Just for reference:

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-4-4-2-formation-3557644

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2015/09/02/guide-to-4-4-2/

https://www.surefiresoccer.com/understanding-the-4-4-2-formation/

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ryan-giggs/profil/spieler/3406

https://www.premierleague.com/players/335/Ryan-Giggs/overview

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ryan-giggs-at-40-how-the-manchester-united-midfielder-did-it-8970866.html

 

 

This position in a 4-4-2 is called "Wide Midfielder" and differs from the Wingers and the Inside Forwards

This is just a fact

Jardim uses 4-4-2 as it's flexible and can often look like many other formations with different players playing in certain positions. At Monaco, his two wide players were not your typical wide players and spent a lot of time drifting centrally similarly to Hazard under Mourinho. He usually has one out and out striker and a second striker that played a similar role to Griezmann at Atletico who would drop into the hole to orche strategy with his midfielders. His width would come from the full backs that advanced in a similar fashion to our wingbacks. He played 2 midfielders, one holding that recycled possession with the centre backs and one box to box who would drive from deep to join attacks.

They attacked with width and often cross the ball using fullbacks combining with their wide players. They attacked heavily in numbers and often played long direct balls to increase the speed of transitions from defence to attack. They never played long balls without purpose though as they had so many players forwards and so much movement they tended to fashion space in which balls could be played forwards. 

They defended quite openly and marked man to man. A very aggressive man marking press with a compact center where they would aim to tirelessly win the ball back. 

They don't dominate the ball but are never dominated due to the pace in which they play. They attack in ridiculous numbers and at ridiculous speeds and defend tirelessly. I genuinely have no idea how they are so successful as they are so seemingly naive in their approach. 

Games with Jardim rarely see one team dominating the ball as they force teams to open up due to their tireless pressure. Same thing happened to Man City who struggled to deal with them.

Reading a bit more into this. Seems Jardim (and Campos) are very close with Jorge Mendes. Which might be helpful for us to rebuild our squad and convince players to join given our lack of CL football.

 

20 hours ago, Eden17 said:

Just for reference:

https://www.thoughtco.com/the-4-4-2-formation-3557644

http://outsideoftheboot.com/2015/09/02/guide-to-4-4-2/

https://www.surefiresoccer.com/understanding-the-4-4-2-formation/

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/ryan-giggs/profil/spieler/3406

https://www.premierleague.com/players/335/Ryan-Giggs/overview

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/news-and-comment/ryan-giggs-at-40-how-the-manchester-united-midfielder-did-it-8970866.html

 

 

This position in a 4-4-2 is called "Wide Midfielder" and differs from the Wingers and the Inside Forwards

This is just a fact

Only just saw this.

I was never disputing the fact that the position is a wide midfielder. Anyone who grew up watching English football in the 90's, when most teams played 442, would have no problem describing the wide players as wingers. For you to try to correct me was extremely pendantic, and patronising. 

Anyway moving on from this, 

8 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

Reading a bit more into this. Seems Jardim (and Campos) are very close with Jorge Mendes. Which might be helpful for us to rebuild our squad and convince players to join given our lack of CL football.

 

Bringing in Campos and Jardim would be great. Although would roman be willing to relinquish that much power? 

I think a director of football is as vital as the new manager in the summer. 

1 hour ago, big blue said:

Only just saw this.

I was never disputing the fact that the position is a wide midfielder. Anyone who grew up watching English football in the 90's, when most teams played 442, would have no problem describing the wide players as wingers. For you to try to correct me was extremely pendantic, and patronising.

I'm sorry if it came out that way, I didn't mean to

All I was trying to say is that Hazard's position and role would be different if we played a 4-4-2

Have a nice day :)

I think if we are able to keep hold of Kante in our team, he has such dynamism, purpose and strength that initial formations have only a notional importance. Hazard in any formation would still have the licence to be creative if you had Kante and, say, a similar strong roaming midfielder (I would love to see Kante and Pogba in our midfield, but I know we can't compete moneywise) galloping through the midfield, pressing the opposition and nicking back possession.

Hazard is important of course, but we shouldn't be blinkered either. Whilst I don't doubt his importance to us and my sphincter tightens every time I read a rumour of him leaving, let's be honest his impact has been negligible (that's being diplomatic) these last couple of months and he has largely been given a free pass, and yet still pouts and mutters when he is inevitably substituted having not had a shot on target.

We need a team that consistently develops and improves with occasional critical changes to important positions. We shouldn't continue on the merry go round of wholesale changes to the team and to the manager.

I am happy with any manager that wants to play the football I like, which is high tempo high pressing football, which I think is entertaining, and then is give the chance to create a settled squad that is continually improved (Crikey, have I just described Spuds!).

I, along with a significant number of our fan base, just lose interest in this constant soap opera of hiring and firing managers and the apparent lack of engagement and commitment to the club from players and management.

I just want us in the papers for the quality of our football. It's not even about winning things for me, its about entertaining football and competing.

It would be wonderful. He didn't won anything here at pt with sporting but took them to the second place qualifying for the cl group stage after the worst season in the club history (7th place) and with a mediocre squad. Great job at olympiakos, champion at monaco...

Jorge Mendes is friends with monaco rather than Jardim himself, and Mendes is an expert at making great deals out of awful players, but who knows

The great thing about Ligue 1 is that alot of full matches are readily posted to youtube.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YVR5XcyFiE

 

Edited April 10, 20188 yr by Total-Football

Interested & excited of the thought of Jardim & Campos coming in. A coach & DoF that are on the same wavelength just makes sense surely?

Didn’t know much about this guy but having read up on him, I actually think he would be a good fit. 

Looking at the way things are going, we definitely need someone who has a proven record of maximising the squad and youth WHILST winning. 

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2018/4/12/17214450/scouting-report-leonardo-jardim-the-man-who-doesnt-have-time-to-whine

 

Very good article on Jardim

49 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Looking at the way things are going, we definitely need someone who has a proven record of maximising the squad and youth WHILST winning. 

That does sound an afwul lot like Wenger...

On 4/7/2018 at 11:22, big blue said:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/syndication.bleacherreport.com/amp/1720086-the-15-best-wingers-in-world-football.amp.html

Alex Ferguson, and Arsene Wenger, both described as playing a 442 with wingers. Maybe you tell them that it doesn't exist in 442. 

Or are you getting confused by the names of the positions you use on fifa? 

Pires was more a LF, as was Ljungberg (RF)!

Edited April 12, 20188 yr by Argo

2 hours ago, Geert The Flyer said:

That does sound an afwul lot like Wenger...

He said winning... 

35 minutes ago, Argo said:

Pires was more a LF, as was Ljungberg (RF)!

I think you missed the point mate. I was talking about how common it was to refer to the wide midfielders in a 442 s wingers, especially in 90's. 

19 minutes ago, big blue said:

I think you missed the point mate. I was talking about how common it was to refer to the wide midfielders in a 442 s wingers, especially in 90's. 

In general maybe but as you pointed out Wenger's sides i don't think Pires and Ljungberg were ever considered or reffered to as wingers, it was Ash, Lauren and occasionally Henry when he drifted that provided the width for that side.

apparently bruce buck and guy lawrence aren't as keen due to him not being a global appeal. basically, from a business pov he doesn't fit the image of the club, but from a footballing pov, he is an ideal candidate. sarri is also interested and was impressed by chelsea talks. 

1 hour ago, enigma said:

apparently bruce buck and guy lawrence aren't as keen due to him not being a global appeal. basically, from a business pov he doesn't fit the image of the club, but from a footballing pov, he is an ideal candidate. sarri is also interested and was impressed by chelsea talks. 

Not laughing at you but the idea that Sarri does have global appeal is very funny

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2018/4/12/17214450/scouting-report-leonardo-jardim-the-man-who-doesnt-have-time-to-whine

 

Love the heading.

 

On 4/13/2018 at 02:58, didierforever said:

https://weaintgotnohistory.sbnation.com/2018/4/12/17214450/scouting-report-leonardo-jardim-the-man-who-doesnt-have-time-to-whine

 

Love the heading.

 

The review of him sounds really good. 

i don't mind him or sarri. jardim does integrate youth which, for me, is a huge plus. all the while he insists on good football and plays with a 433. sarri is also a great choice too. either way next season it is looking like we will finally see some good football and be entertained. 

I like his profile, believe he would achieve great things here if we give him 2-3 years of support. He lost 3/4 of his best players from season before, still did a decent job, someone like Conte would have quit on the spot in that situation. I reckon board/fans will give him time to build if he shows the will to promote youth players, not the 2 minutes cameo in 3:0 games.

Man, there really is a part in me that's hoping the next manager will give the same amount of time to the youth players as Conte. Why are people so eager to promote youth players ? Barr Spurs no one really promotes youth playlers unless they need a last minute replacement or someone is injured. Conte introduced Ampadu, what do you guys want ? He plays a youth player in the second half while you have 7 people on the bench that more than likely cost a big transfer fee and are on a big wage. That doesn't make any sense. For fans it may be fun to see a youth player getting some time, but it's a managerial nightmare. The reason why Monaco introduced so many young players is because they don't spend on big names, another thing people on this forum can go on about. It's BS to think that Jardim WILL by definition impliment youth.

1 hour ago, Geert The Flyer said:

Man, there really is a part in me that's hoping the next manager will give the same amount of time to the youth players as Conte. Why are people so eager to promote youth players ? Barr Spurs no one really promotes youth playlers unless they need a last minute replacement or someone is injured. Conte introduced Ampadu, what do you guys want ? He plays a youth player in the second half while you have 7 people on the bench that more than likely cost a big transfer fee and are on a big wage. That doesn't make any sense. For fans it may be fun to see a youth player getting some time, but it's a managerial nightmare. The reason why Monaco introduced so many young players is because they don't spend on big names, another thing people on this forum can go on about. It's BS to think that Jardim WILL by definition impliment youth.

Quite simple actually.

1. We have one of the best, if not the best academy and youth players in the world. Dont see how we can win youth cups year after year if that was not the case.

2. The replacements/squad players that we have got are not like the ones at bayern/RM. Its not like we have ribery, robben on the bench or muller. Would we really miss pedro if he was replaced by CHO? Would we miss barkley if he was replaced by RLC? I think some of them are easily replacabl.e

PSG beat Monaco 7-1.