So we're here again..... sigh.

I think it's a very simple answer. You bring in a manager, and then you allow them to control all aspects of the first team, including transfers. The less middle men, the better. Otherwise, nothing will change. They HAVE to have the final say on who comes, and who goes.

Secondly, as it's quite obvious that the club isn't prepared to spend big these days, the emphasis has to be on youth, or at least (via the manager) bringing in players from elsewhere with plenty of their best years ahead of them. Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi look good enough, for starters. Abraham I'm not convinced by, but he ought to be given a proper chance, as does Barkley (when fit). Palmieri may turn out to be a decent signing, we don't know yet. Ampadu has looked decent for a kid his age, as has Christensen, who is slightly ahead in terms of his progression.

Regarding all other first team players, Hazard, Azpi, Kante, possibly Rudiger apart - would you really be devastated if any of them left?

Edited April 3, 20188 yr by Elliott

42 minutes ago, Elliott said:

So we're here again..... sigh.

I think it's a very simple answer. You bring in a manager, and then you allow them to control all aspects of the first team, including transfers. The less middle men, the better. Otherwise, nothing will change. They HAVE to have the final say on who comes, and who goes.

Secondly, as it's quite obvious that the club isn't prepared to spend big these days, the emphasis has to be on youth, or at least (via the manager) bringing in players from elsewhere with plenty of their best years ahead of them. Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi look good enough, for starters. Abraham I'm not convinced by, but he ought to be given a proper chance, as does Barkley (when fit). Palmieri may turn out to be a decent signing, we don't know yet. Ampadu has looked decent for a kid his age, as has Christensen, who is slightly ahead in terms of his progression.

Regarding all other first team players, Hazard, Azpi, Kante, possibly Rudiger apart - would you really be devastated if any of them left?

Honestly I think giving managers complete control over who goes and who comes in, would be a complete disaster, especially when managers barely last 2 seasons here. 

I think we need to get back to the approach we took between 2012-2014, and look to sign young players with high potential. Only this time, we actually bring in manager that has a history of developing young talent, including players from the club's academy. 

There is no point bringing in managers like mourinho and conte, who like to work with 14/15 world class senior players, because the reality is, we can no longer give them that level of squad any more, so eventually it will lead to discontent, and put the club back into disarray. 

We don't have the big money to spend any more so we need to bring in a director of football that knows how to attract the best young talent around. 

I'm really hoping for a pochetino or klopp type manager, if we aren't going to challenge for the title with the 2 Manchester clubs, I want to see us build a young exciting team, that plays without fear, and gives us an identity and platform to build on for the next 3-5 years, even if costs us a trophy or 2 in the short term. 

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

Agreed. But who is fulfilling that role at present? As it doesn't seem to be Conte.

I would say it's on the head of scouting that reports to either marina or buck, or someone like that as the head of coaching previously reported to emenalo apparently. 

18 minutes ago, enigma said:

I would say it's on the head of scouting that reports to either marina or buck, or someone like that as the head of coaching previously reported to emenalo apparently. 

Any idea who the head of scouting is though? I tried looking it up but cannot find anything.

4 hours ago, Elliott said:

So we're here again..... sigh.

I think it's a very simple answer. You bring in a manager, and then you allow them to control all aspects of the first team, including transfers. The less middle men, the better. Otherwise, nothing will change. They HAVE to have the final say on who comes, and who goes.

Secondly, as it's quite obvious that the club isn't prepared to spend big these days, the emphasis has to be on youth, or at least (via the manager) bringing in players from elsewhere with plenty of their best years ahead of them. Loftus-Cheek and Hudson-Odoi look good enough, for starters. Abraham I'm not convinced by, but he ought to be given a proper chance, as does Barkley (when fit). Palmieri may turn out to be a decent signing, we don't know yet. Ampadu has looked decent for a kid his age, as has Christensen, who is slightly ahead in terms of his progression.

Regarding all other first team players, Hazard, Azpi, Kante, possibly Rudiger apart - would you really be devastated if any of them left?

Roman is a control freak. Love him or hate him. It will never change.

Apparently we paid 25.1m in agents fees last 12mths, the second most in the Premier League. How the f**k can we pay so much buying the sh*te we got? That seriously needs attention given our cost cutting in other areas.

From the 2011-2012 season and the 2013-2014 season these are some of the players we signed...

 

Musonda, Christensen, Hazard, Oscar, Azpi, Schurrle, Willian, Matic, Salah, Zouma, Courtois, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Cahill and Mata

 

What a ridiculous list of talented players. Now imagine if we had a manager that wasn't under extreme pressure to win trophies and was given time to actually integrate these players and build a team. Imagine what kind of position we would be in now? 

Also, whoever was in charge of transfers in those years needs to come back. Funnily enough, it might have been Emenalo and look at how much hate he received? 

Three key people need to go from the Club - Granovskia, Hazard, Courtois

Other who should depart - Pedro, Zappacosta, Bakayoko, one of Luiz/Cahill, possibly Fabregas.

 

The club should then take 2 seasons to add 5-6 quality players, not world class but just solid young players costing between 50m-75m each rather than the 25m-40m garbage players we are buying for last three seasons.

This is a very dangerous time for us as a club with a resurgent liverpool and spurs getting better each year. There is serious risk of us becoming a yoyo team competing for top4 like liverpool have been for last 10 years.

Edited April 3, 20188 yr by Orpington_Blue

8 hours ago, forbzy said:

Any idea who the head of scouting is though? I tried looking it up but cannot find anything.

this guy is head of international scouting. 

http://www.chelseafc.com/teams/management-team/scott-mclachlan.html

15 hours ago, forbzy said:

Agreed. But who is fulfilling that role at present? As it doesn't seem to be Conte.

Oh we 100% need a DoF. It's shocking we don't have one.

Someone who can work as a bridge between the board and the coach, who can identify a style of football that Chelsea play throughout the club, be here long term and push the coach to be integrating youth.

9 hours ago, charierre said:

Apparently we paid 25.1m in agents fees last 12mths, the second most in the Premier League. How the f**k can we pay so much buying the sh*te we got? That seriously needs attention given our cost cutting in other areas.

Trust me, that's not a lot in today's game. We are known as a club that refuses to pay over the odds to agents. 

United paid about that much for pogba alone.

1 hour ago, benjsross said:

Oh we 100% need a DoF. It's shocking we don't have one.

Someone who can work as a bridge between the board and the coach, who can identify a style of football that Chelsea play throughout the club, be here long term and push the coach to be integrating youth.

I remember when we brought in Avram Grant as our first DoF and everyone was up in arms about not needing a DoF and how European models were taking over are traditional ways...

10ish years later and the tune has changed!

10 hours ago, Sparkz said:

From the 2011-2012 season and the 2013-2014 season these are some of the players we signed...

 

Musonda, Christensen, Hazard, Oscar, Azpi, Schurrle, Willian, Matic, Salah, Zouma, Courtois, De Bruyne, Lukaku, Cahill and Mata

 

What a ridiculous list of talented players. Now imagine if we had a manager that wasn't under extreme pressure to win trophies and was given time to actually integrate these players and build a team. Imagine what kind of position we would be in now? 

Also, whoever was in charge of transfers in those years needs to come back. Funnily enough, it might have been Emenalo and look at how much hate he received? 

Our transfers have been perfectly fine over the past years, it's only this season that's been a real let down.

The problem is we have all these talented players that suit a particular style of attacking football and then we hire a manger that goes completely against what we are trying to build for the purpose of short term success. 

It doesn't seem like this will ever change. I'm getting tired of it quite frankly. 

1 minute ago, Remodez said:

Our transfers have been perfectly fine over the past years, it's only this season that's been a real let down.

The problem is we have all these talented players that suit a particular style of attacking football and then we hire a manger that goes completely against what we are trying to build for the purpose of short term success. 

It doesn't seem like this will ever change. I'm getting tired of it quite frankly. 

So the question is who keeps making the decisions about who we appoint as manager/head coach? 

There's a disconnect somewhere within the club, the brief regarding player scouting and recruitment is at odds with the managerial appointments so why isn't there someone within the club joining this up? Is it because we don't have a Director of Football? 

Michael Emenalo was a Technical Director whose job appeared to be overseeing the scouting network and academy but we don't know how much say (final say) in player recruitment for the first team. 

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs over job titles but it doesn't seem we entrust any one person to build the first team with an overall vision for playing style etc.  

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

So the question is who keeps making the decisions about who we appoint as manager/head coach? 

There's a disconnect somewhere within the club, the brief regarding player scouting and recruitment is at odds with the managerial appointments so why isn't there someone within the club joining this up? Is it because we don't have a Director of Football? 

Michael Emenalo was a Technical Director whose job appeared to be overseeing the scouting network and academy but we don't know how much say (final say) in player recruitment for the first team. 

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs over job titles but it doesn't seem we entrust any one person to build the first team with an overall vision for playing style etc.  

Lack of director of football could be the reason. Roman makes the final decision and as much as he wants us to use youth and play attacking football, he still can't resist the lure of titles and instant success. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. The fact that we don't seem to have anyone higher up to tell him he can't have it both ways is quite frankly bizarre. 

City accomplished what we have been trying to do for years in a far, far shorter space of time. Guess you could say they learned from our mistakes and that's fine but my frustration is that we are still making the same mistakes every few years, we don't seem to be learning from it. 

It's just disheartening. 

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

So the question is who keeps making the decisions about who we appoint as manager/head coach? 

There's a disconnect somewhere within the club, the brief regarding player scouting and recruitment is at odds with the managerial appointments so why isn't there someone within the club joining this up? Is it because we don't have a Director of Football? 

Michael Emenalo was a Technical Director whose job appeared to be overseeing the scouting network and academy but we don't know how much say (final say) in player recruitment for the first team. 

Maybe I'm just splitting hairs over job titles but it doesn't seem we entrust any one person to build the first team with an overall vision for playing style etc.  

I think mourinho convinced the club (and probably himself) that he wanted to come back here to build a young exciting attacking team, and I think that is why he survived longer than most would've given the same results, but in hindsight, it wasn't the right appointment for the long term. 

I can understand why the club went for conte, we were scared of our status dropping after that 10th place finish, so we hired another winner to take us back into the top 4. I don't think it was ever seen as long term appointment.

Now we need to decide which direction we want go, and implement it in all aspects of the club, and show a little patience, which I think roman has been trying to do for the last 5 years. 

1 hour ago, Remodez said:

Lack of director of football could be the reason. Roman makes the final decision and as much as he wants us to use youth and play attacking football, he still can't resist the lure of titles and instant success. He wants to have his cake and eat it too. The fact that we don't seem to have anyone higher up to tell him he can't have it both ways is quite frankly bizarre. 

City accomplished what we have been trying to do for years in a far, far shorter space of time. Guess you could say they learned from our mistakes and that's fine but my frustration is that we are still making the same mistakes every few years, we don't seem to be learning from it. 

It's just disheartening. 

 

50 minutes ago, big blue said:

I think mourinho convinced the club (and probably himself) that he wanted to come back here to build a young exciting attacking team, and I think that is why he survived longer than most would've given the same results, but in hindsight, it wasn't the right appointment for the long term. 

I can understand why the club went for conte, we were scared of our status dropping after that 10th place finish, so we hired another winner to take us back into the top 4. I don't think it was ever seen as long term appointment.

Now we need to decide which direction we want go, and implement it in all aspects of the club, and show a little patience, which I think roman has been trying to do for the last 5 years. 

Good replies, thanks. 

So where do you think we should (and I suppose where do you think we will) go from here? 

We're without Champions League football and not looking likely to draw the biggest names in transfers so do we finally look in house and put some faith in the academy? 

As unlikely as it is to happen, do we turn to the vast promising youth we have next year and appoint a new head coach with the brief being that they've got to use them, especially in the Europa League, rather than signing a raft of new players? 

So in theory you sell the likes of Pedro, Cahill, Luiz, Fabregas and then say to the likes of Ampadu, Hudson-Odoi, Loftus-Cheek, Barkley... "Okay, show us what you can do". 

With the exception of Hudson-Odoi, they've all played enough first team football to have an idea of their ability and haven't looked out of place playing good football. 

You'd still need to make one or two new signings as well but if ever there was an opportunity for the club to put their money where their mouth is regarding the academy, it's next season? 

The club have been looking to get back an English/British core to the team, evidenced by the signings of Drinkwater and Barkley and the failed pursuits of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Kyle Walker and the rumoured interest in Andy Carroll so why not offload some of those currently on the fringes and promote those already within the club. 

On 4/2/2018 at 04:01, the special one said:

Copy Spurs - solid defence, perfect balance between physicality/ability/possession in midfield, potent attack.

The same Spurs who still haven't won anything? The same Spurs who have won 2 trophies in the last 26 years and that's 2 league cups. 

No thank you, Tottenham are just the media darlings at the moment, the pundits' favourite underdog because they've got some star English players.

And it's not about being bitter here but we shouldn't be looking at Tottenham, we should be looking at our core players. Our spine is completely sh*t, nobody next to Kante, nobody fit enough to replace last seasons David Luiz, nobody to lead the line and a goalkeeper who's looking pretty average. Until we improve upon our key areas we won't win the league again any time soon.  

On 4/3/2018 at 08:32, RIP Mourinho said:

First and foremost sort out our transfers. We've bought a LOT of sh*t in recent years. 

Following that our next priority is to keep Hazard & Kante, without him we have a bottom half of the league standard midfield. 

Build a squad more suited to a back 4 as we will inevitably go back to soon. 

 

Bad form doesn't exclude him, without Hazard we are nothing in attack. Conte isn't utilising Hazard well enough because we can't get the ball to him, we can't keep possession, Hazard plays better when we have the ball more.

A possession playing coming in and playing from deep hazard >>> counter attacking running away from the ball and making runs Hazard

Young players coming through is always fun but the world of football is moving forwards at such a pace that i believe we will be left behind if we tried. Currently i believe we have the fifth best squad in the league. It's full of holes, lacking depth and quality. If we want to actually compete with the best in this league and in Europe we need to go out and buy the best players on the market, because that is what they are doing.
If we stay on the current path and look to sign the Drinkwaters and Barkleys of the world we'll just be left further and further behind until we reach Arsenal-land hoping to win a FA-cup here and there with no chance in the league or Europe.

 

9 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

Good replies, thanks. 

So where do you think we should (and I suppose where do you think we will) go from here? 

We're without Champions League football and not looking likely to draw the biggest names in transfers so do we finally look in house and put some faith in the academy? 

As unlikely as it is to happen, do we turn to the vast promising youth we have next year and appoint a new head coach with the brief being that they've got to use them, especially in the Europa League, rather than signing a raft of new players? 

So in theory you sell the likes of Pedro, Cahill, Luiz, Fabregas and then say to the likes of Ampadu, Hudson-Odoi, Loftus-Cheek, Barkley... "Okay, show us what you can do". 

With the exception of Hudson-Odoi, they've all played enough first team football to have an idea of their ability and haven't looked out of place playing good football. 

You'd still need to make one or two new signings as well but if ever there was an opportunity for the club to put their money where their mouth is regarding the academy, it's next season? 

The club have been looking to get back an English/British core to the team, evidenced by the signings of Drinkwater and Barkley and the failed pursuits of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Kyle Walker and the rumoured interest in Andy Carroll so why not offload some of those currently on the fringes and promote those already within the club. 

I would definitely go with the youth. Keep the core team (willian, hazard, azpi, kante are the must haves for me). 

Would not mind a squad of :

GKs: Tibo/new GK, Willy

CBs: Andreas (HG), Rudi, Zouma, GC (HG)

RBs: Azpi, Zappa

LBs: Palmeiri, Alonso

CMs: Kante, Baka, DD (HG), RLC (HG), Barkley (HG), Ampadu (HG)

RW: Willian, Boga (HG)

LW: Hazard, CHO (HG)

ST: Morata, Giroud

I feel this would be the right mix of experience and youth. Players like Andreas (yes still counting him as youth), RLC, CHO, Ampadu should be given oppurtunities in the europa league rather than buying average players like carroll. Would not want barkley in the squad, but given the stakes, we can take a punt on him. Hazard will be tricky to keep, but if we can then great, otherwise we have no option but to sell him for good money. 

I feel there could be a silver lining in all of this. 1st is obvious - our academy can get a real shot. 2nd - we can probably have a replica of the last season, where we needed to focus on lesser tournaments and hence the first 11 could do their job brilliantly. This year, we have looked exhausted almost every game at about the 60th/70th minute. The same players have been run to the ground by conte.

It will be a vital decision. Buying a squad full of average players or keeping the likes of cesc, pedro, luiz can hardly do us any good at all. 

4-2-3-1
Courtois (Heaton/Eduardo)
Azpi (Rudiger/Zappacosta) - Albiol (Zouma) - Rudiger (Christensen/Cahill) - Alonso (Emerson/Azpi)
Kante (Bakayoko/Scott) - Ndombele (Drinkwater/Fabregas/Ampadu)
Willian (Felipe Anderson) - Mount or Maddison (Hazard/Felipe Anderson) - Hazard (Hudson-Odoi)
Morata (Giroud/Arp)

3-4-3
Courtois (Heaton/Eduardo)
Azpi (Albiol) - Albiol (Christensen/Ampadu) - Rudiger (Cahill)
Felipe Anderson (Moses/Zappacosta/Sterling) - Kante (Bakayoko/Scott) - Ndombele (Drinkwater/Fabregas/Ampadu) - Alonso (Emerson/Castillo)
Willian (Felipe Anderson/Mount or Maddison) - Morata (Giroud/Arp) - Hazard (Willian/Hudson-Odoi)

In: Heaton, Albiol, Felipe Anderson, Ndombele, Mount or James Maddison, Zouma, Arp
Out: Caballero, Luiz, Barkley, Batshuayi, Pedro

Would prefer Isco for Mount/Maddison, Alderweireld for Albiol, Weigl for Bakayoko/Fabregas, Luis Suarez for Morata/Giroud, Oblak for Courtois - but unrealistic imho.

Edited April 4, 20188 yr by the special one

I think the next manager will move away from the 3 at the back, it's just not working as well now. With a 3-5-2 we lack creativity up front. With a 3-4-3, we get overrun in the centre of midfield. 

I would expect us to move back to a 4-2-3-1 or a 4-3-3.

That will mean quite the change in personnel.

In goal, I suspect it'll be the same as this year:

Courtois, Cabellero

In defence, I don't think Alonso will be as effective at fullback, he's at his best going forward, not defensively. So we might see more of Emerson. Moses and Zappa are both not very good, i#'d like to see us sign an actual quality RB. At CB, I believe either Cahill or Luiz will leave, but not both. Probably Luiz. We'll bring Zouma back and that will give us Rudiger, Christensen, Zouma, Cahill for the 4 CB positions, and Ampadu if you include him, which...isn't great, but we're unlikely to sign a top quality CB, simply because we already have the numbers for that position. I'd sell Moses and probably keep Zappa as the backup, just because he's faster and offers more than Moses usually. But I'm not sure where that leaves Dave, probably at RB and we won't sign anyone else.

That would give us: Emerson, Alonso, Rudiger, Christensen, Zouma, Cahill, Ampadu, Azpilicueta, Zappacosta

In midfield, obviously Kante has to stay, but we desperately DESPERATELY need a quality CM alongside him. Drinkwater isn't the answer. Barkley isn't the answer. Bakayoko doesn't even understand the question. Ideally I'd like to see Drinkwater sold, Bakayoko loaned until he can recover some value. Loftus-Cheek should come in and finally be given a proper chance. I don't think he'd do well in a 4-2-3-1, as he's not defensive enough to sit in the 2, he could potentially play in the CAM position of the 3, but he's more of a box-to-box player who I think would do better in a 3 man midfield. A new signing is a must though, and not a second-rate, injured player. Someone good who will come in and actually help Kante. Fabregas should stay, but go back to being an impact player like he was last season. I'd defintely get rid of Pedro, he just doesn't offer enough, barring the odd goal, and give Hudson-Odoi more of a shot. I

That would give us: Kante, NEWCM, Fabregas, Loftus-Cheek, Barkley, Hazard, Willian, NEWAM, Hudson-Odoi

Up front...I'm not impressed with Morata. I'm not impressed with Giroud. But I doubt we'll sign anyone else. I think Batshayui deserves one more change, under a manager who is actually willing to use him.

So that would be: Morata, Batshayui, Giroud

 

So that squad would be (assuming a 4-2-3-1 formation, which I think is the most likely):

GK: Courtois, Cabellero, Blackman

LB: Emerson, Alonso
CB: Rudiger, Cahill, Ampadu
CB: Christensen, Zouma
RB: Azpilicueta, Zappacosta

DM: Kante, Ampadu
DM: NEWPLAYER, Fabregas

LAM: Hazard, Hudson-Odoi
CAM: Lofus-Cheek, Barkley
RAM: Willian, NEWPLAYER

ST: Morata, Batshayui, Giroud

 

Transfers out would be:

Luiz - Sold
Moses - Sold
Bakayoko - Loaned
Drinkwater - Sold
Pedro - Sold
ABraham - Loaned
Aina - Loaned
Baba Rahman - I think he's got another loan spell next year already
Baker - Sold
Boga - Sold
Clarke-Salter - Loaned
Hector - Sold
Kalas - Sold
Kane - Sold
Kenedy - Sold
Miazga - Sold
Mount - Loaned
Musonda - Loaned
Nathan - Sold
Omeruo - Sold
Palmer - Sold
Pantic - Sold
Pasalic - Sold
Piazon - Sold
Tomori - Loaned/Sold
Van Ginkel - Sold
Ugbo - Sold

 

1 hour ago, ForeverCarefree said:

 

Good replies, thanks. 

So where do you think we should (and I suppose where do you think we will) go from here? 

We're without Champions League football and not looking likely to draw the biggest names in transfers so do we finally look in house and put some faith in the academy? 

As unlikely as it is to happen, do we turn to the vast promising youth we have next year and appoint a new head coach with the brief being that they've got to use them, especially in the Europa League, rather than signing a raft of new players? 

So in theory you sell the likes of Pedro, Cahill, Luiz, Fabregas and then say to the likes of Ampadu, Hudson-Odoi, Loftus-Cheek, Barkley... "Okay, show us what you can do". 

With the exception of Hudson-Odoi, they've all played enough first team football to have an idea of their ability and haven't looked out of place playing good football. 

You'd still need to make one or two new signings as well but if ever there was an opportunity for the club to put their money where their mouth is regarding the academy, it's next season? 

The club have been looking to get back an English/British core to the team, evidenced by the signings of Drinkwater and Barkley and the failed pursuits of Oxlade-Chamberlain, Kyle Walker and the rumoured interest in Andy Carroll so why not offload some of those currently on the fringes and promote those already within the club. 

I think the perfect time to do that was a few years ago back when we still had Terry in the squad to help integrate our youth and talented well rounded youth like Ake and Chalobah hanging around waiting for chances. 

But yes, I think this is long overdue. It's something the club has been progressing towards for so long but has never actually had the balls to see through.

I personally don't think there's any reason to sell any of those players you listed though as long as they are happy being backup/subs. They might not be great but their experience will help with the integration and development of our youth. Selling Luiz in particular would be counter productive to the goal given his large influence on our youth players. 

Edited April 4, 20188 yr by Remodez

I want the whole lot of them out. That's what I want to see. Keep Kante, Azpi and Emerson. As for who's coming in, no idea. Club is a mess right now. Any transfer discussion now is hypothetical.