Rumour has it City have offered him a better contract than we have.

2 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Rumour has it City have offered him a better contract than we have.

We cannot afford to let him go to a direct rival. Surely it will be cheaper to give him the contract than buying a replacement.

It's a funny old world. Up until 6 months ago if you had read this page the bloke was a liability, reckless, poor defensive decisions etc. etc. Now apparently we couldn't possibly let him go and should pay him 200k a week. 

I'm a Rudiger fan but to play devils advocate, is it possible that Tuchel's maybe this system suits him and that it could suit another player? 

Whatever the outcome, the defence needs some attention in coming years.
- Rudiger, as noted above.  Looks increasingly likely he leaves and big shoes for anyone to fill
- AC, hopefully signs a new contract
- Dave, granted he plays wing back often also, but legs won't go forever.  Assume Chalobah and buy back of Livramento could address this
- Silva, just a superb player, but age is not on his side

To me, we need 2 minimum, three likely defenders in coming years.  The system seems to benefit all to an extent.  Closely watching the progression of Mbuyamba and Colwill, and would expect Kounde or similar to come in. 

I would like to see de ligt join, very physical ruthless defender for his age, or that kid from leicester fofana I thought was really good before his injury 

Edited October 24, 20214 yr by azpi28

27 minutes ago, PhilH930 said:

Whatever the outcome, the defence needs some attention in coming years.
- Rudiger, as noted above.  Looks increasingly likely he leaves and big shoes for anyone to fill
- AC, hopefully signs a new contract
- Dave, granted he plays wing back often also, but legs won't go forever.  Assume Chalobah and buy back of Livramento could address this
- Silva, just a superb player, but age is not on his side

To me, we need 2 minimum, three likely defenders in coming years.  The system seems to benefit all to an extent.  Closely watching the progression of Mbuyamba and Colwill, and would expect Kounde or similar to come in. 

The club were very keen on Kounde, I think we will be in for him again soon. Then I think Silva and Azpi could help us hold out for another season and we will see what's on the market.

6 hours ago, sonic90 said:

The club were very keen on Kounde, I think we will be in for him again soon. Then I think Silva and Azpi could help us hold out for another season and we will see what's on the market.

i am not sold on Kounde yet.. small for EPL IMO.. if brentford is to go by, if we dont have physical defenders teams will target us a lot.. To add to this AC as good as he has been isnt the best in the air.. which is very Rudi is absolutely critical and needs to be given a new contract..

This is what happens when you put a trust on your player and give him confidence. 

The system suits him very well, but with current form he will perform even as a RB or CB in two CB's.

He's unstoppable as a defender this season and it's great to see. I don't know what we are waiting for, we need him!

He's 28, let's say he can play his best until 32-33. Having a quality defender for the next 4-5 years.

 

Can't see us breaking the bank for him, so if he's getting a 300-400k deal elsewhere, good luck to him. More worried about the Christensen deal, it meant to be done but we are still waiting for the official news.

4 hours ago, Jangz said:

i am not sold on Kounde yet.. small for EPL IMO.. if brentford is to go by, if we dont have physical defenders teams will target us a lot.. To add to this AC as good as he has been isnt the best in the air.. which is very Rudi is absolutely critical and needs to be given a new contract..

Kounde is probably on par with Rudiger when it comes to physicality and has very good aerial success. Height isn't everything, remember Puyol and Canavaro were both midgets but 2 of the best centre halves to exist.

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Kounde is probably on par with Rudiger when it comes to physicality and has very good aerial success. Height isn't everything, remember Puyol and Canavaro were both midgets but 2 of the best centre halves to exist.

All about who you are partnered with in the PL. Riccy worked because he had JT next to him on one side, often Gallas or later Ivan playing LB or RB to cover on set pieces and Pete in behind who was also quite tall and much better in the air than many gave him credit for.

I think Rudiger is currently the physical/tall presence in the backline, not sure you'd replace Rudiger with Kounde. They might work in a pairing together perhaps.

4 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Kounde is probably on par with Rudiger when it comes to physicality and has very good aerial success. Height isn't everything, remember Puyol and Canavaro were both midgets but 2 of the best centre halves to exist.

The obsession with height/physicality over technique is what led to us falling so far off the top in the first place.

5 hours ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Can't see us breaking the bank for him, so if he's getting a 300-400k deal elsewhere, good luck to him. More worried about the Christensen deal, it meant to be done but we are still waiting for the official news.

Couple of months and he can officially negotiate with other clubs outside of England rather than just receiving verbal offers through his agent.

Is a smart play if you are looking for the most money possible. You know the club is well off, if you go to them and show an official offer, cause you cannot legally do that now but can as of Jan 1st,  then you ask them to match it.

So for AC if he say gets an 200k a week offer from Real he can go to the club and say "hey i know we were talking about 140k but look at this".

Toni can do likewise with whatever PSG offer him.

Let's not also forget that, while Toni is currently a fan favorite, less than a year ago he was a backup, on his way out in Jan it seemed, and targeted by several fans as a villain who stabbed Frank in the back, even though we know clearly that did not happen.

Why should he stay if he can more than double his money elsewhere. He did not grow up a Chelsea fan, nor was from our youth set up. Few articles have had him talk about his poor upbringing and wanting to give back what he can. More money he makes, more he could give back.

32 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Let's not also forget that, while Toni is currently a fan favorite, less than a year ago he was a backup, on his way out in Jan it seemed, and targeted by several fans as a villain who stabbed Frank in the back, even though we know clearly that did not happen.

In hindsight maybe but I think we all know what would have happened if there was a crowd for the Wolves game.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

The obsession with height/physicality over technique is what led to us falling so far off the top in the first place.

Can you explain what you exactly mean? 

Was Willian, Hazard, Pedro, Fabregas, Azpi, Cahill etc. the downfall for the club? 

I think it is very important to have tall and strong players in the starting eleven. You can have nimble, lightweight, fast players but you have to complement them, same thing from the other side. So only "strong" players is also not a good balance. 

Bolt example. I would rather have Loftus cheek defend a lead than Gilmour. No matter how hard Gilmour tries the 6'2 guy will just brush him aside in a corner or whatever. 

2 hours ago, Argo said:

The obsession with height/physicality over technique is what led to us falling so far off the top in the first place.

Modern defenders are a combination of height, physicality, pace + skill and technique. We need all of those traits to challenge for titles now, it's not an either or situation

If height and physicality was the only requirement then Zouma wouldn't have been sold.

17 minutes ago, Nevamind said:

Can you explain what you exactly mean? 

Was Willian, Hazard, Pedro, Fabregas, Azpi, Cahill etc. the downfall for the club? 

I think it is very important to have tall and strong players in the starting eleven. You can have nimble, lightweight, fast players but you have to complement them, same thing from the other side. So only "strong" players is also not a good balance. 

Bolt example. I would rather have Loftus cheek defend a lead than Gilmour. No matter how hard Gilmour tries the 6'2 guy will just brush him aside in a corner or whatever. 

To summarise we were signing the likes of Bakayoko while our rivals were signing players like Bernardo Silva. We were also letting the likes of KDB go. We kept Ivanovic as an untouchable despite the game passing him by while almost all our rivals had excellent modern fullbacks. It wasn't one player per se it was a combination of actions.

It truly came to a head in 17/18 but the signs were there even when we were winning the league, the main case in point was how a ten man Paris had us chasing shadows (before absolutely smashing us the year after). We struggled against any high pressing side (hence our decline on the European stage around that time), so much so even Mourinho known for parking a jumbo jet in big games dropped Zlatan to apply high press against us at Old Trafford in the title season.

That's not to say I don't think the team shouldn't have a certain level of physicality but for me there comes a point where it goes too far and I think we (especially under Jose) crossed that line. Regarding defending a lead, the best way to manage games is with the ball so I would always think prevention (pick the players to best help prevent any potential danger) than cure (working out who is best to help once we're in the sh*t).

2 hours ago, Argo said:

The obsession with height/physicality over technique is what led to us falling so far off the top in the first place.

 

7 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Kounde is probably on par with Rudiger when it comes to physicality and has very good aerial success. Height isn't everything, remember Puyol and Canavaro were both midgets but 2 of the best centre halves to exist.

i dont want to look at other leagues.. the kind of football played in PL is different and direct... And i struggle to think of a single defender who has dominated in the modern era and been around the 5'10' mark.

VVD - 6'4",  Kompany - 6'4" , Terry - 6'2",  Ricky (shortest of them) - 6'0" , Vidic  - 6'3" , Rio - 6'2" , Sol Campbel - 6'2" ... i can keep going .. 

22 minutes ago, Argo said:

To summarise we were signing the likes of Bakayoko while our rivals were signing players like Bernardo Silva. We were also letting the likes of KDB go. We kept Ivanovic as an untouchable despite the game passing him by while almost all our rivals had excellent modern fullbacks. It wasn't one player per se it was a combination of actions.

It truly came to a head in 17/18 but the signs were there even when we were winning the league, the main case in point was how a ten man Paris had us chasing shadows (before absolutely smashing us the year after). We struggled against any high pressing side (hence our decline on the European stage around that time), so much so even Mourinho known for parking a jumbo jet in big games dropped Zlatan to apply high press against us at Old Trafford in the title season.

That's not to say I don't think the team shouldn't have a certain level of physicality but for me there comes a point where it goes too far and I think we (especially under Jose) crossed that line. Regarding defending a lead, the best way to manage games is with the ball so I would always think prevention (pick the players to best help prevent any potential danger) than cure (working out who is best to help once we're in the sh*t).

I will say though that it was nice from the club to let Ivanovic stay as much as it was possible. Azpilicueta is going to be 33 when this season is over as well and he also served the club really well. The interesting part of our tactic right now is that we rely heavily on our full-backs, Tuchel knows this and counts on them so I agree with your opinion that not getting Hakimi was a big blow for us.

 

 

19 minutes ago, Jangz said:

 

i dont want to look at other leagues.. the kind of football played in PL is different and direct... And i struggle to think of a single defender who has dominated in the modern era and been around the 5'10' mark.

VVD - 6'4",  Kompany - 6'4" , Terry - 6'2",  Ricky (shortest of them) - 6'0" , Vidic  - 6'3" , Rio - 6'2" , Sol Campbel - 6'2" ... i can keep going .. 

Kounde is maybe an even more physically fit player because of his lack of some inches in length.

I saw Sevilla some seasons ago winning against Wolves and Man United, Kounde was really strong in those games against top 7 and top 3 clubs of the PL and back then he was only 20-21 I think.

He might have a bigger vertical jump than someone that is a bit taller than him, T.Silva is 37 years old and is still good so I imagine what Kounde lacks in height he compesates with his youth and strength, he is really not shy to go wide and go against players 1v1 all over the pitch, this is the kind of player that I can guarantee you that Man City would want.

20 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

It's a funny old world. Up until 6 months ago if you had read this page the bloke was a liability, reckless, poor defensive decisions etc. etc. Now apparently we couldn't possibly let him go and should pay him 200k a week. 

I'm a Rudiger fan but to play devils advocate, is it possible that Tuchel's maybe this system suits him and that it could suit another player? 

I think that in a back 4, all these things could still be an issue with Rudiger. In a back 3, it's hard to find anybody better.

10 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I think that in a back 4, all these things could still be an issue with Rudiger. In a back 3, it's hard to find anybody better.

So much so that if Rudiger goes we may as well sell Alonso.

4 hours ago, Jangz said:

 

i dont want to look at other leagues.. the kind of football played in PL is different and direct... And i struggle to think of a single defender who has dominated in the modern era and been around the 5'10' mark.

VVD - 6'4",  Kompany - 6'4" , Terry - 6'2",  Ricky (shortest of them) - 6'0" , Vidic  - 6'3" , Rio - 6'2" , Sol Campbel - 6'2" ... i can keep going .. 

Don't try and talk too much sense. Some on here have a vision of us becoming late Wenger Arsenal with lovely technique and no cut through or defensive ability. They argued the same about physicality and height when people noted Kepa was too short to be a PL goalkeeper. Proof was of course in the pudding there. 

Truth is that you have to have technique and physicality to be a good CB these days. All of the list you mention were good on the ball too. Sadly Kurt's downfall with us was that he didn't quite have the technique required despite being a great defender. On the other hand as we saw with Sarr against Brentford, sometimes you can get badly caught out because you don't quite have the height to deal with the  aerials in the box. 

Edited October 25, 20214 yr by Spiller86

2 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Don't try and talk too much sense. Some on here have a vision of us becoming late Wenger Arsenal with lovely technique and no cut through or defensive ability. They argued the same about physicality and height when people noted Kepa was too short to be a PL goalkeeper. Proof was of course in the pudding there. 

No one thinks that, there's middle ground between that and what we ended up as in 17/18, I'm still scarred by how incompetent we looked against City.

As for Kepa, he's the same height as Cudicini who shone in a league that was a lot more physical than the current one. The Spaniards problem is/was that he was failing at what he's suppose to be good at, mainly distribution, shot stopping and sweeping. Kepa was just as sh*t in the UCL in 19/20 so it was hardly a league specific problem with him.