Chelsea vs Man Utd (FA) Mon 18th Feb 19:30 GMT

[WhiteWall]

6 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

Fair play, Brutos you have been a supporter of Sarri, but you pointed out his problem, he won't change the system, you've heard him say it time and time again....it's plan A and no Plan B until Plan A is perfected and that my friend is nowhere in the near distant future; he's a stubborn old bastard that won't adapt to this league; what may have worked in Italy clearly is not working here.  He is the only one who believes he is right while the team around him has no faith in his system which can be got and destroyed in every game.  If he stays he will surely have had the worst record in modern CFC history, with fewest goals scored and most conceded if this is allowed to continue.

The point being her is that there is no Plan A. I see no pattern other than possession for possession's sake. So Plan A cannot be perfected until it is started and i personally cannot see any direction

[axman2526]

5 minutes ago, wallosh said:

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Dont think it matters if we lose this one by 8 and to city in the final by 10. Roman is not going to act. He is not as involved and, dare I say, does not care as much anymore. Sadly the rival fans were right in predicting he would become bored with us.
I think sarri stays until we have no chance of CL next year.

Not playing in the champions league for two consecutive season? I hope the board do something fast, with a different manager we can still get top 4 and even try and win the Europa league.

Not sure who we bring in. Maybe Eddie Howe? No probably one more run for Uncle Guus.

 

6 minutes ago, The Brit said:

Just as I suspected...damning

Have city or Bournemouth had easier wins against us in the PL era?

[carrickblue]

1 minute ago, WhiteWall said:

The point being her is that there is no Plan A. I see no pattern other than possession for possession's sake. So Plan A cannot be perfected until it is started and i personally cannot see any direction

i think you are right, Plan A is not clearly discernible other than, pass, pass,pass.    

[wallosh]

Conte who persisted all of last season with the 3 at the back everyone knew how to play against. How is that any better?

Its better because it gave us TROPHIES!

[Sambridge29]

Utter waste of 90 minutes, struggle to find a single positive from the game and suspect that Sarri's time may be up very very soon. It's a shame because by sacking him will simply cover up the mistakes of those who should be held accountable for the laughing stock that we've become.

Can somebody confirm to me who made the decision to sign Morata at £58M, Bakayoko at £40M, Drinkwater at £35M, Batshuayi at £33M, Baba Rahman £14M? There is £180,000,000 in signings over the past 3 seasons on players that are deemed not good enough to play for Chelsea. As we all know, Chelsea don't have football managers, they have a Head Coach, and it is not in their remit to sign players. So who is taking responsibility for that £180M loss? Who are the scouts that looked at them players? Are they still employed? Perhaps when Mourinho, Conte and Sarri all complain saying the club don't back them, they actually mean that transfers are made by unqualified, uneducated and incompetent individuals.

Do you honestly believe Guardiola doesn't dictate who is signed at Man City? Conte asks for a midfielder and the best the club could come up with was Danny Drinkwater and Ross Barkley. Perhaps the pundits should applaud Mourinho and Conte for their achievements, because in reality they won the league with bang average players.

Let's take Conte as an example, he came in in his first year and gave the players a chance to correct their horrendous season before by letting them start 433. As soon as he let them fail with that, he changed to his way. He played a system that caught the whole country by surprise and got the players so fit in training that we would run teams into the ground and overpower them. He protected the weak areas by playing 5 at the back, covered Alonso lack of pace by putting someone behind him, and we gathered momentum which saw us win the league. He knew that the everyone would adapt and set up differently against Chelsea the following season, so changes needed to be made. He knew the players we had were not good enough to kick on another level and therefore requested funds to buy better players. They gave him Morata and Bakayoko. Neither are world class, neither had enough history to suggest they could take us to the next level. Consequently he moans publicly saying we need better players, the weak individual we have turn on him and it becomes a shambles. We then sack him and within six months the two clowns we signed for him have been shipped out to other clubs! Looking like Conte was right.

There is clearly a fundamental issue within the club whereby there are individuals making decisions that they are not qualified to make. They are making mistake after mistake after mistake, and then you hear ludicrous comments like this is all the managers fault. What is Sarri possibly supposed to do with these players that are making constant individual errors. Did anyone see Azpi tonight, or this season in fact? Looks like someones dad playing right back, who has he got to put in to replace him? Who can he sign? Can he trust the club to sign a top draw player or will it be another Kenedy, Wallace, Baba, Luis, Zappacosta? 

I do agree that Sarri needs to adapt, doing the same things over and over again but expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity, but you have brought in an attacking, possession based manager and given him ageing, slow, defensive minded, weak players to do it with. A group that hasn't got a single leader in it. Oh and he's got 40 players on the wage bill that are on loan that will be returning to Chelsea when the loan system changes, which will inevitably hinder his future transfer budget as they are still on the wage bill!

I suspect he will be sacked but unless there are wholesale changes within the club this will continue year on year. You cannot buy success anymore, there are too many teams at the same level financially. You have to build a process, a process that has values and principles which give you an identity. Like we used to have with Mourinho, Cech, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Drogba. We remained successful regardless who was the manager because them boys maintained the "Chelsea way", the values and principles Jose instilled in them. There is none of that at the club now, and before anyone can build something they are discarded.

Those at the top of the club Roman Abramovich and Bruce Buck need to be held accountable. They are in charge of this football club, the results do not solely lay with Mr Sarri.

[Brutos]

Try something different like what? The players aren't good enough. A formation change isn't going to help. We have played under a defensive coach, people said it was boring and we need attacking coach, we get an attacking coach and people are saying it's not good enough.
I am really confused. The top three clubs in the league have showed faith and patience in their managers. Arsenal will most likely show faith in Emery. 

Try something different like changing the system to stabilise the results then build again doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is madness. Play to your players strengths we are not a attacking team or defensive team or even a team in the middle we are just no where looking lost

[Spiller86]

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

And the players are just better. Spot on Spiller

Agreed.

Same tactics, same subs same issues. 

I can honestly see that being the end of him  after tonight. Players had a go but there was just no incisiveness.

[DidierIsImmortal]

Get Frank as the Manager.

Blood Mount, CHO and Ampadu

Bring in JT and Didier as coaches and we will start to feel the same pride again as Man U are feeling now. We need that injection.  

What have we got to lose now? 

[WhiteWall]

3 minutes ago, Spiller86 said:

Agreed.

Same tactics, same subs same issues. 

I can honestly see that being the end of him  after tonight. Players had a go but there was just no incisiveness.

The only thing i would say is that the leadership is so toothless from above that i genuinely don't think anyone would have the gumption to sack him. He would have to resign for there to be any change.

What on earth would we do then, there can't be many managers left in Italy by now!!

[Spiller86]

1 minute ago, WhiteWall said:

The only thing i would say is that the leadership is so toothless from above that i genuinely don't think anyone would have the gumption to sack him. He would have to resign for there to be any change.

What on earth would we do then, there can't be many managers left in Italy by now!!

Or anywhere who would take the job...

[FRANKIE66]

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Zidane has almost a perfect record as a manager, he won't come here unless Roman gives him something like 300m for transfers.

Zidane wouldnt have anyone to blame other than himself if he gets the control ! Get the next one in if he fails! Its worked for 15 years changing manager every couple of seasons. Or would you rather be Arsenal and not win the league for over a decade by sticking with the manager sentimentally. Roman needs to take back control of the boardroom and get back to what obviously works.

[axman2526]

6 minutes ago, DidierIsImmortal said:

Get Frank as the Manager.

Blood Mount, CHO and Ampadu

Bring in JT and Didier as coaches and we will start to feel the same pride again as Man U are feeling now. We need that injection.  

What have we got to lose now? 

That a club legend gets sh*t on if he cannot turn it around.

[The Brit]

25 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Not sure who we bring in. Maybe Eddie Howe? No probably one more run for Uncle Guus.

 

Have city or Bournemouth had easier wins against us in the PL era?

Of course not...some hat-trick in less than a month

[The Brit]

Another damning thing, not Sarri related, is how the current players can't respond once they fall behind...they just give up...we actually played quite well until Herrera scored but after that there was only one winner...

defeats in 2019: arse 2-0, Spurs 1-0, Bournemouth 4-0, City 6-0, Utd 2-0...basically go in front against us, it's all over

[CFCCAN]

8 minutes ago, Sambridge29 said:

Utter waste of 90 minutes, struggle to find a single positive from the game and suspect that Sarri's time may be up very very soon. It's a shame because by sacking him will simply cover up the mistakes of those who should be held accountable for the laughing stock that we've become.

Can somebody confirm to me who made the decision to sign Morata at £58M, Bakayoko at £40M, Drinkwater at £35M, Batshuayi at £33M, Baba Rahman £14M? There is £180,000,000 in signings over the past 3 seasons on players that are deemed not good enough to play for Chelsea. As we all know, Chelsea don't have football managers, they have a Head Coach, and it is not in their remit to sign players. So who is taking responsibility for that £180M loss? Who are the scouts that looked at them players? Are they still employed? Perhaps when Mourinho, Conte and Sarri all complain saying the club don't back them, they actually mean that transfers are made by unqualified, uneducated and incompetent individuals.

Do you honestly believe Guardiola doesn't dictate who is signed at Man City? Conte asks for a midfielder and the best the club could come up with was Danny Drinkwater and Ross Barkley. Perhaps the pundits should applaud Mourinho and Conte for their achievements, because in reality they won the league with bang average players.

Let's take Conte as an example, he came in in his first year and gave the players a chance to correct their horrendous season before by letting them start 433. As soon as he let them fail with that, he changed to his way. He played a system that caught the whole country by surprise and got the players so fit in training that we would run teams into the ground and overpower them. He protected the weak areas by playing 5 at the back, covered Alonso lack of pace by putting someone behind him, and we gathered momentum which saw us win the league. He knew that the everyone would adapt and set up differently against Chelsea the following season, so changes needed to be made. He knew the players we had were not good enough to kick on another level and therefore requested funds to buy better players. They gave him Morata and Bakayoko. Neither are world class, neither had enough history to suggest they could take us to the next level. Consequently he moans publicly saying we need better players, the weak individual we have turn on him and it becomes a shambles. We then sack him and within six months the two clowns we signed for him have been shipped out to other clubs! Looking like Conte was right.

There is clearly a fundamental issue within the club whereby there are individuals making decisions that they are not qualified to make. They are making mistake after mistake after mistake, and then you hear ludicrous comments like this is all the managers fault. What is Sarri possibly supposed to do with these players that are making constant individual errors. Did anyone see Azpi tonight, or this season in fact? Looks like someones dad playing right back, who has he got to put in to replace him? Who can he sign? Can he trust the club to sign a top draw player or will it be another Kenedy, Wallace, Baba, Luis, Zappacosta? 

I do agree that Sarri needs to adapt, doing the same things over and over again but expecting a different outcome is the definition of insanity, but you have brought in an attacking, possession based manager and given him ageing, slow, defensive minded, weak players to do it with. A group that hasn't got a single leader in it. Oh and he's got 40 players on the wage bill that are on loan that will be returning to Chelsea when the loan system changes, which will inevitably hinder his future transfer budget as they are still on the wage bill!

I suspect he will be sacked but unless there are wholesale changes within the club this will continue year on year. You cannot buy success anymore, there are too many teams at the same level financially. You have to build a process, a process that has values and principles which give you an identity. Like we used to have with Mourinho, Cech, Terry, Cole, Lampard, Drogba. We remained successful regardless who was the manager because them boys maintained the "Chelsea way", the values and principles Jose instilled in them. There is none of that at the club now, and before anyone can build something they are discarded.

Those at the top of the club Roman Abramovich and Bruce Buck need to be held accountable. They are in charge of this football club, the results do not solely lay with Mr Sarri.

I agree with a lot of what you have said but the buck ultimately stops with the manager; he's the one responsible for getting the team ready and securing the result.  While it seems that in recent years our managers have had little say in who comes in I don't believe he is not consulted on the type of players he wanted.  He simply won't accept that this league is the toughest to manage in; you have to be adaptable, if not you will get creamed week in, week out as we are seeing.  It's not the players that will get him the sack, it's his unwillingness to learn and see what's happening around him.  I've said it numerous times, without trying to repeat myself; a new system and style of play only works the first time around, managers in this league are astute and quick learners, if you don't change your style of play the second time around, even slightly, you will get punished.  While Mr A and the Board may be slightly culpable for this mess the main reason is Sarri himself.  

[axman2526]

2 minutes ago, The Brit said:

Another damning thing, not Sarri related, is how the current players can't respond once they fall behind...they just give up...we actually played quite well until Herrera scored but after that there was only one winner...

defeats in 2019: arse 2-0, Spurs 1-0, Bournemouth 4-0, City 6-0, Utd 2-0...basically go in front against us, it's all over

We have one leader and he is banished from the team so that dont help.

[Snedger]

1 hour ago, enigma said:

Try something different like what? The players aren't good enough. A formation change isn't going to help. We have played under a defensive coach, people said it was boring and we need attacking coach, we get an attacking coach and people are saying it's not good enough.

I am really confused. The top three clubs in the league have showed faith and patience in their managers. Arsenal will most likely show faith in Emery. 

What kind of attacking is having over 60% possession at home and not having a shot on target in 45 minutes? Their keeper might as well have stayed in the changing rooms. Sarri's football isn't attacking, it's boring.

All this bollocks about sideways vertical passing triangles is just like management speak. He'll be thinking outside the box on the strategic staircase whilst having a thought shower next.

 

Edited February 18, 2019 by Snedger

[Lexar]

Man that was hard viewing, not even the fact we lost, more so because it was everything I expected to see. Predictable lineup with the same potential problems that we have every week and what do ya'know it's the same old crap that unfolds before us. I thought the players put in the effort, the whole motivation thing seems like a smokescreen to distract from the fact that we just aren't setting up in our strongest lineup. Like for like subs and absolutely no imagination or attempt to give United something new to deal with. If I was the opposing manager I could write down the substitutions we will make before the match and get 99% of them right. The players aren't executing whatever this plan A is, but I won't take seriously a manager who can't see that you have to have more then one approach to win a football match. Maybe it's admirable to think that your brand of football is/will be so dominating that it will crush anything that comes into it's path, but realistically this doesn't work for any top team and you have to be more malleable to create your own success. On to the next match..

[Luca Vialli]

16 minutes ago, Snedger said:

What kind of attacking is having over 60% possession at home and not having a shot on target in 45 minutes? Their keeper might as well have stayed in the changing rooms. Sarri's football isn't attacking, it's boring.

The thing is he's not telling them to take no responsibility or don't shoot at goal. His Napoli team were very decisive but for whatever reason we seem to be close to the opposite of that.

He's turned us into a team comfortable in possession but the attacking part just isn't instinctive. There's something very stale or complacent about the players.

Edited February 18, 2019 by Luca Vialli

[Gol15]

1 minute ago, Luca Vialli said:

The thing is he's not telling them to take no responsibility or don't shoot at goal. His Napoli team were very decisive but for whatever reason we seem to be close to the opposite of that.

There's something very stale or complacent about the players.

That same Napoli is still the second best team in Serie A even without Sarri. Ancelotti is there now and he changed the formation to his own 4-4-2 and the result is the same Juventus first Napoli second.

Sarri is right now showing complete lack of knowledge at his job, if the players simply can't play his way of football then he should have changed something 2 months ago! 

[Phillip]

I just saw the highlights on youtube -- My God, if that is not a second yellow on Matic's foul on Kante, then nothing is.

Kevin Friend really bottled it on that non-call.

[Sambridge29]

15 minutes ago, CFCCAN said:

I agree with a lot of what you have said but the buck ultimately stops with the manager; he's the one responsible for getting the team ready and securing the result.  While it seems that in recent years our managers have had little say in who comes in I don't believe he is not consulted on the type of players he wanted.  He simply won't accept that this league is the toughest to manage in; you have to be adaptable, if not you will get creamed week in, week out as we are seeing.  It's not the players that will get him the sack, it's his unwillingness to learn and see what's happening around him.  I've said it numerous times, without trying to repeat myself; a new system and style of play only works the first time around, managers in this league are astute and quick learners, if you don't change your style of play the second time around, even slightly, you will get punished.  While Mr A and the Board may be slightly culpable for this mess the main reason is Sarri himself.  

Essentially he has a method and idea of how the game is to be played, the players he has at his disposal are simply not good enough to carry it out, we can all see that. I can't see Alonso, Luiz. Azpi, Kovacic, Willian or Pedro adapting to his methods. He therefore has two options, either change and find a system that suits your players, which should hopefully get you through to the summer and allow for you to recruit players than can do what you ask of them, or you chuck in the kids who are essentially blank canvases and mould them into your side with their own identity. This current process of playing a style the majority aren't capable has become painful to watch and could cost him his job. So yes, i agree the manor of the defeats are essentially down to Sarri., but if Mourinho, Conte and Sarri have all experienced seasons like this then there must be a serious underlying problem.

[pgblue13]

Did anyone read the report on the interview with  Darren Fletcher for BBC sport ahead of tonight's match?

He basically outlined exactly what would happen and how the manure would play against us. How do you think he foresaw that?

it is  a frightening reality that anyone could have foreseen that.

Ever since that #### Dele Ali marked or showed how to nullify Jorginho "Sarri-Ball" was as dead as a dodo.

Something has to change as any team with an ounce of nous will just put someone near him and then use his lack of pace to pass by him. 

Edited February 18, 2019 by pgblue13

[forbzy]

I think tonight's result would have been easier to take if we had played a few of the youth players that actually got us to this round in the first place  If we had started with the same 11 that played against Sheffield Wednesday I actually think we qould have done better and a lot of the fans would have got behind the younger players.

Hard to see Sarri lasting much longer but the Telegraph has it right. A lot of players cannot be allowed to get away with the unacceptable performances either.

[axman2526]

Always loved the FA cup...ah well...