2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He carried his team to the WC finals so stop. This is the main reason why he won the award. Not because of La Liga and not because of CL, he wasn't the main man in those competitions and that's just a fact. Kovacic isn't the main man like Modric, never was actually so IDK why do you even try to make such a far fetched comparison...If you see it because they are from the same country, they may be but Kovacic is actually born in Austria so even there you're off a bit.

What does that have to do with my nationality? Do you even question yourself ever, or anyone else on that basis when 10 people mock and make fun of Jorginho despite everything? Give me a break you're way out of your depth here...I'm saying we will have too many midfielders and we should sell either Kovacic or Jorginho, you only get triggered because of Kovacic? Are you from Austria or Croatia then? Pretty known places for nationalism and fascism so I really wonder, do you hate Jorginho on your own national basis because he's from Brazil?

I brought up the Modric comparison to show how stupid your comments about Kovacic's end product is. 

I'm English for future reference by the way.

As for Jorginho, i don't hate him. I think he's a useful squad player but severely lacks in many crucial aspects of the game. He's been shown by an 18 year old how to play the role the past few games. Whereas Kovacic has been a stand out player for us this year, which shows how we started losing once Lamps dropped Kovacic for Kante's return. 

2 hours ago, coco said:

Why not ?

You get two MOTM awards back to back, you don't get dropped.

In terms of quality and performance he definitely deserves to be starting, but to all of a sudden have him playing every single game he's going to end up like Dan James at utd and get fatigued to hell.

He's not used to playing at the highest level. The intensity and all that, so its better to just ease him into it. I mean no doubt, playing 2 games isn't gonna do any harm, so its good to carry on playing him and get him as much experience as possible, but I don't think its wise to just suddenly having him play every single game for the rest of the season. I mean Mount and Tammy were heavily relied upon at the beginning, and no doubt they started well but they have fell off recently and I don't want to see the same happen to Gilmour.

He should get treated how Reece was treated, by slowly giving him more and more game time.

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

I brought up the Modric comparison to show how stupid your comments about Kovacic's end product is. 

I'm English for future reference by the way.

As for Jorginho, i don't hate him. I think he's a useful squad player but severely lacks in many crucial aspects of the game. He's been shown by an 18 year old how to play the role the past few games. Whereas Kovacic has been a stand out player for us this year, which shows how we started losing once Lamps dropped Kovacic for Kante's return. 

Is it enough if I say that I don't hate Kovacic but that I see him just like an average player based on any measurable thing ever? 

We just played the best game of the season without Jorginho and Kovacic and you low key said..."just wait for Barkley to go to his usual self" - really putting down our own player all because of the fact that I mentioned Kovacic. You seem so insecure.

 

Just now, Gol15 said:

Is it enough if I say that I don't hate Kovacic but that I see him just like an average player based on any measurable thing ever? 

We just played the best game of the season without Jorginho and Kovacic and you low key said..."just wait for Barkley to go to his usual self" - really putting down our own player all because of the fact that I mentioned Kovacic. You seem so insecure.

 

Or because Barkley is known to be highly inconsistent, even during his Everton days and Kovacic has been one of our best players this season. Only you, and just you on this forum are calling him an average player. Even on twitter where it's renowned for scapegoating and abusing players Kovacic is highly rated and I've not seen anyone call him average or saying he needs to be sold anytime soon. 

Barkley was fantastic last game, if he keeps it up of course I would want him to be a starter, but sadly inconsistency has always been an issue with him. But that doesn't mean he should be sold, he could be a good squad player. You just have an irrational hatred towards Kovacic and want him sold because of personal reasons, there is no way to describe him as an average player, the facts completely disagree with you, he's been one of our best players this season. 

20 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Whereas Kovacic has been a stand out player for us this year, which shows how we started losing once Lamps dropped Kovacic for Kante's return. 

This same old false narrative, everyone is sh*t part from Kovacic, sell Kante and Jorginho. So let me guess, had I said this:"Sell only Jorginho". You would have not even replied to me, am I right? You know I'm right.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Sell someone that has no end product = Kovacic. Or Jorginho. But not Barkley. It's just being objective, I know I'm rare.

Said this for a while now, give it ten years keepers will start being judged by assits.

That is a ridiclous statement, by that logic Makelele, Xavi and Iniesta were sh*t aswell.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

Said this for a while now, give it ten years keepers will start being judged by assits.

That is a ridiclous statement, by that logic Makelele, Xavi and Iniesta were sh*t aswell.

Well it may be ridiculous but it has been the main argument against Kante,Jorginho,Barkley so I find it odd that it's only now seen as a problem.

Next season if nobody is sold we will have Kante,Jorginho,Mount,Kovacic,Barkley,Gilmour,RLC in the midfield. How would you decide this without not loaning out someone?

2 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Well it may be ridiculous but it has been the main argument against Kante,Jorginho,Barkley so I find it odd that it's only now seen as a problem.

Next season if nobody is sold we will have Kante,Jorginho,Mount,Kovacic,Barkley,Gilmour,RLC in the midfield. How would you decide this without not loaning out someone?

If we're going down the end product route Steven Gerrard came within about 10 of Iniesta's career total at Barca within two season's but despite that only a complete lunatic would chose the former if they had a choice of both. No I'm not saying Kova is as good as what Iniesta was, but he's similarly not in the side for "end product".

1 minute ago, Argo said:

If we're going down the end product route Steven Gerrard came within about 10 of Iniesta's career total at Barca within two season's but despite that only a complete lunatic would chose the former if they had a choice of both. No I'm not saying Kova is as good as what Iniesta was, but he's similarly not in the side for "end product".

Other examples may not apply to our own example. How would you assess the fact that we have 1 player too many in the central midfield?

I don't believe that loaning out Gilmour would be acceptable, he has shown that he is good for the first team now, so part from that option, how do you decide who can offer the least to Lampard?

@Gol15

So what do you see that Frank doesn't and that makes Kova average? Since only two weeks ago when the game picked up speed and our players reached their limits Lamps said Kova was our only player on the pitch that has the character and skill to play in any team.

It's an honest question.

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Well it may be ridiculous but it has been the main argument against Kante,Jorginho,Barkley so I find it odd that it's only now seen as a problem.

Next season if nobody is sold we will have Kante,Jorginho,Mount,Kovacic,Barkley,Gilmour,RLC in the midfield. How would you decide this without not loaning out someone?

From a club perspective selling Kante and Jorginho seems the obvious thing to do, imho. Sign Marquinhos (to replace Christensen / cover for Gilmour) and Lewis Cook (to replace Kante) and we'll win the league. 😆

7 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Other examples may not apply to our own example. How would you assess the fact that we have 1 player too many in the central midfield?

I imagine one will leave but if that one is Kovacic I'll eat my hat.

@Vagabond Barkley has basically the same stats as Kovacic, but he looks more dangerous with the ball in the final third, and that's with less than half of the minutes played. Glimour with 2 games looks just as good as Jorginho but he's a whole decade younger. I simply said, sell both. A few got mad only because Kovacic is one of them, he's the untouchable, I can't imagine how they would talk about him had he scored like Barkley did against Liverpool, but since it's Barkley he "will come back to his usual self" 

3 minutes ago, the special one said:

From a club perspective selling Kante and Jorginho seems the obvious thing to do, imho. Sign Marquinhos (to replace Christensen / cover for Gilmour) and Lewis Cook (to replace Kante) and we'll win the league. 😆

Lewis Cook?  Again?  Really?  You do keep on with that nonsense.  Wasn't it you punting Callum Wilson all last season as well?  Do you own some sort of South Coast piss-poor players agency?  Are you on commission, or are you their mum?

15 minutes ago, the special one said:

From a club perspective selling Kante and Jorginho seems the obvious thing to do, imho. Sign Marquinhos (to replace Christensen / cover for Gilmour) and Lewis Cook (to replace Kante) and we'll win the league. 😆

If Kante decides to leave we won't even need to replace him. Kova and Barkley have both done well in his position and Gallagher is waiting in the wings.

CM is the last place we should be buying right now with everything else that needs doing.

4 minutes ago, Argo said:

If Kante decides to leave we won't even need to replace him. Kova and Barkley have both done well in his position and Gallagher is waiting in the wings.

CM is the last place we should be buying right now with everything else that needs doing.

With the money from Kante and Jorginho sales we would have enough to buy LB+CB+ST or maybe even all that + Sancho since we haven't been spending much recently.

Those 2 players have the highest values, £90m and £59m but we might be just fine without them. We sold Hazard but we're still in the top 4 and players like Tammy,Gilmour,James,Mount,CHO,Pulisic will only get better.

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

With the money from Kante and Jorginho sales we would have enough to buy LB+CB+ST or maybe even all that + Sancho since we haven't been spending much recently.

And then you turned your playstation off 

I disagree with the notion of selling Kante & Jorginho due to the emergence of Billy and Barkley finding his form again. Billy is only 18 and I dont think we should be expecting him to play week in week out in such a physical league, it could have a hugely detrimental impact on his development as a player. He should be an integral member of the squad but certainly not expected to start more than 20 games next season, in reference to Barkley I would consider him a valuable member of the squad after a he strings a few consistent performances together. He cant be a 8/9 out of 10 for a couple of games and revert to being a liability for a few, I am not expecting another performance similar to the one he had against Everton but a few more solid games would do him a world of good, he needs to be consistent.

We have incredible midfield options who offer us tactical variety dependent upon our opponents, for example Kante offers us solidity against better opposition, Jorginho offers us leadership, experience and is the perfect mentor for Billy and Kova is a combination of both players. If you add to that the youth of Mount, Billy alongside the inconsistent Barkley we've got arguably the best midfield options in the league and that is what you need to challenge at all fronts at the top level & I would certainly be against selling any of the options. 

Hello from France! 

If Gilmour will perform for the 3rd time in a row against Villa, maybe the ban of 3 games will cost Jorginho's place in the starting XI. If it happens, there will be no reason for our board to not sell him this summer. He's still in his prime and Sarri still loves his son.. 

Like French people says "Les absents ont toujours torts" 

(Sorry for my average English). 🤭

 

Edited March 9, 20206 yr by Baba

6 minutes ago, Baba said:

Hello from France! 

If Gilmour will perform for the 3rd time in a row against Villa, maybe the ban of 3 games will cost Jorginho's place in the starting XI. If it happens, there will be no reason for our board to not sell him this summer. He's still in his prime and Sarri still loves in his son.. 

Like French people says "Les absents ont toujours torts" 

(Sorry for my average English). 🤭

 

Not sure Sarri will take him to Juve yet agree he needs to move on should Gilmour continue to prove to be better in his absence.

39 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

@Vagabond Barkley has basically the same stats as Kovacic, but he looks more dangerous with the ball in the final third, and that's with less than half of the minutes played. Glimour with 2 games looks just as good as Jorginho but he's a whole decade younger. I simply said, sell both. A few got mad only because Kovacic is one of them, he's the untouchable, I can't imagine how they would talk about him had he scored like Barkley did against Liverpool, but since it's Barkley he "will come back to his usual self" 

You didn't answer my question. What do you see that makes Kova average that Lamps doesn't? Do you think Frank -or coaches in general- should just look more at player stats instead of what's actually happening on the pitch? I'd also like to know how Ross has the same stats as Mateo...

About Barkley... I always defend him when fans try to make him a scapegoat, but you can't deny that Ross is not a very consistent player. That's what "he will come back to his usual self" means. Kovacic on the other hand is probably our most consistent performer this season.

14 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

Kovacic on the other hand is probably our most consistent performer this season.

He's consistently looked good in a team that, at times, hasn't looked good.

But it's mad how since we brought in Gilmour and Barkley, all of a sudden we look a lot better team with a creative midfield.

The Pedro goal against Everton, rewind back in the move, it started when Gilmour picked up the ball deep in our half, he had an easy pass to make back/sideways, but instead he turned and went forward, two passes later the balls in the net. 

1 hour ago, coco said:

The Pedro goal against Everton, rewind back in the move, it started when Gilmour picked up the ball deep in our half, he had an easy pass to make back/sideways, but instead he turned and went forward, two passes later the balls in the net. 

It was just brilliant football, all started by young Billy. He's afforded too much time and space, but what I love is that he takes advantage of that to get the ball forward quickly. Was also a great ball from Barkley. 

Kovacic and Jorginho are also capable of starting similar moves, but we may become a little overloaded in the CM position once everyone is back to fitness... 7 midfielders for 3 positions.

27 minutes ago, coco said:

He's consistently looked good in a team that, at times, hasn't looked good.

But it's mad how since we brought in Gilmour and Barkley, all of a sudden we look a lot better team with a creative midfield.

The Pedro goal against Everton, rewind back in the move, it started when Gilmour picked up the ball deep in our half, he had an easy pass to make back/sideways, but instead he turned and went forward, two passes later the balls in the net. 

The Pedro goal is the perfect example since it was his first goal this season out of 13 games or smth. We are usually very wasteful in front of goal and a bit shaky at the back. I don't see how that has anything to do with Kova, Jorgi or Kanté though.

1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

You didn't answer my question. What do you see that makes Kova average that Lamps doesn't? Do you think Frank -or coaches in general- should just look more at player stats instead of what's actually happening on the pitch? I'd also like to know how Ross has the same stats as Mateo...

 

Lampard has said good (or even better) things about Jorginho and yet it's a bit obvious that you never ever asked this same question to anyone here that has been very much against our vice-captain and it's fair to say that you had more than enough opportunities for that over the span of almost two seasons. You may want to sound like you're impartial here but I only see you coming out when it's about Kovacic, in fact you and others make it look like it's ALL about him, I don't need to point out why I believe that Jorginho should or could be sold, for example but I must suffer these silly one-sided questions because I made a silly mistake to write down the name of Kovacic...OK so lets do it:

Kovacic has 1 goal and 3 assists in 25 PL games (1684min played), Barkley has 0 goals and 3 assists in 13 PL games (675min played).
That's basically the same stats but if you want to look at overall;
Kovacic has played 37 games overall (25PL,7CL,3FAcup,1UefaScup,1EFLcup) and has 2 goals and 3 assists in 2598min played
Barkley has played 20 games total (13PL,3FAcup,2CL,1UefaScup,1EFLcup) and has 3 goals and 4 assists while playing 1125min in total
So you will probably say that Kovacic has scored more goals in the league but Barkley while having less than 50% of the minutes that Kovacic had managed to shoot on taget more than double the amount of what Kovacic has done so it's safe to say his goal is just about a matter of when and not if, he's a far bigger goal threat than Kovacic.

Kovacic has a < 50% win rate record in the league, Barkley's win rate in the league is > 50%.

Now I guess you will say that stats don't matter because your feelings about Kovacic is all that matters, fair enough I guess.

1 hour ago, Vagabond said:

About Barkley... I always defend him when fans try to make him a scapegoat, but you can't deny that Ross is not a very consistent player. That's what "he will come back to his usual self" means. Kovacic on the other hand is probably our most consistent performer this season.

I feel that if I had written that Kovacic will be back to his former self after he had assisted twice or scored an amazing solo goal that I would have been burned alive (lucky for me I'm only harmlessly talking about potential player-sales and unlucky for you since it looks like some have nothing to say here when it's not about Kovacic) but since it's Barkley it's fine and it's a bit odd that you're actually thinking that you are defending Barkley here by agreeing that he is just after all inconsistent and is probably going to come back to his usual self...Did you really defend him? Or is your defending him at the same level of how you defended Kante or Jorginho or anyone else that isn't called Kovacic? Don't answer that, I'm fine.