And as far as Sarri the coach is concerned, I don't think he has improved one single player in the squad.  In fact, I think more players have regressed under him than have improved.  Luiz, Alonso, Christensen (earlier in the season), Morata.  Even Willian who clearly was unhappy under Conte has not come back.  Kovacic and Barkley have been less than expected this season.  The Hyphens (CHO & RLC) deserve more play time, yet Sarri continues to stick with the established starters.  How is that supposed to motivate the established to players to maintain a high level, or motivate the non starters to perform well to try to take someone's starting spot?  Sarri said he was concerned only to work with the players he had, but what work is he doing?

I was all for Sarri bringing that Napoli style to The Bridge, and we all keep saying that he needs the right players to implement his ideas.  So if he has the wrong players for his system, why does he keep trying to force the system onto players who can't play it?

Oh come off it. Go rewatch this came and think again:
 

Do you genuinely think we played better or it just because we outscored a different Everton, with a different team that you think we played better?

I stand by what I said. We were as good as we could have been in the first half against Everton and I found it hugely enjoyable.

Double post

.

Edited March 19, 20197 yr by venom2011
repost

4 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

Do you genuinely think we played better or it just because we outscored a different Everton, with a different team that you think we played better?

Many pundits at the time said that they thought that was the best premier league performance of all time. 

I doubt very much if he is thinking "I can't wait to see how CHO and Ampadu will develop over the next few years", He knows he probably won't be here to see how it turns out.

He's clearly looking short term himself by picking experience over youth, or arguably in some cases over youth and ability, so why should we be looking long term with him?

I fear our best youth products will be gone if he stays in charge because he shows little signs of trusting them on a regular basis. 

I think we need a coach who has an interest in our youth and making them better players - Sarri is not the man for that job.

This could actually be a chance to make steps towards turning the academy from a money making system into a possible production line into the first team.

Sarri is not the man to lead us into that era so we might as well cut our losses and get rid now, before we run the risk of losing both Hazard & CHO at the end of the season.

 

Edited March 19, 20197 yr by 2211

2 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Magician? No. 

Hugely successful coach who's won things everywhere he's gone? Yup. 

I mean the creaky defence and unbalanced midfield has a lot to do with Sarri.

He's the one that's reverted to a back four and is playing Alonso and Luiz despite evidence that their better suited to back 3. 

He's the one that's bought in Jorginho and Kovacic and moved Kante to a new position as part of a midfield 3. 

It's pure speculation second guessing what Pep would or wouldn't do with this current squad but there would likely be a lot more flexibility and experimentation to try and get the best out of them. You only have to contrast what Pep does at City and did in his first season there to what Sarri has done to see that. 

I am not debating the difference in their trophy hauls, that should be obvious. Pep is successful everywhere he has been, agreed. And each one of his last 3 clubs had a strong core of players on which to build his philosophy before he arrived and he was given the time to alter the team, he wouldn't have had that here. There is a reason why he said he wouldn't have taken this job.

You think Pep would have stuck with the back 5? Wouldn't have wanted Jorginho? Yes it is all speculative at best (and yet strangely you believe Sarri wanted Kova) but it's ridiculous to think he would have come into his first season here with a midfield of Kante, Kovacic, Barkley, RLC and maybe Jorginho ; with zero regular goal scorers bar Hazard ; and would have walked into the top 4.

I'm not saying that Sarri hasn't made mistakes - he has, he's not very experienced in top flight football. I see the mistakes and I expected them because I understand the what the entire process was about. But I think he has done OK. Not great, not poorly - certainly enough to see out the season and maybe be allowed a window to adjust the team. We have such fundamental issues that need to be sorted at this club and I'm honestly tired of the circus. We need one constant. The player base will change soon, the structure of the club needs to change soon, and at the very least I want a manager to stay around for a period of time that allows the club a platform to move forward systematically.

6 minutes ago, 2211 said:

I doubt very much if he is thinking "I can't wait to see how CHO and Ampadu will develop over the next few years", He knows he probably won't be here to see how it turns out.

He's clearly looking short term himself by picking experience over youth, or in some cases arguably over youth and ability, so why should we be looking long term with him?

I fear our best youth products will be gone if he stays in charge because he shows little signs of trusting them on a regular basis. 

I think we need a coach who has an interest in our youth and making them better players - Sarri is not the man for that job.

This could actually be a chance to make steps towards turning the academy from a money making system into a possible production line into the first team.

Sarri is not the man to lead us into that era so we might as well cut our losses and get rid now, before we run the risk of losing both Hazard & CHO at the end of the season.

 

And since everyone keeps harping on the "he's never won anything....." criticism, he may be trying really, really hard to actually win something...…..

22 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Many pundits at the time said that they thought that was the best premier league performance of all time. 

Wow.

40 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Sarri is not a winner. He may be a nice guy, a great student of the game who wants to implement an aesthetically pleasing playing style, but he has no idea how to deliver results when all's on the line. That's why I don't believe we'll reach the top four or win the EL.There are plenty of examples this season when I thought it was a good time to turn things around, go on a winning streak, stake your claim as a top manager and convince everybody he's the real deal. He failed time and again, and more often than not, against inferior opposition. Being a winner is a rare ability, that's why the likes of Mourinho, Guardiola, Zidane etc. are considered elite. They know how to handle pressure and how to find a way to win.

You don't care about finishing in the top four, but I guarantee you the club does, and for a good reason. I can also guarantee you that Sarri was told when hired that qualifying for the CL place is an absolute must. You don't seriously think they just told him to enjoy himself and who cares where we end up come the end of the season? He wouldn't have taken the job? Yeah right, because there was a long line of top clubs we were fighting off in order to acquire his services. Sarri was lucky to get the Chelsea job, this is the biggest test of his carrer to date, it was us offering him a chance on the biggest stage at one of Europe's elite clubs.

As for the first half against Everton being a joy to watch, it's just another example of how far we've fallen under Sarri. Nowadays looking good while scoring nothing for 45 minutes against the 11th placed side in the league is considered something worth gushing over.

Outperformed City with an inferior squad with his job supposedly on the line. 

It's nice that you can guarantee it but that means nothing. Of course the target is the CL. But he was brought here not because he's a proven winner, but to change the style of football. Which objective is more important to the club right now? Maybe you can guarantee some information regarding that.

No. Because he said this:  https://www.balls.ie/football/pep-guardiola-chelsea-job-406293  The board have a short term mentality. And that has now filtered down to the fan-base. 

I have watched almost every min of football that this club has played for more than a decade. I consider myself a student of the game with greater interest towards the tactical side of things. Scoring goals is a product of both the team style and player quality. We do not have goals in the team, therefore we cannot be expected to consistently score goals. Is that too difficult a concept to grasp? If we can't consistently score goals then I cannot use goals as a benchmark for how well this team has played in match (or a half). The first 45 against Everton was perfect. The movement of the players off the ball, the quality of possession, the hunger to win the ball back. It gave me everything I wanted to see besides a goal. And like I've said, my expectations are tempered in that regard.

 

1 minute ago, venom2011 said:

Wow.

Exactly my sentiments at you thinking that a half hour period where we had 3 half chances and 0 goals on our way to a 2-0 loss is a better performance than smashing someone 5-0, and playing them off the park in the process. Each to their own. 

I seem to remember that we regularly laughed at Arsenal for all their time of possession stats and pretty football without scoring much or winning anything.

Sarri may have been brought in to change the playing philosophy, but he has mostly the same players, and he has the same board with the same transfer philosophy.

2 minutes ago, Boston Blue said:

I seem to remember that we regularly laughed at Arsenal for all their time of possession stats and pretty football without scoring much or winning anything.

Sarri may have been brought in to change the playing philosophy, but he has mostly the same players, and he has the same board with the same transfer philosophy.

Arsenal played good football and scored goals, that's the one thing they did do under Wenger. I laughed at Arsenal because Wenger was holding them back with his arrogance and stubbornness. It took until Cech fell into his lap to buy a decent a keeper and he would never sign a top CB or DM because everyone knew Arsenal needed one and he had to go against everyone's point of view. Also Wenger would never change the way he played and that's why they struggled on those rainy days at Stoke in the winter, same old  Arsenal. Sounds very similar to another manager I know 

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

I have made my mind up, I think he needs to go. It's very rare I ever say that about any coach, but I think all things considered (which I will explain below) he has to go.

For me, the transfer ban and Hazard very likely leaving changes everything. It would mean we would have to trust Sarri to lead us through a transitional period, one where we shouldn't expect much success when it comes to winning trophies or even competing for top 4 next season. For somebody like Sarri, that shouldn't be a problem, he's done that throughout his career as a manager. The problem I have with him is building a team to be ready to compete with the big teams again once we get through this period.

What Sarri has shown this season is that he is stubborn, I worry that that stubborn attitude will slow down our transition rather than improve it. I don't think Sarri will bring through youngsters, or adapt his tactics on a game by game basis to help the team actually gain any kind of momentum. I think he will continue to stick by the same senior players, the players that will most likely need to be replaced by 2020, and I don't think he will give the young players or some of the other squad players a chance to gain enough experience next season to be properly prepared and adjusted for the 2020-21 season. I think with Sarri in charge, we will lose Hudson-Odoi for free, because I have no confidence that Sarri will actually play him ahead of more experienced players like Willian and Pedro often enough or at all in the league and especially in the big games. 

In my opinion, if we stick with Sarri though this period, we will be in a position where we need a massive overhaul in the 2020 summer transfer window. I just don't believe he will be able to create a squad that you have confidence in going forward, and I don't believe we will be able to get him the players he will inevitably need by the time the 2020-21 season arrives. 

We need a coach that will adapt his tactics depending on the situation, we need a coach that will be able to get us looking like a team that is ready to take on the 2020-21 season with confidence and without needing to replace half of the team. I don't see this being possible with Sarri. I actually think with Sarri, we will gain no confidence out of next season and we will end up going backwards.

I'm all for backing the manager, but it's got to be the right manager, and I don't think Sarri is the right man to lead the squad through this period at the club.

I think the club are approaching a crossroads and some pretty f**king crucial decisions need to be made.

I'm in the "Sarri should go" camp but then again he MIGHT just be the coach to take us forward. IF this transfer ban is applied and we have to clear out some deadwood and lose Hazard we will have a much leaner and younger looking squad next season. Whoever the coach is, will need to make it clear to the board that trophies will not be on the agenda but they will implement a football style and look to have a side challenging in a couple of seasons. When you watch the Youth Team play over the past few seasons they blow opponents away and do so by playing great pass & move football. All players look comfortable on the ball and those players are the ones who would be forming a large part of the side going forward - RLC, Christensen, Ampadu, CHO, James, Abraham, Mount, Gilmour. This is what the club should start looking at now - why play players who aren't gonna be here in the future - Luiz, Willan, Pedro, Alonso etc etc? 

Perhaps Sarri IS the coach to do that next season although an alternative would be Lamps & Jody Morris (who worked so well with all those youngsters before) but I prefer the idea of them spending another season at Derby and gaining more experience. Either way, the coach must be backed. Stop playing these older "tried & trusted" players because they have 1 decent game in 5 and start showing a bit of faith in the youngsters. However we proceed, I think the club need to lower expectations for the next season or so (as we all do) and let's try and look at something long-term rather than short-term which has worked well for us over the last decade or so but I think our luck is just about to run out.

 

 

 

3 hours ago, venom2011 said:

 

 

 

.

That first half against Everton was a joy for me to watch. It was better than ANYTHING we have played under Conte. 
 

 

 

Conte is a much better manager, this is a big fat lie and I don't mind calling it out...

That's why Conte is a winner and Sarri is 60 without any silverware.

Conte in his first season won Everton 5:0 and 3:0, Sarri had a 0:0 game and now lost 0:2.

40 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Exactly my sentiments at you thinking that a half hour period where we had 3 half chances and 0 goals on our way to a 2-0 loss is a better performance than smashing someone 5-0, and playing them off the park in the process. Each to their? own. ??????

Congrats. You've broken down the beautiful game into statistically calculated chances... and goals. Agreed, each to their own.

 

28 minutes ago, Nibs said:

I think the club are approaching a crossroads and some pretty f**king crucial decisions need to be made.

I'm in the "Sarri should go" camp but then again he MIGHT just be the coach to take us forward. IF this transfer ban is applied and we have to clear out some deadwood and lose Hazard we will have a much leaner and younger looking squad next season. Whoever the coach is, will need to make it clear to the board that trophies will not be on the agenda but they will implement a football style and look to have a side challenging in a couple of seasons. When you watch the Youth Team play over the past few seasons they blow opponents away and do so by playing great pass & move football. All players look comfortable on the ball and those players are the ones who would be forming a large part of the side going forward - RLC, Christensen, Ampadu, CHO, James, Abraham, Mount, Gilmour. This is what the club should start looking at now - why play players who aren't gonna be here in the future - Luiz, Willan, Pedro, Alonso etc etc? 

Perhaps Sarri IS the coach to do that next season although an alternative would be Lamps & Jody Morris (who worked so well with all those youngsters b?efore) but I prefer the idea of them spending another season at Derby and gaining more experience. Either way, the coach must be backed. Stop playing these older "tried & trusted" players because they have 1 decent game in 5 and start showing a bit of faith in the youngsters. However we proceed, I think the club need to lower expectations for the next season o?r so (as we al?l do) and let's try and look at something long-term rather than short-term which has worked well for us over the last decade or so but I think our luck is just about to run out.??

Can't have it both ways. Fans want the board to sack managers almost as quick as the media do and still demand targets to be met. Managers won't play youth. And so it goes, on and on.

That should be happening right now, not next season. We don't have the squad to challenge, we have hugely talented youngsters.  The perfect scenario for me - Finish the season, let the deadwood go (Zappacosta, one of the LBs, one of Willian and Pedro, Giroud). Hire a competent Director of Football. Club decides on a broader philosophy, if they haven't already. Give Sarri a window (if we get one). Try our best to keep CHO. Bring back Mount, James, Salter/Zouma, Tammy. And lastly, stay the path until there is genuinely a massive problem down the line. It's the only way to ensure that things work synergistically. 

Edited March 19, 20197 yr by venom2011

11 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

Congrats.?

Thanks. 

 

Edited March 19, 20197 yr by drjonesy1994

10 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

Congrats. You've broken down the beautiful game into statistically calculated chances... and goals. Agreed, each to their own.

 

Can't have it both ways. Fans want the board to sack managers almost as quick as the media do and still demand targets to be met. Managers won't play youth. And so it goes, on and on.

That should be happening right now, not next season. We don't have the squad to challenge, we have hugely talented youngsters.  The perfect scenario for me - Finish the season, let the deadwood go (Zappacosta, one of the LBs, one of Willian and Pedro, Giroud). Hire a competent Director of Football. Club decides on a broader philosophy, if they haven't already. Give Sarri a window (if we get one). Try our best to keep CHO. Bring back Mount, James, Salter/Zouma, Tammy. And lastly, stay the path until there is genuinely a massive problem down the line. It's the only way to ensure that things work synergistically. 

No, we can't have it both ways, but we've consistently chosen only one way.  Even when Jose was sacked, and we were in the bottom half with absolutely nothing left to play for, Hiddink could have played youth players with no risk.  This would have allowed the club to see what they had for talent, and therefore, what positions they had covered and which ones needed strengthening.  But even with nothing to play for, Hiddink did not integrate any youth.  

9 hours ago, EdinburghBlue said:

There is no way we can know if what you’ve said is true, it’s a complete hypothetical. Personally think they’d both have done have done better, at least with Conte we wouldn’t be getting sucker punched with one counter and then having to chase the game. 

Depends which Conte we got, had it been a continuation of last season's Conte we would probably be doing even worse than we currently are.

1 hour ago, drjonesy1994 said:

Exactly my sentiments at you thinking that a half hour period where we had 3 half chances and 0 goals on our way to a 2-0 loss is a better performance than smashing someone 5-0, and playing them off the park in the process. Each to their own. 

Maybe he meant last season? 

1 minute ago, Argo said:

Maybe he meant last season? 

No don't think so. someone else posted the clip of the 5-0 win over Everton in response to him saying we never played as good under Conte as we did in the first half on Sunday.  

That Chelsea 5-0 Everton performance was absolutely brilliant. Probably the best football I've seen us play for 90 minutes.

It's a shame that we reached nowhere near that level during Conte's 2nd season.

...................and yet Conte still managed to lead us to a trophy.

#SerialWinner.

 

 

 

31 minutes ago, Boston Blue said:

No, we can't have it both ways, but we've consistently chosen only one way.  Even when Jose was sacked, and we were in the bottom half with absolutely nothing left to play for, Hiddink could have played youth players with no risk.  This would have allowed the club to see what they had for talent, and therefore, what positions they had covered and which ones needed strengthening.  But even with nothing to play for, Hiddink did not integrate any youth.  

How many players developed by our academy over the past two decades, have slipped through the net and gone on to become world beaters playing for other clubs?

This intergrate the youth bleating, and not necessarily by yourself has become a big fat cliche. Even allowing for short term mentality employed by managers desperate to cling onto their jobs, numerous coaches of ours, who see the youth play on a daily basis, must have all reached the same conclusion; they are not good enough to replace/ challenge the largely international talent established in their positions.

There is an ocean of difference between a home grown youth player with potential and one of the best players in the world in your position, which would be the case at Chelsea over the last 15 odd years.

Add to this our extremely fickle fan base- can anyone think of a club with more fickle fans because I can’t, I’m not sure I’d they’d be given patience to develop by the punters in the stands.

 

7 minutes ago, Nibs said:

...................and yet Conte still managed to lead us to a trophy.

#SerialWinner.

 

Proven winner yes, but also had the attitude of a spoilt child.

18 minutes ago, Ewell CFC said:

 

 

How many players developed by our academy over the past two decades, have slipped through the net and gone on to become world beaters playing for other clubs?

This intergrate the youth bleating, and not necessarily by yourself has become a big fat cliche. Even allowing for short term mentality employed by managers desperate to cling onto their jobs, numerous coaches of ours, who see the youth play on a daily basis, must have all reached the same conclusion; they are not good enough to replace/ challenge the largely international talent established in their positions.

There is an ocean of difference between a home grown youth player with potential and one of the best players in the world in your position, which would be the case at Chelsea over the last 15 odd years.

Add to this our extremely fickle fan base- can anyone think of a club with more fickle fans because I can’t, I’m not sure I’d they’d be given patience to develop by the punters in the stands.

 

I get that, and I know supporters of every team always over-rate their own prospects.  And no player that we've let go has set the football word on fire.  But...….Roman spent a ton of money upgrading the Academy.  We have the largest number of players out on loan, conceivably to develop, than anyone.  Our youth teams regularly win trophies, and our Academy players have been instrumental in England Youth Team successes.  We are not competing on the open market for the best players, and with no CL games and managerial instability, we are not a preferred destination for players so our next stars have to come from somewhere.  Youth players that have come through the ranks are more likely to have an emotional attachment and passion for the club, which is something we sorely lack in the first team right now.