Underwhelming but can't blame the guy for missing. Penalties are always 50:50 at the end of the day. 

15 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

Taken to task by your hypotheticals? Have a word Davey. No one on this board knows for the fact what the truth is. We’re all going off what we perceived the incident to be. I never once said I was certain, I’ve even stated that if it was clear to everyone in the squad then Tammy, Jorginho & Willian should be disciplined. You’re not even open to the idea you’re wrong just because people from the club, representing the club are towing the party line. Do you honestly, hand on heart believe that the club never tells players, the manager etc what to say? Or that they decide on how they’ll approach something in the media which is different to how they tackle it behind closed doors? Of course they do.

 

The simple fact is none of us are likely to know the true details of what happened last night. I have no issue with you having a different view on what happened.

 

As for one of the earlier edited comments re; me looking to criticise Lampard and Barkley for anything. That’s laughable, I’ve backed lampard since day one even before he was announced but club legend or not, he is not above criticism (IF, as I say he hasn't been clear with the team).

As for Barkley, I was a fan of his signing and defended him in the beginning but he’s been here about 2.5 years now is it? He’s done absolutely nothing to show he’s anything more than a squad player and when we’re full strength he’s 6th choice for me. It’s a shame but he seems a completely different player for England than when he plays for us.

 

I've now read the entire post, and I apologise if my post above was a little bit short.

 

Ross has been with us a year and a half, and he was injured in that first year, and he was totally mismanaged under Sarri. I cannot believe people are using last night to knock the guy. He missed a penalty, it happens. His teammates didn't help him. If anybody needs to look in the mirror it's them.

 

Edit: I honestly hand on heart don't believe Frank would call out Jorginho and Willian unless he was telling the truth, otherwise he would be being idiotic. He says he has no idea what Jorginho and Willian were doing. Yes I believe him.

Edited September 18, 20196 yr by Davey Baby

Never let a scouser take a penalty when away in Europe.......... you know they're already distracted & stressed out that their home is probably being burgled while they're out of town.

2 hours ago, Dixons said:

We lack the big, dominant characters we used to have who would sort out this kind of sh*t.

I'm not saying these guys are on par with the old guard in that regard but let's not pretend it was all garden, roses and orgonasation with them at all time either.

Drogba got into clear on field bust ups with both Ballack and Lampard over issues similar to this.

19 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

 

............................the tailend of another Davey spat with someone........................

 

Edit: I honestly hand on heart don't believe Frank would call out Jorginho and Willian unless he was telling the truth, otherwise he would be being idiotic. He says he has no idea what Jorginho and Willian were doing. Yes I believe him.

Seriously, though, which part of "I have no idea what they were doing" counts as "calling them out"?  (To be honest, I didn't see the interview when it was discussed, so I am genuinely interested in the terms  used and how much is confirmation bias)

1 hour ago, Deino said:

Underwhelming but can't blame the guy for missing. Penalties are always 50:50 at the end of the day. 

90-10 for Lampard and Hazard.

1 hour ago, Deino said:

Underwhelming but can't blame the guy for missing. Penalties are always 50:50 at the end of the day. 

That simply isn't true. 

4 hours ago, sonic90 said:

That's interesting, I thought Frank was just diffusing the situation by lying about Barkley being the pen taker but if he questioned Jorginho and Willian publicly then there must be truth to that, especially when a not very prominent player like Barkley rushes over to take it with such conviction. 

I have to say that it doesn't make sense for a non starter to be 1st choice pen taker though, Jorginho has much more experience taking them for Chelsea alone than Barkley and is a starter so he should be 1st for me.

To further (over)analyse the pen situation though there must be a reason why 2 or 3 players intervened, my guess is that they were concerned about a player who came off the bench is taking the penalty and if you watch the interactions there wasn't a great deal of arguing, it was mostly Barkley saying he's OK to take it. 

Spot on. People reiterating Frank's post match comments seem to overlook this very important detail: Brakley isn't a guaranteed starter, he started three out of seven matches this season so far, why would he be our designated penalty taker if half the time he's not even on the pitch?

Lamps was clearly protecting his player in public, and so he should, but I'm sure behind the closed doors there was a different conversation. Also, the whole argument about who takes penalties and what is the pecking order should have been established before the season started so we won't have to witness the same scene again.

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

Seriously, though, which part of "I have no idea what they were doing" counts as "calling them out"?  (To be honest, I didn't see the interview when it was discussed, so I am genuinely interested in the terms  used and how much is confirmation bias)

 

I'm simply standing my ground on a football matter, as I occasionally do. If that's having a spat, fine, but I find that ironic coming from you, the chap who seems to spend his entire life criticising other posters 🤣

 

I used the term "calling them out" but you can use any term you want. The point is he said it, and it backs up the argument Barkley was the designated penalty taker, for if he wasn't, he may have had a better idea of what they were doing, and his comments may not have gone down well with the players concerned.

 

Anyroad up yorkley me ol mucker, you can believe anything you want. It's all good. I'm through arguing on this point.

I don't understand why so many people think the first choice penalty taker has to be a regular starter. The best penalty taker is first choice regardless of his squad status. If he's not on the pitch then the second choice penalty taker takes it. It's not rocket surgery. Not allowing your best penalty taker to take a penalty because he doesn't start enough matches would be f**king stupid.

I'm very surprised that Barkley appears to be our first choice penalty taker though rather than Jorginho or even Tammy, but that has nothing to do with squad status. And if he's so easily 'distracted' then it's probably for the best if he doesn't take any more.

3 hours ago, abramovich said:

Spot on. People reiterating Frank's post match comments seem to overlook this very important detail: Brakley isn't a guaranteed starter, he started three out of seven matches this season so far, why would he be our designated penalty taker if half the time he's not even on the pitch?

Lamps was clearly protecting his player in public, and so he should, but I'm sure behind the closed doors there was a different conversation. Also, the whole argument about who takes penalties and what is the pecking order should have been established before the season started so we won't have to witness the same scene again.

Its like when Cahill wouldn't start but then be subbed on and take the captains armband.

6 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Actually he wasn't very successful doing so last season. He missed in the CC final shoot-out, replicating the exact kick he took in the semi, which was converted. He stepped up later in the EL semi-final shoot-out and he converted.

Jorginho has a quality record with penalties. 

13 scored, 1 missed excluding shoot outs(and scored the rebound anyway).

Barkley is now scored 3 missed 2. 

I know his technique isnt everyones cup of tea, but Jorginho should be the designated kicker, based on sustained success over a number of years. Yes he missed in the shoot out, but ive seen lampard miss in a shoot out, and he was one the very best from the spot. 

 

edit. Jorginho record for chelsea including shoot outs is 5 from 6. 4 of those were bigger pressure penalties than the one last night.

 

Edited September 18, 20196 yr by big blue

1 hour ago, big blue said:

Jorginho has a quality record with penalties.

 

Not disputing that. I was correcting the assertion that he was very successful with spot kicks last season. He took 3 or 4, and missed one of those, and a crucial one too. It's not a bad conversion rate and he has a better record than Barkley over his entire career, as you say, but that doesn't change the fact it's the manager's decision, not ours.

I think these things led to Barkley missing the peno: 1. He haven't played a lot 2. He thought his name in the scoresheet would put him back in Frank's plans. 3. He had his own agenda instead of the team's. 4. Penalty is all about controlling nerves this time all the above didn't help.

Just one penalty. No worries. We just need a good performance at Valencia and we are back on track.

14 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

I'm simply standing my ground on a football matter, as I occasionally do. If that's having a spat, fine, but I find that ironic coming from you, the chap who seems to spend his entire life criticising other posters 🤣

 

I used the term "calling them out" but you can use any term you want. The point is he said it, and it backs up the argument Barkley was the designated penalty taker, for if he wasn't, he may have had a better idea of what they were doing, and his comments may not have gone down well with the players concerned.

 

Anyroad up yorkley me ol mucker, you can believe anything you want. It's all good. I'm through arguing on this point.

No, that's all fair enough @Davey Baby, like I said, I didn't see the interview so wondered if Frank had said they were a pair of tossers or not.

I didn't see it as players interfering with a team-mate, more as team-mates discussing the situation, but then I wasn't on the pitch at the time, so can't be sure. 

I do think @dkw has a point that if Barkley is that mentally weak he really shouldn't be playing professional football, as that level of wimpiness would make Morata look like Drogba.

Still, it's all done now, so once you have apologised for the dreadful calumny you posted about me criticising other posters, we can get back to our lovely witty relationship.

16 hours ago, Deino said:

Penalties are always 50:50 at the end of the day.

Wow some real football cliches there is that literally you Jamie Redknapp ?

13 hours ago, Davey Baby said:

 

Not disputing that. I was correcting the assertion that he was very successful with spot kicks last season. He took 3 or 4, and missed one of those, and a crucial one too. It's not a bad conversion rate and he has a better record than Barkley over his entire career, as you say, but that doesn't change the fact it's the manager's decision, not ours.

5 out of 6 pens is very successful though. If lamps has made barkley his pen taker, then i also think that is a very questionable judgement on his part. 3 and half years since barkley last took a pen outside of a shoot out. He shouldnt be on the pens imo.

I do tend to agree though, if barkley has been the designated kicker, everyone shouldve just left him to it. 

If he wasnt the designated kicker, then its a sh*t show from barkley, although i dont think he is the sort of plager that would pull that trick. 

5 out of 6 pens is very successful though. If lamps has made barkley his pen taker, then i also think that is a very questionable judgement on his part. 3 and half years since barkley last took a pen outside of a shoot out. He shouldnt be on the pens imo.
I do tend to agree though, if barkley has been the designated kicker, everyone shouldve just left him to it. 
If he wasnt the designated kicker, then its a sh*t show from barkley, although i dont think he is the sort of plager that would pull that trick. 

Why does Frank need to make him or anyone the taker? The players can decide themselves being mature enough.

20 minutes ago, evissy said:

38 minutes ago, big blue said:

5 out of 6 pens is very successful though. If lamps has made barkley his pen taker, then i also think that is a very questionable judgement on his part. 3 and half years since barkley last took a pen outside of a shoot out. He shouldnt be on the pens imo.
I do tend to agree though, if barkley has been the designated kicker, everyone shouldve just left him to it. 
If he wasnt the designated kicker, then its a sh*t show from barkley, although i dont think he is the sort of plager that would pull that trick. 

Why does Frank need to make him or anyone the taker? The players can decide themselves being mature enough.

Players have ego's to feed, managers need results. Maturity has nothing to do with it.

3 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Still, it's all done now, so once you have apologised for the dreadful calumny you posted about me criticising other posters, we can get back to our lovely witty relationship.

 

I apologise profusely squire, especially for including that laughing emoji when i meant to include the one with the wiggly bum.

14 minutes ago, coco said:

Players have ego's to feed, managers need results. Maturity has nothing to do with it.

Good points we have seen recently bad blood between Mane and Salah, sometimes personal ego or jealousy is more important than the result.

The funny thing with Barkley is if we play 3 CBs Barkley will most likely be on the bench.

My intuition thinks Tomori might be a good penalty taker and that would that be a lovely opportunity for chant along the lines of the old chant about Vialli.

 

 

Edited September 19, 20196 yr by strider6004

I'm surprised professional pundits aren't talking about the mental side of a substitute taking a high pressure penalty, there had to be a reason why Willian and Jorginho had something to say about it.

Just looking at our history, Anelka didn't want to take a penalty until he had to in the 2008 final expressly because he came on as a sub and wasn't mentally ready.

1 hour ago, evissy said:

2 hours ago, big blue said:

5 out of 6 pens is very successful though. If lamps has made barkley his pen taker, then i also think that is a very questionable judgement on his part. 3 and half years since barkley last took a pen outside of a shoot out. He shouldnt be on the pens imo.
I do tend to agree though, if barkley has been the designated kicker, everyone shouldve just left him to it. 
If he wasnt the designated kicker, then its a sh*t show from barkley, although i dont think he is the sort of plager that would pull that trick. 

Why does Frank need to make him or anyone the taker? The players can decide themselves being mature enough.

To avoid the whole pogba/rashford debacle. By having that discussion before each penalty, where by 2 or 3 players want to take it, it is only adding more pressure to the situation. If you grab the ball and take the pen off someone with a better record thsn yourself, then it just leaves you open to criticism. 

 

Don’t know how much is truth about who should have taken the penalty and how much is just smoke. I can understand why Lamps may have made Barkley main taker though. SFL was the top man at taking penalties and his style was straight forward by running up to the ball and striking it hard into somewhere he had pre decided and if struck into that area with power the keeper couldn’t reach it. None of these prancing, stuttering run ups trying to see which way the keeper goes last second and then the chip down the middle.

i think Barkleys style is more like Lamps and  I’m sure in training this is the way he strikes them time and time again. It’s a style of penalty I’d prefer too, absolutely hate Pogba pens. Wasn’t that fussed on Edens although is was generally successful and not a fan of Jorginho’s style. 

 

This issue has grown legs.

Here's another one.

I didn't even think it was a penalty.