Might be controversial but a 37 year old Cristiano Ronaldo is twice as good a number 9 as Kai Havertz is at the moment, if we aren't going to sing another forwards I think we should revisit it

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Apparently he is one of "lot" who want out. Not happy playing as a false 9 and does not believe TT knows how to best use him. The World Cup leaving him cause for concern.

And this is according to what? Twitter?

7 minutes ago, Zeta said:

And this is according to what? Twitter?

Lot of rumours out there after TT used the term "lots".

Can't see anyone stumping up the money to sign him from us. 

Whilst I don't think Kai is one of our biggest headaches, the only players I would not consider selling are Silva, James and Mount. 

 

5 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Might be controversial but a 37 year old Cristiano Ronaldo is twice as good a number 9 as Kai Havertz is at the moment, if we aren't going to sing another forwards I think we should revisit it

I'd love to know what Kai Havertz thinks his best position is ... he's looked bang average pretty much everywhere he has played for us under two different managers ... 

It's strange we have so many squad players where there is so much doubt about what is their best position. In most cases the correct answer is at another club :-)  

7 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd love to know what Kai Havertz thinks his best position is ... 

He might say somewhere in Germany.

Don’t think he’s good enough to be honest , gets a very easy time from both the fans and manager compared to the other forward players. 

31 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd love to know what Kai Havertz thinks his best position is ... he's looked bang average pretty much everywhere he has played for us under two different managers ... 

It's strange we have so many squad players where there is so much doubt about what is their best position. In most cases the correct answer is at another club :-)  

I think he's a CAM, but hardly any clubs use CAMs anymore, similar problem to what Ozil had at Arsenal. The times we have played him there in a 4231 he's looked a lot better to be fair to him. Definiely noot good enough to lead the line as a ST though

11 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Can't see anyone stumping up the money to sign him from us. 

Whilst I don't think Kai is one of our biggest headaches, the only players I would not consider selling are Silva, James and Mount. 

 

From the existing true first team squad, I would add Chilwell and Kovacic to the not sell list. 

He is getting zero service at the moment (the same as any striker).  Looks really ineffective in games at the moment.  We need to adjust the formation if we want to unlock some attacking potential.

10 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'd love to know what Kai Havertz thinks his best position is ... he's looked bang average pretty much everywhere he has played for us under two different managers ... 

It's strange we have so many squad players where there is so much doubt about what is their best position. In most cases the correct answer is at another club 🙂

10/9

11 hours ago, Dubair said:

Don’t think he’s good enough to be honest , gets a very easy time from both the fans and manager compared to the other forward players. 

Lukaku,  Timo, Pulsic, Ziyech, Pulisic and it goes on...why do all our attacking players want to leave? They all cant be bad. The answer is TT who doesn't know how to utilise or play to their strengths. 

2 hours ago, Edjmendy said:

Lukaku,  Timo, Pulsic, Ziyech, Pulisic and it goes on...why do all our attacking players want to leave? They all cant be bad. The answer is TT who doesn't know how to utilise or play to their strengths. 

Hmmm maybe , I have seen that they think he is too critical of them and that can be seen on the sideline when they miss a chance. However in his defence many attacking players appeared to flourish under him at Dortmund and PSG, and apart from Pulisic , none of the referenced players did anything of note under Lampard either. 

2 hours ago, Edjmendy said:

Lukaku,  Timo, Pulsic, Ziyech, Pulisic and it goes on...why do all our attacking players want to leave? They all cant be bad. The answer is TT who doesn't know how to utilise or play to their strengths. 

Lukaku - no running, no touch, couldnt pass - and with no space in the EPL and a slow attack, he looked a poor mans Tony Cascarino

Timo - No quality, as much as that hurts me to say. Simply not a natural footballer and has been exposed in a better quality league where teams sit deep

Pulisic - Never been consistent, and has regressed during his time at Chelsea. Possibly due to injuries, possibly due to not being good enough, probably a mix of both.

Ziyech - the ultimate show pony. Amazing player, when given time and space on the ball. Something he is not going to get in the EPL

Tuchel - Unable / unwilling to get the team playing a more progressive, fluid, fast brand of football. Our shape and tactics are well past their sell by date, and look outdated and stagnant.

2 hours ago, Edjmendy said:

Lukaku,  Timo, Pulsic, Ziyech, Pulisic and it goes on...why do all our attacking players want to leave? They all cant be bad. The answer is TT who doesn't know how to utilise or play to their strengths. 

Tragically, they are all actually really bad ...

Look at the performance data and ratings on Whoscored? for last season for example. Most of our forwards are ranked at the bottom of our squad. Out of 26 players, Ziyech is 12th, Havertz 16th, Lukaku 17th, CHO 20th, Pulisic 22nd and Werner 24th. It's abysmal ... it's the exact opposite of what you see at Liverpool and Man City, whose forwards are generally their better ranked players. 

In the same way that you'd refresh a sales team by getting rid of the low performers, with Lukaku already gone, we should basically be looking to offload Werner, Pulisic and CHO next. I'd keep Ziyech and Havertz for now, but both of them need to improve.

 

 

32 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

Tragically, they are all actually really bad ...

Look at the performance data and ratings on Whoscored? for last season for example. Most of our forwards are ranked at the bottom of our squad. Out of 26 players, Ziyech is 12th, Havertz 16th, Lukaku 17th, CHO 20th, Pulisic 22nd and Werner 24th. It's abysmal ... it's the exact opposite of what you see at Liverpool and Man City, whose forwards are generally their better ranked players. 

In the same way that you'd refresh a sales team by getting rid of the low performers, with Lukaku already gone, we should basically be looking to offload Werner, Pulisic and CHO next. I'd keep Ziyech and Havertz for now, but both of them need to improve.

 

 

Yeah so whose good? Didnt we win the CL with these same players bar Lukaku?These players would go to other teams and do amazingly well. Somethings just not right!

3 hours ago, Edjmendy said:

Lukaku,  Timo, Pulsic, Ziyech, Pulisic and it goes on...why do all our attacking players want to leave? They all cant be bad. The answer is TT who doesn't know how to utilise or play to their strengths. 

Pulisic so bad you had to name him twice?

6 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Pulisic so bad you had to name him twice?

At the risk of throwing petrol on your embers ... :-) 

Source: Whoscored

11 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

At the risk of throwing petrol on your embers ... :-) 

Source: Whoscored

This is exactly my point.  There was a myth at some point last season that he was a decent finisher despite averaging 4 goals a season and underscoring his XG every season.

He's genuinely not good at anything.

It's rare to find a Winger at this level that is a poor dribbler,  a poor finisher, a poor passer and has no workrate. Is pathetically weak and has Low intelligence on the pitch. He's not even quick anymore.

Usually there's 1 kind of special quality or trick that got them to this level.

But we all know the 1 special quality that got Pulisic to this club has nothing to do with anything he's ever offered on the pitch.

The flames are burning.

The reason Havertz gets a pass from a lot of us despite being largely disappointing is that he isn't as offensively bad as our other options.   There's actually talent there to work with.

Edited July 25, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

3 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Lukaku - no running, no touch, couldnt pass - and with no space in the EPL and a slow attack, he looked a poor mans Tony Cascarino

Timo - No quality, as much as that hurts me to say. Simply not a natural footballer and has been exposed in a better quality league where teams sit deep

Pulisic - Never been consistent, and has regressed during his time at Chelsea. Possibly due to injuries, possibly due to not being good enough, probably a mix of both.

Ziyech - the ultimate show pony. Amazing player, when given time and space on the ball. Something he is not going to get in the EPL

Tuchel - Unable / unwilling to get the team playing a more progressive, fluid, fast brand of football. Our shape and tactics are well past their sell by date, and look outdated and stagnant.

You've just listed why all our attackers our awful, the fact that Tuchel got 76 goals out of them is fairly impressive if anything. Even our best attacker Mason Mount, is about as good as 2014-15 Oscar at best (even last season most of his goal contributions were agains the bottom 5). 

 

Truth is we still haven't found a replacement for Hazard and Diego Costa. Sterling might be a step in the right direction, but it isn't enough

2 hours ago, HazardousChoice said:

This is exactly my point.  There was a myth at some point last season that he was a decent finisher despite averaging 4 goals a season and underscoring his XG every season.

He's genuinely not good at anything.

It's rare to find a Winger at this level that is a poor dribbler,  a poor finisher, a poor passer and has no workrate. Is pathetically weak and has Low intelligence on the pitch. He's not even quick anymore.

Usually there's 1 kind of special quality or trick that got them to this level.

But we all know the 1 special quality that got Pulisic to this club has nothing to do with anything he's ever offered on the pitch.

The flames are burning.

The reason Havertz gets a pass from a lot of us despite being largely disappointing is that he isn't as offensively bad as our other options.   There's actually talent there to work with.

To be honest I'm not sure even Havertz deserves much of a pass. If we're treating him as a number 9 now it means we've paid £71m for a number 9 that can't even crack 10 goals a season in the prem. I think he has can improve but right now he isn't anywhere near the other top forwards in the league 

Seems like the only way he can score a goal is a header. 

Shocking player in the final third and gives me zero faith he will improve. 

19 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Seems like the only way he can score a goal is a header. 

 

This is absolutely not true at all lol

15 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

This is absolutely not true at all lol

Put it this way, I am more confident in Havertz putting away a header than a one on one vs a keeper. 

 

2 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Put it this way, I am more confident in Havertz putting away a header than a one on one vs a keeper. 

 

He’s scored some good goals with his feet though. The technique for the goal he scored against Newcastle this season was unreal. 

To say the only way he has a chance of scoring is with his head is just not true. 

Yes he does score headers too but what’s wrong with that? It doesn’t make the value of the goal any less.