-3 players running for it that's an incredible achievement already for a (perceived defensive!) midfielder who isn't scoring goals or assists. Hope he wins it!

51 minutes ago, weetee said:

I personally don't believe in "best player of the world" stuff but regardless if he's actually winning the Ballon d'Or (can't believe it due the history of that trophy) or not: if he's along the top 2-3 players running for it that's an incredible achievement already for a (perceived defensive!) midfielder who isn't scoring goals or assists. Hope he wins it!

It's total nonsense I agree, only when it's one of our players I passionately believe there is such a thing  😇

5 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

After some comments from Gallas and Deschamps I'm starting to wonder is Ngolo Kanté currently the best player in the world?

A lot of people are saying if France win the Euros, then Kanté should win the ballon d'or. For me there are only two players I think deserve to be called the best player in the world for last season.

Robert Lewandowski and Ngolo Kanté. Arguments could be made for both and I'm not really looking to go into that but, I'm generally curious what people think about this like from a purely footballing/sporting perspective removing the Chelsea rose tinted glasses no bias whatsoever. Is Ngolo Kanté the best player on the planet right now? 

“Good/better/best” are not useful terms for describing football players. I would instead suggest words such as “influential/important/impactful” for evaluating players in a free-flowing game with a great deal of positional interchange. Both Kante and Lewandowski are world-class in the latter set, despite very few similarities in technical skills. What they share mostly is positional genius. The most memorable image for me in the CL final was not Kante stripping the ball from Mahrez or De Bruyne, but leaping in City’s box to take a header between two, count ‘em two, much taller defenders. That wasn’t skill, it was smarts (and effort and stamina).

Is Kante the most successful ever player to have played for us? 

1 minute ago, Deino said:

Is Kante the most successful ever player to have played for us? 

Pedro I think. If Kante wins a Euros he would have also completed the set I think. 

Also can we just acknowledge again that certain muppets on this forum advocated for him to be sold over the winter?

6 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Also can we just acknowledge again that certain muppets on this forum advocated for him to be sold over the winter?

when i had crossed over from cfc net to this forum a couple of years ago. . i remember having a longish debate with some one on how despite playing a different role under Sarri his defensive numbers werent that bad.. 

On 14/06/2021 at 23:29, LongtimerLurker said:

After some comments from Gallas and Deschamps I'm starting to wonder is Ngolo Kanté currently the best player in the world?

A lot of people are saying if France win the Euros, then Kanté should win the ballon d'or. For me there are only two players I think deserve to be called the best player in the world for last season.

Robert Lewandowski and Ngolo Kanté. Arguments could be made for both and I'm not really looking to go into that but, I'm generally curious what people think about this like from a purely footballing/sporting perspective removing the Chelsea rose tinted glasses no bias whatsoever. Is Ngolo Kanté the best player on the planet right now? 

Purely from football from point of view, it will be Messi for the last 10 or more years 

Edited June 16, 20215 yr by Bob stark

On 14/06/2021 at 16:29, LongtimerLurker said:

After some comments from Gallas and Deschamps I'm starting to wonder is Ngolo Kanté currently the best player in the world?

A lot of people are saying if France win the Euros, then Kanté should win the ballon d'or. For me there are only two players I think deserve to be called the best player in the world for last season.

Robert Lewandowski and Ngolo Kanté. Arguments could be made for both and I'm not really looking to go into that but, I'm generally curious what people think about this like from a purely footballing/sporting perspective removing the Chelsea rose tinted glasses no bias whatsoever. Is Ngolo Kanté the best player on the planet right now? 

It's definitely between him and Lewandowski at this stage. If Kante wins the Euro's, then I think that will clinch it.

9 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Also can we just acknowledge again that certain muppets on this forum advocated for him to be sold over the winter?

I don't think I ever wanted him sold (maybe in the heat of the moment when Lampard was making him untouchable when his performances weren't warranting it but apart from that no) but I'll happily admit to the fact I thought the performances of the last few months were a thing of the past so I'm very pleasantly surprised with that.

However I don't think many of us really comes up smelling of roses in this debate tbh, almost everyone on the other side of the argument were calling for him to be played at sitting defensive midfield for the two and a bit years before this period which as these same recent performances have demonstrated was just as silly as calling for him to be sold, if not more so.

Edited June 16, 20215 yr by Argo

Just to clarify because I think some people got what I was saying, whilst some others may have misunderstood my question. Purely from a sporting perspective is Kanté the best individual in the world at this specific moment in time based purely of the last 12 months? Ofc this is purely your opinion there is no right or wrong answer.

I completely agree with the Euros statement but, I also wanted to point out how Lewandowski has essentially a harder job this Euros since Ngolo has the better team and won't be the only player primarily carrying them to glory.

I understand some people are hesitant to discuss the 'best' player since it's a team sport fair enough but nonetheless every season there is one individual who deserves the award and despite how phenomenal Messi and Ronaldo have been over the last 15 years the past 2 seasons it has not been them (imho).

For me Lewandowski deserved the Ballon d'or last season and it is a joke they cancelled it due to covid. We still had a full season (even if it was broken up and slightly reduced) and he performed phenomenal. So I think he deserves to win the award.

On the other hand if a player gets man of the match in 2 ucl semi finals and then the finals itself add in another in either the last 16 or quarters (I forget which one) and you're essentially looking at the most influential player in the tournament. To perform at such a high level I question how can he not be at least considered to be the best in the world.

In fact the reason I raise this debate is because players in his types of positions in the modern game are rarely recognised for awards such as fifa men's best player and the ballon d'or since scoring goals and assisting tends to be the main metrics the best player in the world is often measured by (not always ofc just more in contemporary times).

I would argue Kanté winning such an award is good for football as a sport because it shows the award is so much more than simply being a phenomenal attacking player. In fact I would say Virgil deserved to win it a couple years back, his impact on that team is irreplaceable as seen in his absence this season.

Edited June 17, 20215 yr by erskblue

12 hours ago, LongtimerLurker said:

Just to clarify because I think some people got what I was saying, whilst some others may have misunderstood my question. Purely from a sporting perspective is Kanté the best individual in the world at this specific moment in time based purely of the last 12 months? Ofc this is purely your opinion there is no right or wrong answer.

I completely agree with the Euros statement but, I also wanted to point out how Lewandowski has essentially a harder job this Euros since Ngolo has the better team and won't be the only player primarily carrying them to glory.

I understand some people are hesitant to discuss the 'best' player since it's a team sport fair enough but nonetheless every season there is one individual who deserves the award and despite how phenomenal Messi and Ronaldo have been over the last 15 years the past 2 seasons it has not been them (imho).

For me Lewandowski deserved the Ballon d'or last season and it is a joke they cancelled it due to covid. We still had a full season (even if it was broken up and slightly reduced) and he performed phenomenal. So I think he deserves to win the award.

On the other hand if a player gets man of the match in 2 ucl semi finals and then the finals itself add in another in either the last 16 or quarters (I forget which one) and you're essentially looking at the most influential player in the tournament. To perform at such a high level I question how can he not be at least considered to be the best in the world.

In fact the reason I raise this debate is because players in his types of positions in the modern game are rarely recognised for awards such as fifa men's best player and the ballon d'or since scoring goals and assisting tends to be the main metrics the best player in the world is often measured by (not always ofc just more in contemporary times).

I would argue Kanté winning such an award is good for football as a sport because it shows the award is so much more than simply being a phenomenal attacking player. In fact I would say Virgil deserved to win it a couple years back, his impact on that team is irreplaceable as seen in his absence this season.

Like I said, if balon'dor is about who is the best player for the last 12 months, it will be Messi pretty much every year. 

But that is not what balon dor is all about, it is more on combination of team and individual performance. So how do you judge this is really up to you. 

As a Chelsea fans of course I want Kante to win balon'dor but it really doesn't matter, it won't change my perception of him as player. We had Hazard for years, I don't think he was ever at top 3 in balon'dor voting but hazard was clearly in balon'dor players bracket. 

Edited June 17, 20215 yr by Bob stark

29 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Like I said, if balon'dor is about who is the best player for the last 12 months, it will be Messi pretty much every year. 

But that is not what balon dor is all about, it is more on combination of team and individual performance. So how do you judge this is really up to you. 

As a Chelsea fans of course I want Kante to win balon'dor but it really doesn't matter, it won't change my perception of him as player. We had Hazard for years, I don't think he was ever at top 3 in balon'dor voting but hazard was clearly in balon'dor players bracket. 

Messi has been irrelevant in European football for the past 5 years or so, he has been in 1 team that gave him everything and because of it they are suffering in recent times on multiple levels, result and finance wise. Messi knows very well that he spent most of his career playing with the golden Spanish generation that comes once in 200 or more but he has his own flaws and part from Barcelona he never really won anything with his national team that is one of the biggest football nations... There is literally a song about Kante in France where they say that he stopped Messi (at the last World Cup). A healthy Kante does a whole lot for his team no matter what but Messi if not given the ball and if not at the center of happenings can just lose all will to play and he will just walk around being unhappy...

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Messi has been irrelevant in European football for the past 5 years or so, he has been in 1 team that gave him everything and because of it they are suffering in recent times on multiple levels, result and finance wise. Messi knows very well that he spent most of his career playing with the golden Spanish generation that comes once in 200 or more but he has his own flaws and part from Barcelona he never really won anything with his national team that is one of the biggest football nations... There is literally a song about Kante in France where they say that he stopped Messi (at the last World Cup). A healthy Kante does a whole lot for his team no matter what but Messi if not given the ball and if not at the center of happenings can just lose all will to play and he will just walk around being unhappy...

So if you have a chance to pick prime messi or prime Kante in your team you will pick Kante.

Hmm even Kante will pick messi over himself.  I really don't think you understand how good Messi is. 

For Kante (and us really)  it was the best thing in the world that Tuchel arrived in January. 

There was a reason the general consensus was that he was underwhelming for most of the time under Sarri & Lampard and now he's probably the favorite for the Ballon d'Or and a Champions League winner after four months under Tuchel. The latter have got the best out of him again while the beforementioned two couldn't.

23 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

So if you have a chance to pick prime messi or prime Kante in your team you will pick Kante.

Hmm even Kante will pick messi over himself.  I really don't think you understand how good Messi is. 

Messi is good in 1 system and in 1 team. Let that sink in.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Messi is good in 1 system and in 1 team. Let that sink in

So Lampard and Terry were only good in 1 system and 1 team only then. 

Edited June 17, 20215 yr by Bob stark

1 hour ago, Sindre said:

For Kante (and us really)  it was the best thing in the world that Tuchel arrived in January. 

There was a reason the general consensus was that he was underwhelming for most of the time under Sarri & Lampard and now he's probably the favorite for the Ballon d'Or and a Champions League winner after four months under Tuchel. The latter have got the best out of him again while the beforementioned two couldn't.

It won't be just the 4 months under Tuchel that earns him the award, it'll be for all his achievements over the last 5-6 years for clubs and country.

9 minutes ago, coco said:

It won't be just the 4 months under Tuchel that earns him the award, it'll be for all his achievements over the last 5-6 years for clubs and country.

Well, it's an annual award and usually given to the player that performs best in that years CL and international competition. Don't think Kante's performances three years ago would affect his chances much.

3 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Well, it's an annual award and usually given to the player that performs best in that years CL and international competition. Don't think Kante's performances three years ago would affect his chances much.

Yeah usually the player that performs the best over a season wins it, but if he gets the award we all know he wouldn't of got it without first winning league titles at multiple clubs, along with the WC and EC with France. 

I'm not knocking Tuchels achievement with getting Kante firing again.