I think he has worked his way into our first 11 and unless his performances drop or Kai does outstandingly well in his limited appearances Kova should be the preferred Right Sided Central Midfielder. The way that we play we are suspect on the counter attack and having someone like Kova who is a superior defensive Midfielder to Kai should help in providing some defensive cover on the right side especially with Ziyech and James having the tendency to push high.

 

11 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

I think he has worked his way into our first 11 and unless his performances drop or Kai does outstandingly well in his limited appearances Kova should be the preferred Right Sided Central Midfielder. The way that we play we are suspect on the counter attack and having someone like Kova who is a superior defensive Midfielder to Kai should help in providing some defensive cover on the right side especially with Ziyech and James having the tendency to push high.

As soon as Havertz is match fit again he'll be back in the starting XI as part of a three man midfield.

Kante as the defensive mid, Mount left side so he can cut in on his right foot, Havertz on the left so he can cut in on his left. 

I like Kovacic but he doesn't offer enough of a threat in the final third to be selected ahead of Mount and Havertz. 

It's a long season though, with a congested fixture list and I would expect Kovacic to get plenty of playing time coming on as sub and playing in the 8 positions when Havertz and Mount are rested/injured/suspended. 

7 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

As soon as Havertz is match fit again he'll be back in the starting XI as part of a three man midfield.

Kante as the defensive mid, Mount left side so he can cut in on his right foot, Havertz on the left so he can cut in on his left. 

I like Kovacic but he doesn't offer enough of a threat in the final third to be selected ahead of Mount and Havertz. 

It's a long season though, with a congested fixture list and I would expect Kovacic to get plenty of playing time coming on as sub and playing in the 8 positions when Havertz and Mount are rested/injured/suspended. 

Exactly. People forget it's a long season. It's not going to be all high pressing and space in the midfield to do as we please as it has been recently. 

In the same way as Giroud needs to play a role in the bigger tighter games to come so will Kovacic when it is important to have someone who can dribble past someone to make space on midfield.

I've really rated Kovacic's performances in the last few games but yesterday he seemed a little tired... Late tackles resulting in fouls, a couple stray passes and also lost possession once or twice in dangerous positions. 

Maybe the condensed run of fixtures is catching up to him and he could do with a rest. We're lucky to have so many midfield options to choose from with fixtures coming thick and fast.

My point was more towards our strongest starting 11 and I personally would have Kova over Kai against the better opposition, lack of creativity from our midfield last season was a serious issue but with a front 3 with Werner, Abraham & Ziyech alongside our full backs I don't think creativity is that much of an issue this season.

However against majority of the teams in the league Kante provides sufficient cover on the counter and we can afford to play Kai over Kova. But like you've stated we have ample game time to distribute amongst our midfielders.

4 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

As soon as Havertz is match fit again he'll be back in the starting XI as part of a three man midfield.

Kante as the defensive mid, Mount left side so he can cut in on his right foot, Havertz on the left so he can cut in on his left. 

I like Kovacic but he doesn't offer enough of a threat in the final third to be selected ahead of Mount and Havertz. 

It's a long season though, with a congested fixture list and I would expect Kovacic to get plenty of playing time coming on as sub and playing in the 8 positions when Havertz and Mount are rested/injured/suspended. 

May be, but you can expect Kovacic to hand in a transfer request if he misses out on important games same as he did with Real Madrid. He's spent enough time on the bench for two careers already.

3 hours ago, Vagabond said:

May be, but you can expect Kovacic to hand in a transfer request if he misses out on important games same as he did with Real Madrid. He's spent enough time on the bench for two careers already.

There will probably be plenty of rotation that will depend on the type of game, also injuries/yellows/fatigue, but on current form I think he should get a decent amount of game time, including some big ones - should be enough to keep him happy. 

Kovacic should start against Spurs if you ask me. Kai is an insane player but he's still just coming back from having the covid virus. With Kovacic in the starting lineup we can win that game and it's our biggest game so far all things considered. It was acceptable to lose to Liverpool and to draw Man Utd but a win against Spurs would mean a whole lot.

I thought he had a great game in the 2nd half. First half was like him being far too safe. 

He had a good game, good pressing, good interceptions and kept the ball in some tight moments.

I just wish that he learns how to get rid of the ball before he gets fouled. He made a good run but he simply can't make a pass and then the only thing he gets it's a yellow card for Reguilon which whole Spurs is happy to give in exchange for a dangerous counter attack. They get all 10 players behind and all we got was possession in the center of the pitch, so just pass the ball so that the ref can give us advantage of play and you're a hero, it's that simple.

 

I still can't quite work out how he outruns nearly every midfielder who tries to catch him, it doesn't seem like he's one of the fastest in our squad but whenever I see him look like he's about to be caught or muscled off the ball it's like he finds a new gear and leaves his man for dust.

sorry, I'm still not getting the Kovacic love-in. Not saying he was terrible, he worked hard etc but when he's in midfield along with Kante, that's two players in there who aren't going to create anything. Kante isn't expected to of course in his role, but Kovacic has licence to get further forward and he does what exactly? Once Havertz is match fit, he comes in for me.

44 minutes ago, The Brit said:

sorry, I'm still not getting the Kovacic love-in. Not saying he was terrible, he worked hard etc but when he's in midfield along with Kante, that's two players in there who aren't going to create anything. Kante isn't expected to of course in his role, but Kovacic has licence to get further forward and he does what exactly? Once Havertz is match fit, he comes in for me.

I agree, he's doing well without doing anything particulary impressive.

In games where we other teams park the bus, Kovacic can be a bit redundant, and that's where you want someone like Havertz or even Ziyech in that position who is both an energetic defender and someone who will make it count if he wins the ball in midfield. In saying that, I don't think Havertz automatically earns the right to start over Kovacic when fit.

He does have excellent understanding with Mount and Kante though, and that's what i'm wary of losing, especially as he routinely slots back into the 'hole' in midfield, which seems to have given Mount and Kante a world of confidence in chasing down opponents in midfield.

 

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by SydneyChelsea

Didn’t create chances but played some good balls that on another day and against other opposition might have led to something. A bit harsh to berate him for not creating anything in a tight 0-0er where those whose primary function is to create didn’t either. Besides I think we’ll see more assists and goals from Kovacic this season. last 4/5 games would suggest so.

5 hours ago, SydneyChelsea said:

I agree, he's doing well without doing anything particulary impressive.

In games where we other teams park the bus, Kovacic can be a bit redundant, and that's where you want someone like Havertz or even Ziyech in that position who is both an energetic defender and someone who will make it count if he wins the ball in midfield. In saying that, I don't think Havertz automatically earns the right to start over Kovacic when fit.

He does have excellent understanding with Mount and Kante though, and that's what i'm wary of losing, especially as he routinely slots back into the 'hole' in midfield, which seems to have given Mount and Kante a world of confidence in chasing down opponents in midfield.

 

The creativity comes from the front 3, Mount and the two fullbacks. We seen the problems Utd have with trying Bruno and Pogba in the same team. Kovacic showed yesterday why in the big games he must start. He gives us a nice balance in midfield, and he does contribute to attack, he nearly started a great counter attack last night until he got chopped down. Its just Kova brings great defensive awareness to us too.

Also to add, in the big tight games i think you go with safety caution approach first, i think its just human nature.

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by jack_super_class

6 hours ago, The Brit said:

sorry, I'm still not getting the Kovacic love-in. Not saying he was terrible, he worked hard etc but when he's in midfield along with Kante, that's two players in there who aren't going to create anything. Kante isn't expected to of course in his role, but Kovacic has licence to get further forward and he does what exactly? Once Havertz is match fit, he comes in for me.

Kova doesn't need to create much. He's the player to complement both defensive and attacking phases. His job in this team is to bring the ball to Mount/Ziyech/Pulisic and to relieve pressure from Kante and the defenders. I think some people just doesn't see how hard the job is when the midfield is being squeezed like against the Spuds. 

He doesn't need to be adventurous or be Roy of the Rovers. 

My gripe is he doesn't shoot more but that's it. 

Lampard described him as "brilliant" and "outstanding" post-match yesterday. Which i would agree with.
Thought he was our best player and in many ways he reminds me of Essien. He's got that physicality and those driving runs where the opposition just bounce off him. I think Kovacic is part of our best midfield going forward as well.

56 minutes ago, Deino said:

Kova doesn't need to create much. He's the player to complement both defensive and attacking phases. His job in this team is to bring the ball to Mount/Ziyech/Pulisic and to relieve pressure from Kante and the defenders. I think some people just doesn't see how hard the job is when the midfield is being squeezed like against the Spuds. 

He doesn't need to be adventurous or be Roy of the Rovers. 

My gripe is he doesn't shoot more but that's it. 

Kova`s role in this set up is to get the ball to players like those you mentioned in space while also covering the space they leave should we lose the ball and I thought he did that really well yesterday. He also seems to have good positional awareness alongside Kante and is always available for a pass either from the defence or if the attack are needing to return a ball. I cant remember who it was but someone used to say Ballack was a wall pass, basically always there to give it to him to instantly send it on and Kovacic does this, just not enough in my opinion, he does overplay it a bit at times.

With Ziyech on a yellow and instructed to play more in the half spaces Kovacic did all his dirty work for him helping out Reece on the right in the 2nd half. There is no way you could make that kind of tactical switch if you have Kai playing there instead of Kova, it's a no brainer that you play Kova against the stronger opposition. 

Very good game yet again yesterday. Should be undroppable based on merit, especially against the stronger sides. Best technique in the squad besides Pulisic.

It will be interesting how Frank will rotate, with these performances I don't think Mason or Mateo deserve to be benched. I don't care about Havertz' pricetag.

People value different things in footballers. For me in the first half Kova was useless. He gave nothing to our game. We had 3 midfielders where Mount was the only one who tried to make attacking moves. Kante is useless with the ball. For me Havertz would have been better in his place. 

I am talking about solely this Tottenham game. We knew they would sit deep all game. What does Kova bring? Nothing really. Our problem before the game and during it was the quest to break their stubborn defence and to take care they don't break us on counter. We managed to keep them at bay but didn't create that much. 

Kova was very energetic in the second half and made some great recoveries that apparently merited him the motm. If anyone scores in the game he takes the motm. Mount was pretty close with his shot. 

Again no disrespect to Kovacic but if Havertz didn't have the covid19 he would have started this one 100%.

20 minutes ago, evissy said:

People value different things in footballers. For me in the first half Kova was useless. He gave nothing to our game. We had 3 midfielders where Mount was the only one who tried to make attacking moves. Kante is useless with the ball. For me Havertz would have been better in his place. 

I am talking about solely this Tottenham game. We knew they would sit deep all game. What does Kova bring? Nothing really. Our problem before the game and during it was the quest to break their stubborn defence and to take care they don't break us on counter. We managed to keep them at bay but didn't create that much. 

Kova was very energetic in the second half and made some great recoveries that apparently merited him the motm. If anyone scores in the game he takes the motm. Mount was pretty close with his shot. 

Again no disrespect to Kovacic but if Havertz didn't have the covid19 he would have started this one 100%.

 

"First half Kova was usless"

"What does Kova bring? Nothing really"

"Havertz would have started this one 100%"

No disrespect though, right? 😅

PS: What exactly did Havertz do after coming on?

36 minutes ago, evissy said:

People value different things in footballers. For me in the first half Kova was useless. He gave nothing to our game. We had 3 midfielders where Mount was the only one who tried to make attacking moves. Kante is useless with the ball. For me Havertz would have been better in his place. 

I am talking about solely this Tottenham game. We knew they would sit deep all game. What does Kova bring? Nothing really. Our problem before the game and during it was the quest to break their stubborn defence and to take care they don't break us on counter. We managed to keep them at bay but didn't create that much. 

Kova was very energetic in the second half and made some great recoveries that apparently merited him the motm. If anyone scores in the game he takes the motm. Mount was pretty close with his shot. 

Again no disrespect to Kovacic but if Havertz didn't have the covid19 he would have started this one 100%.

Kovacic brings great press resistance and especially against sides as strong on the counter as Tottenham it's vital Not to lose the ball in stupid areas. He also put a great shift in defensively and is a very mobile player.

Also he's not as useless at attacking as you make him out to be. He nearly started a dangerous counter attack yesterday but was brought down, und just two games ago against Newcastle, who were also defending deep, he played a good long through ball to Mount for his chance.

Edited November 30, 20205 yr by True Blue23

8 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

 

"First half Kova was usless"

"What does Kova bring? Nothing really"

"Havertz would have started this one 100%"

No disrespect though, right? 😅

PS: What exactly did Havertz do after coming on?

I still don't know what Kovacic is? Maybe I look at the wrong things. Kante makes recoveries and Mount makes attacking moves. Kovacic made recoveries in the second half and he was once of the brightest players on the pitch. 

And on top of that I like him. He look the business but he is a bit frustrating closer to the box and he makes stupid runs sometimes in wrong places. Maybe I have too high hopes of him. Probably. 

Havertz has a track record of making goals, Kovacic doesn't have that. Against Tottenham I felt we needed that player with a knack of entering the box and finishing the move. 

59 minutes ago, evissy said:

People value different things in footballers. For me in the first half Kova was useless. He gave nothing to our game. We had 3 midfielders where Mount was the only one who tried to make attacking moves. Kante is useless with the ball. For me Havertz would have been better in his place. 

I am talking about solely this Tottenham game. We knew they would sit deep all game. What does Kova bring? Nothing really. Our problem before the game and during it was the quest to break their stubborn defence and to take care they don't break us on counter. We managed to keep them at bay but didn't create that much. 

Kova was very energetic in the second half and made some great recoveries that apparently merited him the motm. If anyone scores in the game he takes the motm. Mount was pretty close with his shot. 

Again no disrespect to Kovacic but if Havertz didn't have the covid19 he would have started this one 100%.

Couldnt disagree more with this if i tried. Havertz would of started if he didnt have covid, that bit is right, but im not sure if it would of been on merit.