He has nobody else to blame but himself. He has missed easily 10 one on one opportunities since he has been here, chances you would expect a conference striker to easily put away.

Missing the occasional sitter is fine, but he's surpassed Morata levels in his first few months here. Granted that yes, he's not playing in a counter attacking system or through the middle that could suit his needs better. But I'm not having those excuses for why he can't finish a simple chance. It's getting beyond a joke now, almost every game it's the same with him, he needs about 3 good chances to score. That's no good, that's literally the reason we brought someone else in for Abraham, and out of the two Abraham is the better finisher. 

15 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Strictly about scoring, you should't expect a striker to score more efficiantly while playing as a winger. End of.

I like Werner a lot and I think he will come good, but you have a weird idea of logic and common sense.  I really DO expect a striker to put away at least SOME of the very simple chances that he has missed, and the nominal position he is playing is totally irrelevant to that.  Some of the chances he has missed were very much easier to score than to miss and at least 1 that I recall was putting the ball over the bar in front of an empty net.

We take the piss out of Sterling when he does that regularly, and I see no difference with Werner

End of.

(Obviously unless you have a raft of google stats and pictures that prove missing an open goal is a natural response for any footballer.)

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

 

(Obviously unless you have a raft of google stats and pictures that prove missing an open goal is a natural response for any footballer.)

But have you seen his highlight reel on Youtube? Obviously not. 

 

/s

Edited December 24, 20205 yr by reparto corse

21 minutes ago, reparto corse said:

But have you seen his highlight reel on Youtube? Obviously not. 

 

/s

You mean this one?

10 minutes ago, Slojo said:

You mean this one?

This is obviously solely because he's being played out of position. If I put Mount or Pulisic on CF I'd expect him to miss all those too.

4 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

This is obviously solely because he's being played out of position. If I put Mount or Pulisic on CF I'd expect him to miss all those too.

But we have two proper strikers who would finish several of those chances, that's the point, he has to be better than those we already have to get the central berth, and the only way to prove it is by putting those chances away.

8 minutes ago, Vagabond said:

This is obviously solely because he's being played out of position. If I put Mount or Pulisic on CF I'd expect him to miss all those too.

Sarcasm, right?

3 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

I like Werner a lot and I think he will come good, but you have a weird idea of logic and common sense.  I really DO expect a striker to put away at least SOME of the very simple chances that he has missed, and the nominal position he is playing is totally irrelevant to that.  Some of the chances he has missed were very much easier to score than to miss and at least 1 that I recall was putting the ball over the bar in front of an empty net.

We take the piss out of Sterling when he does that regularly, and I see no difference with Werner

End of.

(Obviously unless you have a raft of google stats and pictures that prove missing an open goal is a natural response for any footballer.)

What is that exactly, that "weird idea of logic and common sense" ? My argument is that he even in his best position and in the best possible setup still misses a lot of chances, anyone that watched him will tell you that. So while he simply isn't in his best position it's only logical that he might perform worse and apparently this is what has happened to him, he has missed chances that he even normally would score.

I also expect him to score more, but I saw him from the first match here till his last and he clearly spent a whole lot of time outside of his comfort zone; I saw him running up and down the wing like crazy for 90 min and for more than 5 games in a row, only to get into 2 chances per game and miss them, all that affected him and as time passed by he was less and less impactful in games, this is a fact, as time passed by he became worse and worse and you can't argue that. He spent a whole lot more energy to get into a chance, only to miss it anyway and after doing that for many games in a row he clearly lost his confidence, some 5 games ago he could miss a great chance, turn around with his head up and keep working, now he missed a great chance he puts his head down.

I can't see where are you showing me that it's 100% his own fault when he clearly has been asked to do things that he previously didn't need to do, all I say is that there is a clear excuse for him as to why he isn't doing so well, which is that his position and role is different from last season and that is also a fact. All that matters to a player no matter how professional he is, and make no mistake here, Timo is a great professional but his goal drought isn't all due to him missing chances, unless you can prove that he was bought to be specifically this inside-forward/winger that he is now.

(I'm talking about him while giving a more clear and more full picture about what kind of a player he is, I don't only focus on him missing a chance like you)

 

 

1 hour ago, coco said:

But we have two proper strikers who would finish several of those chances, that's the point, he has to be better than those we already have to get the central berth, and the only way to prove it is by putting those chances away.

I'll just leave this here and say that if we had put Giroud or Tammy on the wing while Timo was in the middle, their contribution might have been exactly like Timo's contribution is now. 

13 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

What is that exactly, that "weird idea of logic and common sense" ? My argument is that he even in his best position and in the best possible setup still misses a lot of chances, anyone that watched him will tell you that. So while he simply isn't in his best position it's only logical that he might perform worse and apparently this is what has happened to him, he has missed chances that he even normally would score.

I also expect him to score more, but I saw him from the first match here till his last and he clearly spent a whole lot of time outside of his comfort zone; I saw him running up and down the wing like crazy for 90 min and for more than 5 games in a row, only to get into 2 chances per game and miss them, all that affected him and as time passed by he was less and less impactful in games, this is a fact, as time passed by he became worse and worse and you can't argue that. He spent a whole lot more energy to get into a chance, only to miss it anyway and after doing that for many games in a row he clearly lost his confidence, some 5 games ago he could miss a great chance, turn around with his head up and keep working, now he missed a great chance he puts his head down.

I can't see where are you showing me that it's 100% his own fault when he clearly has been asked to do things that he previously didn't need to do, all I say is that there is a clear excuse for him as to why he isn't doing so well, which is that his position and role is different from last season and that is also a fact. All that matters to a player no matter how professional he is, and make no mistake here, Timo is a great professional but his goal drought isn't all due to him missing chances, unless you can prove that he was bought to be specifically this inside-forward/winger that he is now.

(I'm talking about him while giving a more clear and more full picture about what kind of a player he is, I don't only focus on him missing a chance like you)

 

 

I find it hard to believe that his finishing is affected by where his starting position is. It's completely the wrong way of thinking. The finishing position is the most important part, getting into that position is what all cf's do, he gets that bit right from the wide starting position, so why not just finish it off, the bit your'e lauding him for, is the bit he's struggling with. I'm happy for him to get a chance in the centre, but if Frank thinks Tammy or Olivier are the better option for any given game, i'm not arguing with him because they have shown they are better finishers than Timo is at the moment.

 

9 minutes ago, coco said:

I find it hard to believe that his finishing is affected by where his starting position is. It's completely the wrong way of thinking. The finishing position is the most important part, getting into that position is what all cf's do, he gets that bit right from the wide starting position, so why not just finish it off, the bit your'e lauding him for, is the bit he's struggling with. I'm happy for him to get a chance in the centre, but if Frank thinks Tammy or Olivier are the better option for any given game, i'm not arguing with him because they have shown they are better finishers than Timo is at the moment.

 

I just want to make it clear that I don't advocate that Tammy/Giroud should be benched, or anything like that.

I just believe that Timo's poor performances are not 100% his own fault, and I think that there is a clear case for it because he spent a lot of energy game after game hugging the touchline in many moments.

Mount didn't perform that well while playing on the wing either and I was also against him playing there, for example and I know for sure that I wasn't alone in that view either.

31 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I just want to make it clear that I don't advocate that Tammy/Giroud should be benched, or anything like that.

I just believe that Timo's poor performances are not 100% his own fault, and I think that there is a clear case for it because he spent a lot of energy game after game hugging the touchline in many moments.

Mount didn't perform that well while playing on the wing either and I was also against him playing there, for example and I know for sure that I wasn't alone in that view either.

The weird logic is that you can claim, seemingly with a fervent self-belief, that a striker missing open goals is both acceptable and the fault of his manager playing him in a position that he has played in many, many times before, and in which, from your own graphics, he has both scored and assisted.

See, I think that the issue might be your obsession with apportioning or not apportioning blame.  No-one at all is  is doing that.  All most of us appear to be saying is that he has missed a shed-load of very good goal-scoring chances, including in front of an open goal and several that I would have scored.  For that reason alone, he has not justified replacing Abraham or Giroud as our main striker, .

 

He is not actually playing in a brand new position according to all of the reports that you and others have provided in here.

Edited December 24, 20205 yr by yorkleyblue

2 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

See, I think that the issue might be your obsession with apportioning or not apportioning blame.  No-one at all is  is doing that.  All most of us appear to be saying is that he has missed a shed-load of very good goal-scoring chances, including in front of an open goal and several that I would have scored.  For that reason alone, he has not justified replacing Abraham or Giroud as our main striker, .

 

He is not actually playing in a brand new position according to all of the reports that you and others have provided in here.

Most in the recent pages argue that it's only his own fault. I don't agree with that. But I never advocated that Tammy or Giroud should be benched, I just don't think that you should expect Timo to do better in a different role, it's only normal that he becomes slightly worse until he adapts.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Most in the recent pages argue that it's only his own fault. I don't agree with that. But I never advocated that Tammy or Giroud should be benched, I just don't think that you should expect Timo to do better in a different role, it's only normal that he becomes slightly worse until he adapts.

Yeah that's fair enough, i don't expect him to do better on the flanks, i reckon he will be a top scorer at this club (being the #1 pen taker guarantees double figures for him from out wide, not bad at all for rookie prem season. But still doesn't cover the fact he's missing those chances and people like YB and myself are rightly worried.

35 minutes ago, coco said:

Yeah that's fair enough, i don't expect him to do better on the flanks, i reckon he will be a top scorer at this club (being the #1 pen taker guarantees double figures for him from out wide, not bad at all for rookie prem season. But still doesn't cover the fact he's missing those chances and people like YB and myself are rightly worried.

It is worrying. He needs to be more clinical, we can all agree on that, how he is supposed to do it well that's the question...

He has played pretty much all games without resting so far so maybe that also came into play in the most recent games, he got worse over time maybe because he's still adapting to the new league and he got more tired overall. I think that a slight rest would do good for him, a small reset. If he doesn't do well against Arsenal I would be fine with him being on the bench against Villa, maybe then he would come back much stronger in 2021.

8 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

It is worrying. He needs to be more clinical, we can all agree on that, how he is supposed to do it well that's the question...

He has played pretty much all games without resting so far so maybe that also came into play in the most recent games, he got worse over time maybe because he's still adapting to the new league and he got more tired overall. I think that a slight rest would do good for him, a small reset. If he doesn't do well against Arsenal I would be fine with him being on the bench against Villa, maybe then he would come back much stronger in 2021.

The longer he goes without a goal, the more pronounced the misses become, desperation starts to set in, and instead of trying clever finishes, he goes for safe finishes, concentrating on just hitting the target, but usually straight at the keeper, we just want to see him being a clever finisher, waiting for the keeper to move first, not rushing it and playing safe.

Maybe with CHO and Pulisic back in the team we can see Werner play in the middle of the two

35 minutes ago, coco said:

The longer he goes without a goal, the more pronounced the misses become, desperation starts to set in, and instead of trying clever finishes, he goes for safe finishes, concentrating on just hitting the target, but usually straight at the keeper, we just want to see him being a clever finisher, waiting for the keeper to move first, not rushing it and playing safe.

I think that's pretty much how he has been doing lately. In the first half Pulisic passed to him and he had the time to prepare for that but he looked like he wasn't sure what he wants to do and he just hit it with his left straight at the keeper, in the second half Kante passed to him and he was in a similar situation just more on the right side and he just smashed it without thinking that time and hit the bar, to me that's a real sign of desperation like you say. He lost his mojo and his first touch isn't the best so it all results in him being frustrated.

I really hope he scores against Arsenal, that would be a good way to regain some confidence. 

19 hours ago, dkw said:

Sarcasm, right?

Indeed.

He has the yips currently

Disgusted with him.

Don't want to hear excuses. First and foremost he's a footballer and after that he's an attacker.

Yet he can't look like a half decent footballer. Literally Morata level right now.

Alright I'm there with him.  Abysmal.  Worse than Torres, and on Morata level. Takes some doing.

6 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Disgusted with him.

Don't want to hear excuses. First and foremost he's a footballer and after that he's an attacker.

Yet he can't look like a half decent footballer. Literally Morata level right now.

Morata never had to play out wide though. He's playing poorly because he's playing out of position and his confidence is shot. How many games does Lampard have to watch Werner outwide to realise this?. I guarantee when he plays centre forward he will look a different player.

Why can't we just start Werner at LW but allow him to move inside more and play more centrally for stretches of the game. It's madness to have him run up and down the touchline all game and put Pulisic out of position just so Werner remains a starter. 

 

1 minute ago, reparto corse said:

Why can't we just start Werner at LW but allow him to move inside more and play more centrally for stretches of the game. It's madness to have him run up and down the touchline all game and put Pulisic out of position just so Werner remains a starter. 

 

Or why can't we just bench Werner completely and play an actual winger there who is like one of our best players if not the best. Then play CHO on the right until Ziyech is fit.