12 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Not for me to say either way ,really,  I'm not the one proposing that we remove restrictions and deliberately allow people to go out and catch a lethal virus.   If pushed, my view is not one unnecessary death is acceptable.

You're proposing that, so answer the question.  How many unnecessary deaths are acceptable to you? Is it tens?  Hundreds?  Thousands? 

So the people that will die of cancer due to not having access to treatments, that not unnesesery death?

The people who kill themselves during this period not unnesesery deaths?

An elderly relative of mine has not been getting his blood tests recently, about a decade ago such test identified a problem and almost certainly saved his life, so if he had that issue in 2020 and it wasn't identified on time wouldn't that be an unnecessary death?

The people that don't feel well but don't call an ambulance because they've been as good as contidioned by the coms that the NHS is too busy and you will put pressure on them, then die of a heart attack not unnesesery deaths?

The rising number of deaths due to domestic violence (which has almost doubled and includes children) not unnesesery deaths?

What about the inevitable extended hardship and poverty that has and will inevitably continue to cause death even after the pandemic, is that not unnesesery death?

My answer would be that in an ideal world I want a way that prevents further death from this crisis full stop but sadly that's not possible (unless there's something you're not telling me), so the next best thing is minimizing deaths as much as humanly possible, both directly and indirectly. In my opinion a full Draconian lockdown isn't/wasn't that, and for all the talk of it being such Spain and Italy both still have a higher deaths percentage than the UK on Covid alone, I don't know the indirect statistics from other illnesses but I can't imagine they're pretty (I know Italy are having serious mental health and poverty problems especially down South where some parents have resorted to begging supermarkets to give them a free shop).

So no, no death is acceptable and that's why I want whatever measures that will put them at the absolute lowest humanly possible, both from Covid and other illnesses.

So, if we are to restart in June, we won't be finished by July right, like at the very least, so there won't really be a break and preseason for the players at all? Unless you plan on pushing next season back a bit more, again causing another big knock on effect for years to come, because we’ll also have the Euro’s that will be played in the summer that season, then aren’t we looking at a World Cup? After that in January?

The schedule is going to be f**ked, all because we are rushing to get this season underway.

16 hours ago, Argo said:

So the people that will die of cancer due to not having access to treatments, that not unnesesery death?

The people who kill themselves during this period not unnesesery deaths?

An elderly relative of mine has not been getting his blood tests recently, about a decade ago such test identified a problem and almost certainly saved his life, so if he had that issue in 2020 and it wasn't identified on time wouldn't that be an unnecessary death?

The people that don't feel well but don't call an ambulance because they've been as good as contidioned by the coms that the NHS is too busy and you will put pressure on them, then die of a heart attack not unnesesery deaths?

The rising number of deaths due to domestic violence (which has almost doubled and includes children) not unnesesery deaths?

What about the inevitable extended hardship and poverty that has and will inevitably continue to cause death even after the pandemic, is that not unnesesery death?

My answer would be that in an ideal world I want a way that prevents further death from this crisis full stop but sadly that's not possible (unless there's something you're not telling me), so the next best thing is minimizing deaths as much as humanly possible, both directly and indirectly. In my opinion a full Draconian lockdown isn't/wasn't that, and for all the talk of it being such Spain and Italy both still have a higher deaths percentage than the UK on Covid alone, I don't know the indirect statistics from other illnesses but I can't imagine they're pretty (I know Italy are having serious mental health and poverty problems especially down South where some parents have resorted to begging supermarkets to give them a free shop).

So no, no death is acceptable and that's why I want whatever measures that will put them at the absolute lowest humanly possible, both from Covid and other illnesses.

No, none of your examples are acceptable.  Fund the care services properly and none of them would need to happen.  Accept a criminally negligent dogmatic government committed to an ill thought-out and irresponsible "herd immunity" plan and that just compounds all of the very real fears you outline above.  You and I, and more importantly, our press and broadcast media, should be screaming this from the rooftops and holding these criminals to account.

No reasonable person can think that this releasing of the very loose restrictions that were applied too late in the first place is anything other than putting wealth over health, getting the plebs back to work, regardless of safety, forcing them to send their kids back to school despite there being no indication that this won't just generate a second, bigger wave of infection.

You're wrong about Spain and Italy, they don't have higher death rates and they  didn't have the advantage that we had of seeing the progress in other countries.  The UK is internationally recognised as being the second worst affected, with only Trump's dystopian asylum having a worse death rate than us.  

If you truly "want whatever measures that will put them at the absolute lowest humanly possible,", then that is Stay at Home, Avoid the f**kwits, provide regular test, trace and isolation for everyone found to be corona-positive and wait for a working vaccine.

And demand that the government address this in the interests of the entire population and not in the interests of their own careers, or to stop making decisions now in order to blame-shift to cover their arses for when the country gets to the state where it can actually deal with a truly independent enquiry into how this was so massively mishandled.

They have already passed the buck to you, if you die it is because you didn't stay alert, and are now blaming the scientists for giving the "wrong advice". 

There is no level to which these people will not stoop in their self-serving desperation to cling onto power, appease the billionaire press magnates and hedge funds that need to avoid any EU scrutiny of their tax-avoidance schemes, and pander to the xenophobic Little Englander bigots who "want brexit done" regardless of the cost in human life and misery.

 

 

The following is taken from the BBC website. As it says, 40,000 tests will be required for the Premier League to be completed. Test kits will be supplied by Prenetics. A representative from that company has said that none of those test kits are earmarked for the NHS. In my view, that is a lot of tosh. What's to say that those kits cannot be given to the NHS and clubs wait their turn. I've nothing about the players but more the clubs, broadcasters, sponsors etc. Troy Denney hit the nail on the head when he said that he doesn't want to return to training as he is afraid that his five month old child could be infected. The child has breathing difficulties.

"For the Premier League to complete the season, it could require about 40,000 privately conducted tests.

The tests are being carried out by digital health company Prenetics.

Avi Lasarow, chief executive of Prenetics EMEA (Europe Middle East Africa), told BBC Sport that "categorically" none of the tests the company will carry out for the Premier League could have been used by the NHS.

"We of course do not impinge or take away from any testing the NHS is doing," he said.

"All the tests are privately sourced, as well as the other areas of the supply chains, so they are definitely not taking away from the NHS.

"The government has an infrastructure capability which has been developed to scale up to mass testing volume. It is very clear that we can now see that happening and as an organisation if we were asked to provide additional services we would prioritise that."

Lasarow added that the tests are 98.8% accurate, which will improve with repeated testing of Premier League personnel, and that the company is able to turn around results in 48 hours."

On a related issue, the FA is in discussions about whether or not to cancel the WSL. Surely if the WSL is cancelled the Premier League can be cancelled. Oh wait (putting on my sarcastic voice) the men's game attracts more money. By cancelling the WSL it proves that it is about money and not the nation's morale.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52737203

The question was asked recently by the New Scientist are men more susceptible to the virus than women. So from a health perspective it would be safer to cancel the Premier League than the WSL

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2240898-why-are-men-more-likely-to-get-worse-symptoms-and-die-from-covid-19/

2 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

.  Fund the care services properly and none of them would need to happen. 

Errrr I think someone is forgetting that we now have to stand outside and clap them every week surely thats better than funding or paying them properly 

6 minutes ago, Bonzodog29 said:

Errrr I think someone is forgetting that we now have to stand outside and clap them every week surely thats better than funding or paying them properly 

Not to mention the very same front line care workers and NHS staff from abroad who are keeping the system going have themselves to pay to use the NHS. Boris and his cronies will clapping tomorrow whilst muttering under their breath 'f*ck you' 

Edited May 20, 20206 yr by charierre

Is there still a belief that this season will get finished? I'm amazed they're even bothering to try. I think the second bigger wave is only about two weeks off now, following the VE Day debacle and then the 'easing' that a good chunk of the population took as a "f**k it, I'm bored now and I don't actually care about anyone else or have the foresight to even care about myself beyond the next few days". With footballers inviting round prostitutes, having car crashes, haircuts etc, they'll be testing positive by the bucketful. I'm seriously doubtful there will be a next season, let alone an end to this one.

Just announced thousands of jobs to be lost at Rolls Royce in Derby and this is going to be replicated up and down the country. Which begs the question if football does return with fans allowed in who's going to attend ?. For me someone earning £200,000 a week it just doesn't sit right (never has done) when people have lost their jobs and have had to claim for Universal Credit. Clubs in the lower leagues especially will find that fans will have put football firmly at the bottom of their priority list when local businesses who employ them have gone bust.

Even Premier league clubs like Burnley will struggle financially and Turf Moor is only ever sold out when the big clubs come to town always loads of empty seats otherwise. Top tier football is financially out of reach for the average man and woman it's going to be even less affordable for the foreseeable future.

Edited May 20, 20206 yr by bluehaze

DP

Edited May 21, 20206 yr by Argo

FC Seoul apologises for 'sex dolls' in stands

12 hours ago, bluehaze said:

Just announced thousands of jobs to be lost at Rolls Royce in Derby and this is going to be replicated up and down the country. Which begs the question if football does return with fans allowed in who's going to attend ?. For me someone earning £200,000 a week it just doesn't sit right (never has done) when people have lost their jobs and have had to claim for Universal Credit. Clubs in the lower leagues especially will find that fans will have put football firmly at the bottom of their priority list when local businesses who employ them have gone bust.

Even Premier league clubs like Burnley will struggle financially and Turf Moor is only ever sold out when the big clubs come to town always loads of empty seats otherwise. Top tier football is financially out of reach for the average man and woman it's going to be even less affordable for the foreseeable future.

Had same conversation with mates I go with bluehaze, some of the younger lads we go with, have only seen packed stadiums and the football boom, they keep saying it will be harder to get tickets when back, as everyone will be wanting to go. Us older ones disagree and think stadiums will be far emptier, due to economics, people realising there's more than football, and also the JCL's, tourists and even the old skool hardcore being pissed off with football in general on how it's conducted itself through this whole affair. Mind you if the football boom does go pop, fans can play the old pre match game of guess the crowd again!! 

Whilst i understand playing behind closed doors, i don’t understand the reasoning for neutral venues. Only reason is that they can control things better with neutral venues? 
 

If not, just let clubs play in their stadium and give strict cleaning instructions 

Kante not keen on playing again. Dont blame him. He has an awful family history and Callum is breaking lockdown. 

This is getting more and more ludicrous.

My view now on all this bollox is that we all know the football authorities are basing the return purely on money, and sod everything else and what people think, the government are at present letting football begin simply for popularity and to please the masses of football fans (think they might of misread that one) you only have to take a look and hear the cultural and sport secretary to see he hasn't a clue about football and it culture, he's obviously a theatre or opera fan (each to their own) if  he has ever been to football match you can bet it would of been Arsenal with all the other luvvies! A mate of mine has worked dealing with the public all through this and as he said, he hasn't been tested or had chance, but footballers get tested 2 or 3 times a week just to kick a ball around on a field.

I seriously think some of the more intelligent footballers don't want to play not just because of health reasons but also the god damn principle of it all!!

15 minutes ago, chi blue said:

My view now on all this bollox is that we all know the football authorities are basing the return purely on money, and sod everything else and what people think, the government are at present letting football begin simply for popularity and to please the masses of football fans (think they might of misread that one) you only have to take a look and hear the cultural and sport secretary to see he hasn't a clue about football and it culture, he's obviously a theatre or opera fan (each to their own) if  he has ever been to football match you can bet it would of been Arsenal with all the other luvvies! A mate of mine has worked dealing with the public all through this and as he said, he hasn't been tested or had chance, but footballers get tested 2 or 3 times a week just to kick a ball around on a field.

I seriously think some of the more intelligent footballers don't want to play not just because of health reasons but also the god damn principle of it all!!

You're spot on about money being the only factor for the footballing authorities. It would be great if they were to admit that but I can't see that happening. As you wrote in another post, personal economics will play a major role in whether or not people go to games again. With people short of money, football will be down the list. I watched the Government press briefing yesterday and the minister didn't have a clue. I was also pissed off with one of the questions when the questioner only asked about the return of Premier League football as if that's the only league that matters. 

What worries me is that when football comes back on TV that the commentators will come up with crap like it's good to be back and during the matches the pundits will come up with crap like that player was brave and we know you've missed football. If they do, it will show how out of touch they are.

As we've both mentioned before it's meeting up with mates before and after the games that we miss. The banter is great and a lot of it has nothing to do with football. And as for the insults. Well, only the stuff great friends can get away with!

3 hours ago, chi blue said:

Had same conversation with mates I go with bluehaze, some of the younger lads we go with, have only seen packed stadiums and the football boom, they keep saying it will be harder to get tickets when back, as everyone will be wanting to go. Us older ones disagree and think stadiums will be far emptier, due to economics, people realising there's more than football, and also the JCL's, tourists and even the old skool hardcore being pissed off with football in general on how it's conducted itself through this whole affair. Mind you if the football boom does go pop, fans can play the old pre match game of guess the crowd again!! 

Maybe the mods could organise a poll something along the lines of: Are you looking forward to football returning? Can't wait, lost interest, unaffordable etc.

47 minutes ago, Boyne said:

You're spot on about money being the only factor for the footballing authorities. It would be great if they were to admit that but I can't see that happening. As you wrote in another post, personal economics will play a major role in whether or not people go to games again. With people short of money, football will be down the list. I watched the Government press briefing yesterday and the minister didn't have a clue. I was also pissed off with one of the questions when the questioner only asked about the return of Premier League football as if that's the only league that matters. 

What worries me is that when football comes back on TV that the commentators will come up with crap like it's good to be back and during the matches the pundits will come up with crap like that player was brave and we know you've missed football. If they do, it will show how out of touch they are.

As we've both mentioned before it's meeting up with mates before and after the games that we miss. The banter is great and a lot of it has nothing to do with football. And as for the insults. Well, only the stuff great friends can get away with!

Yes funny, it's the whole day I'm missing, not the football, a mate sent a picture of the Atlas garden in West Brompton this morning, and the urge especially in this weather to be sitting out there pre match was very great.

What i miss...

Match day buzz, not just attending games but wherever you are, that same feeling you get when the Mrs gives you a promise.

Also this season in particular, its been a very big buzz season, Frank returning and succeeding beyond our dreams, the start we made was meteoric, we played ours kids, then when they were injured we played even younger kids, and it just got better and better. Sure we are not anywhere near ready to tackle top of the table, but they are the best green shoots i have ever seen at the club in my time.......

.....then the virus.

 

 

Did i mention VAR ?

So the authorities are fine with forcing a restart even if star players don't want to play for very understandable reasons.

Every passing day makes the greed more apparent. Sickening really. 

1 hour ago, chi blue said:

Yes funny, it's the whole day I'm missing, not the football, a mate sent a picture of the Atlas garden in West Brompton this morning, and the urge especially in this weather to be sitting out there pre match was very great.

Yes, it's the whole day not just the football. Often the only time you see people is on match days whether it's in the ground or the pub or both. There is a great camaraderie which you only get at football. The Atlas is a great little pub. We often go in there after the game. Does a great selection of real ale.

8 hours ago, chi blue said:

Had same conversation with mates I go with bluehaze, some of the younger lads we go with, have only seen packed stadiums and the football boom, they keep saying it will be harder to get tickets when back, as everyone will be wanting to go. Us older ones disagree and think stadiums will be far emptier, due to economics, people realising there's more than football, and also the JCL's, tourists and even the old skool hardcore being pissed off with football in general on how it's conducted itself through this whole affair. Mind you if the football boom does go pop, fans can play the old pre match game of guess the crowd again!! 

I wonder if there is a realistic possibility of the bubble bursting. As @Boyne pointed out in another post, the press are acting as if only the Premier League matters and that fans are straining at the leash to attend games again. I don't know about that. People I know are being pretty blase about football coming back this season and if it does, what concessions can the fans expect?

56 minutes ago, Stretford Ender said:

I wonder if there is a realistic possibility of the bubble bursting. As @Boyne pointed out in another post, the press are acting as if only the Premier League matters and that fans are straining at the leash to attend games again. I don't know about that. People I know are being pretty blase about football coming back this season and if it does, what concessions can the fans expect?

The Premier League has, unfortunately, come up with the notion that it is the only league worth watching. The media doesn't help matters. More often than not the media makes out that there was no football before the Premier League.

As for concessions, Chelsea have said that season ticket holders will be refunded for not being able to attend the four remaining home games for this season. Have Manchester United offered any concessions? What is the view of United fans about this season? A couple I know are ST holders at Man. City. I'm going to drop them a line to ask what they think.

11 hours ago, Argo said:

FC Seoul apologises for 'sex dolls' in stands

Strange not quite sure this really hurt women and another take too:

https://www.newindianexpress.com/sport/football/2020/may/21/korean-football-club-fills-empty-stadium-with-sex-dolls-fined-for-hurting-women-fans-2146137.html

Edited May 21, 20206 yr by strider6004

12 minutes ago, Boyne said:

The Premier League has, unfortunately, come up with the notion that it is the only league worth watching. The media doesn't help matters. More often than not the media makes out that there was no football before the Premier League.

As for concessions, Chelsea have said that season ticket holders will be refunded for not being able to attend the four remaining home games for this season. Have Manchester United offered any concessions? What is the view of United fans about this season? A couple I know are ST holders at Man. City. I'm going to drop them a line to ask what they think.

According to the club:

"In the event of behind closed doors or cancelled matches, season ticket holders will be offered a pro-rata rebate against their season tickets for next season or a pro-rata cash refund based on the number of games remaining. Rebates or refunds will also apply to supporters that have paid in advance for general admission tickets and VIP packages, while a rebate will be offered to seasonal Executive Club members."

My own opinion is that we should scrap the season as the Dutch have done. No promotion, no relegation. CL places allotted to Liverpool, Chelsea, and Leicester. The outcome of City's appeal to decide who gets the 4th spot.

So what would happen if any club had most, or possibly all, of their first team players do as Deeney and Kante have done and say "sorry family and my health comes first"

PL demands the strongest squad, will they accept the Warford or Chelsea youth teams competing and still call it fair competition?