I am really worried about him going into the season. I know it's pre season etc but apart from that purple patch last season and the CL goal he's been a flop. Some of his touches on Saturday were abysmal he lost the ball almost every time he got given it

Just now, drjonesy1994 said:

He’s scored some good goals with his feet though. The technique for the goal he scored against Newcastle this season was unreal. 

To say the only way he has a chance of scoring is with his head is just not true. 

Yes he does score headers too but what’s wrong with that? It doesn’t make the value of the goal any less. 

What other goals? 

I find it astonishing that we have a attacking player who looks so awkward with the ball to his feet in front of goal, particularly one that is leading our line. 

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

What other goals? 

I find it astonishing that we have a attacking player who looks so awkward with the ball to his feet in front of goal, particularly one that is leading our line. 

City in the champions league final. 
Norwich away 

Are two that spring to mind straight away. There’s probably others if I go looking for them but they’re the 2 that spring to mind straight away. 

When he did lead the line last season we looked a much better team than when Lukaku was playing and everything just felt more fluid and quick. I’d like to give him a full season leading the line and if that doesn’t work out then fine look elsewhere. 

 

Yeah I don't have confidence in Kai to lead the line at all. I will be happy to be proven wrong by him and he will always be the CL winning goal scorer that secured his place in Chelsea folklore.

However I don't think he will get near the player we hoped for here.

19 minutes ago, drjonesy1994 said:

City in the champions league final. 
Norwich away 

Are two that spring to mind straight away. There’s probably others if I go looking for them but they’re the 2 that spring to mind straight away. 

When he did lead the line last season we looked a much better team than when Lukaku was playing and everything just felt more fluid and quick. I’d like to give him a full season leading the line and if that doesn’t work out then fine look elsewhere. 

 

So a goal against the worst team ever since Derby 2008 and CL final, where he almost f**ked it up right into Ederson's hands? Sorry mate that isn't good enough. I for one have been advocating since the beginning that we are a better team with Havertz up top, but his current metrics are not good enough. Not even close. We need to see improvement this season but if preseason is anything to go by we are seeing the same awkward and lethargic play. 

This generational talent talk is a bit of a pisstake. His peak is starting to look like 2017 Dele Alli. 

He didn’t almost “f**k it right into edersons hands” though. Ederson was about a yard outside the box and if the ball didn’t end up in the net chances are he’d have got sent off for handball. I actually think it was good movement, and he done well to go round the keeper and finish. 

It may have been only Norwich but it was still a good goal. Saying it was “only Norwich” is similar to the stick that Mount wrongly gets for his G/A output. 

The only period he played out and out as the main man this season was from the end of Feb to middle of April. During this period he scored 6 in 10 appearances. That’s a small enough sample size for me that if he leads the line more regularly he will do a decent job. 

2 hours ago, drjonesy1994 said:

That’s a small enough sample size for me that if he leads the line more regularly he will do a decent job. 

I don't share your optimism but let's wait and see. 

Zero excuses for him this season for us to not see improvement. 

The issue you have with Kai is really he should be playing off a striker. But then you have to change your attack to 2 up top. Then where does Sterling play? I wonder if him & Broja randomly strike up a lethal partnership.

I’ve not watched any friendlies so I’m not doing a knee jerk reaction but I really don’t see ‘generational talent’ in him. Sure, he has a few great moments but they seem to be pretty rare. And the generational talent talk when we signed him, what does he actually offer?

I feel he is overrated and doesn’t merit the reputation he currently has.

It's an odd thing perhaps, but as much as I am convinced, and have been for a long time, that Timo Werner is a really poor footballer and someone we need to move on ASAP, I am the polar opposite with Havertz. I am completely convinced he is a player we absolutely must not lose.

I accept CL final aside, he hasn't delivered everything we had hoped for, (yet?), but by God he is so naturally gifted. @drjonesy1994 referenced the goal he scored against Newcastle, how can anyone forget that first touch? The only other player we have who comes anywhere near him for technical ability is Mount. @rtwelch also makes the point above, quite rightly IMO, that Havertz isn't a lone centre-forward and to get the best from him he needs a decent strike partner or a decent centre-forward to play behind. For me Havertz is a player worth gambling on by changing our tactics and formation to accommodate his talent.

I await the day we stop using the CL final goal and Newcastle goal to justify him being here. It’s what we did with Ruben for years whilst seeing zero improvement. 
 

Drastic Improvement is needed. Surely we call all agree on that? 

19 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I await the day we stop using the CL final goal and Newcastle goal to justify him being here. It’s what we did with Ruben for years whilst seeing zero improvement. 
 

Drastic Improvement is needed. Surely we call all agree on that? 

It wasn't just his goal by the way, should've had an assist too had Pulisic not fluffed it. We should've won 2-0 that night and it would've been largely down to him.

Of course he needs to improve, as does the general buildup around him. Having said that, think we'd be incredibly stupid to write him off or to even consider the notion of selling him.

 

37 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I await the day we stop using the CL final goal and Newcastle goal to justify him being here. It’s what we did with Ruben for years whilst seeing zero improvement. 
 

Drastic Improvement is needed. Surely we call all agree on that? 

Whenever he's been given a sustained run at false 9 has coincided with our best football. Even when he doesn't give 10/10's himself his movement and tactical awareness allows for a more fluent game.

Take for example Real away, individually I thought he was pretty poor but do we produce a team display like that with a static poacher up top? Not a chance.

99% of a players game is played off the ball.

10 hours ago, just said:

It's an odd thing perhaps, but as much as I am convinced, and have been for a long time, that Timo Werner is a really poor footballer and someone we need to move on ASAP, I am the polar opposite with Havertz. I am completely convinced he is a player we absolutely must not lose.

I accept CL final aside, he hasn't delivered everything we had hoped for, (yet?), but by God he is so naturally gifted. @drjonesy1994 referenced the goal he scored against Newcastle, how can anyone forget that first touch? The only other player we have who comes anywhere near him for technical ability is Mount. @rtwelch also makes the point above, quite rightly IMO, that Havertz isn't a lone centre-forward and to get the best from him he needs a decent strike partner or a decent centre-forward to play behind. For me Havertz is a player worth gambling on by changing our tactics and formation to accommodate his talent.

I don't think Tuchel is willing to do this

10 hours ago, just said:

It's an odd thing perhaps, but as much as I am convinced, and have been for a long time, that Timo Werner is a really poor footballer and someone we need to move on ASAP, I am the polar opposite with Havertz. I am completely convinced he is a player we absolutely must not lose.

I accept CL final aside, he hasn't delivered everything we had hoped for, (yet?), but by God he is so naturally gifted. @drjonesy1994 referenced the goal he scored against Newcastle, how can anyone forget that first touch? The only other player we have who comes anywhere near him for technical ability is Mount. @rtwelch also makes the point above, quite rightly IMO, that Havertz isn't a lone centre-forward and to get the best from him he needs a decent strike partner or a decent centre-forward to play behind. For me Havertz is a player worth gambling on by changing our tactics and formation to accommodate his talent.

Oops double post 

Edited July 26, 20223 yr by Bob stark

10 hours ago, Argo said:

Whenever he's been given a sustained run at false 9 has coincided with our best football. Even when he doesn't give 10/10's himself his movement and tactical awareness allows for a more fluent game.

Take for example Real away, individually I thought he was pretty poor but do we produce a team display like that with a static poacher up top? Not a chance.

99% of a players game is played off the ball.

That has been the case at some point but later on he stopped playing that kind of game and became a more standard striker and that hasn’t been the best for us. Maybe Lukaku influenced that change, not sure to which degree but ever since Kai changed his style the whole attack became worse.

Tuchel should really try to play a 4-2-3-1 with Kai being behind the striker, what made him great was when he had the freedom as the AM in Bundesliga and the false 9 role is the closest to it.

Tuchel must get the best out of him this season, there is no Rudiger to bail out the whole attack and our system must change if we want our attackers to shine.

12 hours ago, just said:

For me Havertz is a player worth gambling on by changing our tactics and formation to accommodate his talent.

I fully agree and I have also said this in the past, he is the player that you build your team around and just watch as he solves games. I will never understand why Tuchel insisted on Lukaku and why Lampard played him all over the pitch to fill holes, specially after it was such an epic signing.

On 26/07/2022 at 18:30, Gol15 said:

That has been the case at some point but later on he stopped playing that kind of game and became a more standard striker and that hasn’t been the best for us. Maybe Lukaku influenced that change, not sure to which degree but ever since Kai changed his style the whole attack became worse.

Tuchel should really try to play a 4-2-3-1 with Kai being behind the striker, what made him great was when he had the freedom as the AM in Bundesliga and the false 9 role is the closest to it.

Tuchel must get the best out of him this season, there is no Rudiger to bail out the whole attack and our system must change if we want our attackers to shine.

Did you watch our first half friendly vs arse? 

If you do, you will understand why we can't play 442 or 4231. That first half was a complete disaster. 

48 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

Did you watch our first half friendly vs arse? 

If you do, you will understand why we can't play 442 or 4231. That first half was a complete disaster. 

Though we did play something like that, a version of 4-2-2-2 and even with many bench players at some point last season, with a great record of losing only once and winning most matches.

6 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Did you watch our first half friendly vs arse? 

If you do, you will understand why we can't play 442 or 4231. That first half was a complete disaster. 

But on the flip side we played a back 4 against Spurs last season with Silva (who apparently can't play it anymore) and Sarr (enough said) in the 4 with Jorginho sitting and no Kante (which is apparently suicide) and comfortably beat them.

8 minutes ago, Argo said:

But on the flip side we played a back 4 against Spurs last season with Silva (who apparently can't play it anymore) and Sarr (enough said) in the 4 with Jorginho sitting and no Kante (which is apparently suicide) and comfortably beat them.

If you watched that game, I don't have to tell you why we didn't really concede in that game 

Edited August 2, 20223 yr by Bob stark

Just don't see it with him. Does not have the attributes to shine in this league in my opinion. Desperately need an upgrade before the window close.

He's not a good dribbler or a good passer and he's generally harmless to our opposition.

I really like Havertz but he was invisible today.

He has to run games, to ask for the ball like Hazard once did. Either that or he'll be a loose cannon sadly.

There are plenty of players I want to see out of this squad before Havertz. That said, he HAS to step it up this season. We all know there is talent there but the games where he is disappointing, bordering on invisible are starting to stack up and the similarities to Ozil at Arsenal and him being labelled a luxury player are in danger of becoming reality.

Just hope TT can get the best out of him.

Edited August 6, 20223 yr by Nibs