Jorginho is.... (well now was) a Blue

[Gol15]

1 minute ago, Bob stark said:

The problem is with Kante out, Jorgi is an automatic starter. 

Didn't seem to matter for the past 2 seasons though.

[Bob stark]

Just now, Gol15 said:

Didn't seem to matter for the past 2 seasons though.

Not sure what do you mean by that. 

[Gol15]

Just now, Bob stark said:

Not sure what do you mean by that. 

It means it wasn't a problem for him being a starter for the past 2 seasons, specially when Kante was out injured.

[KonaKai Blue]

56 minutes ago, Term_X said:

If we don’t reach the Champions league it was all for nothing, at least with Frank We had the right players exiled.

If we had the right players exiled then why did we reach a position where Frank lost his job? Mistakes happen, Tuchel and Silva made a rare one but Jorgino is a constant. 

[KonaKai Blue]

11 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

The problem is with Kante out, Jorgi is an automatic starter. 

Needs to put faith in Gilmore 

[Bob stark]

Just now, KonaKai Blue said:

Needs to put faith in Gilmore 

Not in this setup and not what is required from our dm

[Gol15]

Just now, KonaKai Blue said:

If we had the right players exiled then why did we reach a position where Frank lost his job? Mistakes happen, Tuchel and Silva made a rare one but Jorgino is a constant. 

You would think that if Jorginho had been constantly playing bad for 3 seasons in a row that his managers would sell him as soon as they could but the reality is that every single one of them was  relying heavily on Jorginho as soon as they got the job, this was the case with Sarri, Lampard and also Tuchel.

1 bad game doesn't make 3 seasons bad. T.Silva has now had a big blunder vs West Brom in both games he played against them, but somehow it's all about Jorginho having a bad game... What's worse, to let down your teammates after not playing for 2 months by getting booked twice in 30 minutes or having a bad game and being subbed off?

[Deino]

9 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Suddenly it's so obvious that he has always been mediocre? If this was even half true, he would have been spending the past 3 seasons in a pub with Drinkwater. 1 bad game doesn't mean he's always bad for us, in fact this is only the second loss with him in the starting lineup this whole season.

I never said he was always bad. His only use for us is 5 yard passing. Everything else in his game is mediocre. I don't know how you can say any part in his game is at a good standard.

Of the following attribute of a good midfielder, which one is Jorginho good at?

Does he dictate play? No

Does he make accurate long passes to bypass defences? Barely

Does he score from long range? No

Does he make late runs to score goals? No

Does he consistently put in assists? No

Does he make good tackles? No

Does he break up counter attacks? Mediocre at best

Does he win aerial balls in the middle of the pitch? No

Does he outmuscle other midfielders and impose himself on the pitch? No

Does he provide gut-busting sprints to make a last ditch tackle without giving a foul away? No

Can he dribble out of danger in the middle of the pitch? No.

Can he play one touch passes to get himself out of danger in the middle of the pitch? Brilliant at it. 

There's no debate to be had. If a team wants to win a title, it won't be with him being a major player in it. He is at best someone who links defence and midfield. 

Even Allardyce figured it out. 

[KonaKai Blue]

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You would think that if Jorginho had been constantly playing bad for 3 seasons in a row that his managers would sell him as soon as they could but the reality is that every single one of them was  relying heavily on Jorginho as soon as they got the job, this was the case with Sarri, Lampard and also Tuchel.

1 bad game doesn't make 3 seasons bad. T.Silva has now had a big blunder vs West Brom in both games he played against them, but somehow it's all about Jorginho having a bad game... What's worse, to let down your teammates after not playing for 2 months by getting booked twice in 30 minutes or having a bad game and being subbed off?

Fans realised how limited and ineffective Jorgino was quite early into Sarris reign. I remember the boos when we narrowly beat Newcastle. He's only good when we are winning comfortably but never has that motm performance in him.

He's had plenty of bad games. Silva has a one off bad game and cost us but it's rare and that's why the fans aren't on his back. 

[KonaKai Blue]

1 minute ago, Deino said:

I never said he was always bad. His only use for us is 5 yard passing. Everything else in his game is mediocre. I don't know how you can say any part in his game is at a good standard.

Of the following attribute of a good midfielder, which one is Jorginho good at?

Does he dictate play? No

Does he make accurate long passes to bypass defences? Barely

Does he score from long range? No

Does he make late runs to score goals? No

Does he consistently put in assists? No

Does he make good tackles? No

Does he break up counter attacks? Mediocre at best

Does he win aerial balls in the middle of the pitch? No

Does he outmuscle other midfielders and impose himself on the pitch? No

Does he provide gut-busting sprints to make a last ditch tackle without giving a foul away? No

Can he dribble out of danger in the middle of the pitch? No.

Can he play one touch passes to get himself out of danger in the middle of the pitch? Brilliant at it. 

There's no debate to be had. If a team wants to win a title, it won't be with him being a major player in it. He is at best someone who links defence and midfield. 

Even Allardyce figured it out. 

Spot on.

[Bob stark]

2 minutes ago, Deino said:

I never said he was always bad. His only use for us is 5 yard passing. Everything else in his game is mediocre. I don't know how you can say any part in his game is at a good standard.

Of the following attribute of a good midfielder, which one is Jorginho good at?

Does he dictate play? No

Does he make accurate long passes to bypass defences? Barely

Does he score from long range? No

Does he make late runs to score goals? No

Does he consistently put in assists? No

Does he make good tackles? No

Does he break up counter attacks? Mediocre at best

Does he win aerial balls in the middle of the pitch? No

Does he outmuscle other midfielders and impose himself on the pitch? No

Does he provide gut-busting sprints to make a last ditch tackle without giving a foul away? No

Can he dribble out of danger in the middle of the pitch? No.

Can he play one touch passes to get himself out of danger in the middle of the pitch? Brilliant at it. 

There's no debate to be had. If a team wants to win a title, it won't be with him being a major player in it. He is at best someone who links defence and midfield. 

Even Allardyce figured it out. 

It is very simple with Jorgi. He is a very limited player. His best strength is keeping possession so he need to do this very2 well every game. The moment he can't do this, he is the worse player on the field because you get many2 negative and 0 positive. 

[Gol15]

7 minutes ago, KonaKai Blue said:

Fans realised how limited and ineffective Jorgino was quite early into Sarris reign. I remember the boos when we narrowly beat Newcastle. He's only good when we are winning comfortably but never has that motm performance in him.

He's had plenty of bad games. Silva has a one off bad game and cost us but it's rare and that's why the fans aren't on his back. 

If he really was so limited and ineffective he wouldn't be at our club for such a long time as a starter, full stop. Answer the question at least.

[Gol15]

8 minutes ago, Deino said:

I never said he was always bad. His only use for us is 5 yard passing. Everything else in his game is mediocre. I don't know how you can say any part in his game is at a good standard.

Of the following attribute of a good midfielder, which one is Jorginho good at?

Does he dictate play? No

Does he make accurate long passes to bypass defences? Barely

Does he score from long range? No

Does he make late runs to score goals? No

Does he consistently put in assists? No

Does he make good tackles? No

Does he break up counter attacks? Mediocre at best

Does he win aerial balls in the middle of the pitch? No

Does he outmuscle other midfielders and impose himself on the pitch? No

Does he provide gut-busting sprints to make a last ditch tackle without giving a foul away? No

Can he dribble out of danger in the middle of the pitch? No.

Can he play one touch passes to get himself out of danger in the middle of the pitch? Brilliant at it. 

There's no debate to be had. If a team wants to win a title, it won't be with him being a major player in it. He is at best someone who links defence and midfield. 

Even Allardyce figured it out. 

You missed all those long range passes and openings if you think that all he ever did was a 5 yard pass. He has done well for us overall, this game he was bad, that's all. Without him Sarri wouldn't manage to make the squad into a possession-based team in the first place, I don't know about you but he has made plenty of good range passes, he doesn't score from long range sadly but you can make that argument to all of our central midfielders, I think he has done a decent work when it comes to pressing, interceptions but he's not the best when it comes to tackles.

I think Lampard proved already that Jorginho isn't the reason why we did poorly overall, simply by losing his job while avoiding to play Jorginho. Yes he's guilty of playing bad this game but anything more than that is just too much. We had a 20+ game run without defeat with him in the starting lineup, the 2 games we lost with him this season we had our CB getting sent off in the first half, but from what I read earlier Tuchel even blames Jorginho for T.Silva getting 2 yellow cards after half an hour of play, is it interesting how everyone depend so much on Jorginho playing well?

[Scott Harris]

21 minutes ago, Deino said:

I'm pretty sure everyone knows and agrees that Jorginho is mediocre in everything but 5 yard passing.

Why do you think he's so good at penalties?

It's almost ridiculous that some people think and is okay with his only use in a team is 5 yard passing. 

A midfielder should be able to do at least half if not 90% of what a midfielder is supposed to do at a very high level. Especially in a team with ambition like ours and in a tough league like the PL

I will say what I said a few months back, Mikel used to do what Jorginho does, and Mikel was criticised for it until the day he left, but at least Mikel had a bit of power to his game and wouldn't be nulified just by being pressed heavily.

Jorginho isn't a terrible player, but he's not suited to games where he is going to be pressed hard, which is the majority of Premier League games. The only game in recent times where he has managed it well is against Everton, but that was far from the norm. 

Jorignho lacks a few things to be a long term success from midfield in the Premier League, pace and power being the most obvious ones. I can't think of a single player being successful in his position without having at least one of these attributes, not unless they were a specialist in an area that couldn't be ignored, like Fabregas with his passing.

 

[just]

3 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

I will say what I said a few months back, Mikel used to do what Jorginho does, and Mikel was criticised for it until the day he left, but at least Mikel had a bit of power to his game and wouldn't be nulified just by being pressed heavily.

Jorginho isn't a terrible player, but he's not suited to games where he is going to be pressed hard, which is the majority of Premier League games. The only game in recent times where he has managed it well is against Everton, but that was far from the norm. 

Jorignho lacks a few things to be a long term success from midfield in the Premier League, pace and power being the most obvious ones. I can't think of a single player being successful in his position without having at least one of these attributes, not unless they were a specialist in an area that couldn't be ignored, like Fabregas with his passing.

 

You forgot to mention Mikel's devastating pace Scott. He ran like Linford Christie compared to Jorginho. 

[PloKoon13]

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

I will say what I said a few months back, Mikel used to do what Jorginho does, and Mikel was criticised for it until the day he left, but at least Mikel had a bit of power to his game and wouldn't be nulified just by being pressed heavily.

Mikel actually contributed defensively though - he was a key part of the team’s shape. The guy was a brick wall. Over 120 minutes he was our best outfield player against Bayern in 2012.

I’d find Jorginho’s many, many deficiencies so much easier to forgive if he was top-notch at something fun like scoring free kicks or something. I could pretend he was a sexy flair player rather than a hugely flawed player who has consistently been a liability on multiple fronts.

[ForeverCarefree]

He is really good at hopping to be fair. 

10/10 hop skills. 

[dkw]

1 minute ago, ForeverCarefree said:

He is really good at hopping to be fair. 

10/10 hop skills. 

His pointing is also unbeatable,  maybe top 3 on Europe for pointing.

[KonaKai Blue]

27 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

If he really was so limited and ineffective he wouldn't be at our club for such a long time as a starter, full stop. Answer the question at least.

Many clubs not just ours have players like this for a number of economic reasons. We spent the money and need to try and make it work to keep his value high. Same reason why Kepa can't easily be sold and why Bakayoko is still a Chelsea player.

[KonaKai Blue]

9 minutes ago, PloKoon13 said:

Mikel actually contributed defensively though - he was a key part of the team’s shape. The guy was a brick wall. Over 120 minutes he was our best outfield player against Bayern in 2012.

I’d find Jorginho’s many, many deficiencies so much easier to forgive if he was top-notch at something fun like scoring free kicks or something. I could pretend he was a sexy flair player rather than a hugely flawed player who has consistently been a liability on multiple fronts.

I'm not even going go be fickle and defend Mikel although I can see the nostalgia. Mikel was just as bad in his own right. 

[Deino]

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You missed all those long range passes and openings if you think that all he ever did was a 5 yard pass. He has done well for us overall, this game he was bad, that's all. Without him Sarri wouldn't manage to make the squad into a possession-based team in the first place, I don't know about you but he has made plenty of good range passes, he doesn't score from long range sadly but you can make that argument to all of our central midfielders, I think he has done a decent work when it comes to pressing, interceptions but he's not the best when it comes to tackles.

I think Lampard proved already that Jorginho isn't the reason why we did poorly overall, simply by losing his job while avoiding to play Jorginho. Yes he's guilty of playing bad this game but anything more than that is just too much. We had a 20+ game run without defeat with him in the starting lineup, the 2 games we lost with him this season we had our CB getting sent off in the first half, but from what I read earlier Tuchel even blames Jorginho for T.Silva getting 2 yellow cards after half an hour of play, is it interesting how everyone depend so much on Jorginho playing well?

Because Jorginho's the only one at the moment that can link the ball from defence to Kova/Mount.

Kante as good as he is, tends to be marked by opposing midfielders because his one touch technique isn't as strong when he's under pressure.

Kova can do it but he's better at getting the ball and dribbling it forward. 

Gilmour is raw. His game is not developed yet so can't really judge him for now.

Sarri built a formation around Jorginho. Lampard wanted Rice and had to make do with Jorginho, Tuchel doesn't really have any other option because he regards experience seeing as he was appointed midseason.

Jorginho is a system-based player. As others have said, he is limited. You can insert Jorginho into Pep's team and he'd be amazing because in a team that can do everything, you just need a linker.

I didn't miss his long passes. He just barely makes them. Does he have it in his locker? I would say yes but he doesn't make it at a volume that I'd call it a good long passer of the ball like say a Pirlo/Fabregas/Xavi/Scholes.

You're making Jorginho out to be this hybrid Pirlo-Fabregas-Busquets type player when he isn't. 

[Nibs]

1 hour ago, coco said:

That may be the case, but Tommy was visibly triggered post match, he never once blamed the ref or Silva, but only 'the mistakes before both yellows', he was clearly rattled by Jorginhos performance and even added 'it's a wake up call for me'

Halle - f**king - ujah!!

It's taken a while, but it must have hit home with TT today that when Jorginho is bad, he takes bad to a whole new level. THAT is why Kante plays more often and if Kante's not fit put Gilmour in for a few games as we cannot afford a repeat of that again. Someone asked was it as bad as Bakayoko v Watford. No, but it comes a close second!

 

[coco]

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

But he kept him for 72 minutes, sounds like he just can't say that he's disappointed at T.Silva for allowing himself to get 2 yellow cards in 30 minutes of play after not playing at all for 2 months... First it's all down to CHO not scoring, now it's all down to Jorginho not playing well. I guess you'll be happy if Jorginho doesn't get to feature for us ever again, or?

Did he stay on the pitch because he was playing well?, or was it simply TT had no choice after the sending off, he had to stick with Jorginho as we were still leading, but then we went down to 4-1 and the game was gone, but then when Mount scored (70) it gave TT a bit of hope, so he hooked Jorginho for Havertz.

[RMH]

The problem is deeper than Jorginho. We could play next game with Kante and Kova and Palace could put past us 3, 4 or 5. We are just so inconsistent that it is unbelievable. still, that doesn't clear him from the sh*t show of today.

[TheGermanOne]

Wow. this was one of the worst performances of a professional football player in Premier League, Bundesliga or Ligue 1 that I have ever seen.
Obviously you as die hard Chelsea fans have seen this before from Jorginho but for Tuchel or me it was a real shock.