If Ziyech is fit is Werner the one to drop out against Arsenal?

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

If Ziyech is fit is Werner the one to drop out against Arsenal?

I know Abraham just scored twice and people would say it is harsh to drop him, but if it was my choice, I would play Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech if Ziyech is fit. I mean, this was why we bought Werner and Ziyech wasn't it? If we can ever actually get these 3 all fit at the same time, then surely we need to play them.

It is ridiculous that we haven’t really seen that front three yet, apart from 1 or 2 games?

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

I know Abraham just scored twice and people would say it is harsh to drop him, but if it was my choice, I would play Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech if Ziyech is fit. I mean, this was why we bought Werner and Ziyech wasn't it? If we can ever actually get these 3 all fit at the same time, then surely we need to play them.

Are they the best 3 to face Arsenal though?

https://siphillipstalkschelsea.substack.com/p/turbo-timo-what-happened?r=ano63&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web&utm_source=twitter

Good article

People in the matchday thread saying we've ruined one of the best strikers in Europe, excuse me? ruined? RUINED?? R-U-I-N-E-D!!??? 

He's had it on a f**king plate, he should be on about 15 goals this season if he had the finshing abillity of an U-15 Accrington Stanley striker. He's missing more chances than Morata did and that's something. I'm not having this ruined narrative, yes he's been pushed out wide but he only has himself to blame when it comes to missing sitters. 

Edited December 22, 20205 yr by Slojo

I don't understand the narrative of playing Werner Centrally over 2 strikers who are clearly in better form. Werner is more of a left sided forward rather than a conventional forward, he is someone who thrives on space in behind and therefore moving him into a central area which will further restrict him of space in behind will definitely do him no favours. 

I think playing Tammy Centrally gives him the best chance to occupy space left behind when Tammy creates space by dragging the CB's out of position. Tammy is mobile enough to move into the channels and allow both Pulisic and Werner to run in from wide, this was the main reason Werner was able to get space Centrally for his chances last night. 

9 hours ago, Slojo said:

People in the matchday thread saying we've ruined one of the best strikers in Europe, excuse me? ruined? RUINED?? R-U-I-N-E-D!!??? 

He's had it on a f**king plate, he should be on about 15 goals this season if he had the finshing abillity of an U-15 Accrington Stanley striker. He's missing more chances than Morata did and that's something. I'm not having this ruined narrative, yes he's been pushed out wide but he only has himself to blame when it comes to missing sitters. 

It's a popular narrative on here that playing him out wide has somehow ruined his confidence and that's causing him to miss sitters.  I'm no expert in sports psychology but that sounds like bollocks to me. 

23 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

I don't understand the narrative of playing Werner Centrally over 2 strikers who are clearly in better form. Werner is more of a left sided forward rather than a conventional forward, he is someone who thrives on space in behind and therefore moving him into a central area which will further restrict him of space in behind will definitely do him no favours. 

I think playing Tammy Centrally gives him the best chance to occupy space left behind when Tammy creates space by dragging the CB's out of position. Tammy is mobile enough to move into the channels and allow both Pulisic and Werner to run in from wide, this was the main reason Werner was able to get space Centrally for his chances last night. 

Tammy and Giroud have been scoring but Werner is being asked to play outside of his best position.

If he were to play as the striker he might also be in a good form, but if Lampard keeps playing him as a winger he might never get into a good form again...

This is clearly not a good enough reason to bench Tammy/Giroud but the fact remains, we don't see the best from Werner since he isn't being used in the best way. That has affected him, there are no doubts about it.

Edited December 23, 20205 yr by Gol15

14 hours ago, TheSage said:

It's a popular narrative on here that playing him out wide has somehow ruined his confidence and that's causing him to miss sitters.  I'm no expert in sports psychology but that sounds like bollocks to me. 

You don't need to be an expert to understand that a player will be worse when he's suddenly being asked to play something different from what he is used to play. This is just common sense. 

28 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

You don't need to be an expert to understand that a player will be worse when he's suddenly being asked to play something different from what he is used to play. This is just common sense. 

No, it's not common sense, it's nonsense. Nobody is asking him to be a world class winger. When he gets into a position to score, the position he's playing should not matter. Are you saying Lampard or the other coaching staff have no common sense since they continue playing him on the wing? 

Just now, TheSage said:

No, it's not common sense, it's nonsense. Nobody is asking him to be a world class winger. When he gets into a position to score, the position he's playing should not matter. Are you saying Lampard or the other coaching staff have no common sense since they continue playing him on the wing? 

It's not common sense to expect a player to be worse when he isn't in his best position? I think you need to rethink and reflect on that for a bit...

He was running like a mad man on the wing for many games and found himself in 1 good position and missed, from that it went to 2 good chances then the next game he missed 3 great chances, this last game he had 1 clear-cut chance in each half, he missed both. Even as a striker he should be more clinical but it's clearly not about his ability here that is lacking, he probably got worse in his finishing, not better!

He isn't a winger and as we can clearly notice it apparently does matter what position a player is playing.

He's a striker, one of the best strikers last season because he scored over 30 goals in all competitions. He does miss chances, he's one of those players that missed a whole lot of chances last season, probably in the top 5 out of all top strikers in Europe when it comes to chances missed (Look I just said he was one of the top strikers in whole Europe last season).

But because he's a striker he gets into positions to score a goal more often and makes up for his misses, at least that's what he managed to do last season. As a winger it's more difficult for him to make up for his own misses because it takes more time for him to get into a chance, more effort, thus that's not him playing to his own strengths.

It's common sense to play him where he's at his best, Lampard put him as our striker first, then changed due to different circumstances.

Oh yeah playing on the wing means you can't finish chances. 

37 minutes ago, TheSage said:

No, it's not common sense, it's nonsense. Nobody is asking him to be a world class winger. When he gets into a position to score, the position he's playing should not matter. Are you saying Lampard or the other coaching staff have no common sense since they continue playing him on the wing? 

Its ridiculous isnt it, and its not like its a new position to him, he's played it plenty of times for both club and Country. Its not like he's being asked to play full back, and he's still often playing centrally beyond the striker during the game. Playing wide is absolutely no why he is missing chances.

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

Its ridiculous isnt it, and its not like its a new position to him, he's played it plenty of times for both club and Country. Its not like he's being asked to play full back, and he's still often playing centrally beyond the striker during the game. Playing wide is absolutely no why he is missing chances.

After playing wide for some time he's getting worse and worse.

He's a striker after all.

He as a striker used to miss a lot of chances, why do you expect him to be more clinical while not playing at his best position, where he will also get into chances less often?

He may not have an excuse after missing those chances per se but fact is this was maybe bound to happen, we saw him missing more and more, game after game, he has never had this long of a goal drought last season!

I don't find it surprising that he's doing worse so he shouldn't take the full blame for his poor form either simply because he's being asked to play much more wide and on both sides and what not... Unless you can prove that he was specifically bought to be our winger, there is a good excuse for him as to why he has been performing badly in the recent games, end of.

41 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

It's not common sense to expect a player to be worse when he isn't in his best position? I think you need to rethink and reflect on that for a bit...

He was running like a mad man on the wing for many games and found himself in 1 good position and missed, from that it went to 2 good chances then the next game he missed 3 great chances, this last game he had 1 clear-cut chance in each half, he missed both. Even as a striker he should be more clinical but it's clearly not about his ability here that is lacking, he probably got worse in his finishing, not better!

He isn't a winger and as we can clearly notice it apparently does matter what position a player is playing.

He's a striker, one of the best strikers last season because he scored over 30 goals in all competitions. He does miss chances, he's one of those players that missed a whole lot of chances last season, probably in the top 5 out of all top strikers in Europe when it comes to chances missed (Look I just said he was one of the top strikers in whole Europe last season).

But because he's a striker he gets into positions to score a goal more often and makes up for his misses, at least that's what he managed to do last season. As a winger it's more difficult for him to make up for his own misses because it takes more time for him to get into a chance, more effort, thus that's not him playing to his own strengths.

It's common sense to play him where he's at his best, Lampard put him as our striker first, then changed due to different circumstances.

Once again, nobody is asking him to be a world class winger. We are talking strictly about scoring.  Nobody would complain if he wasn't a great winger but still  scores the  great chances that come his way

You even admit that he misses chances even when he's playing as striker (top 5 strikers when it comes to missed chances). In other words, he misses chances regardless of whether he's playing as winger or striker, and therefore your argument that he's missing chances because he's playing as a winger is preposterous.  

I honestly don't have the energy to continue this debate, so this will be my last word on the matter. 

17 minutes ago, TheSage said:

Once again, nobody is asking him to be a world class winger. We are talking strictly about scoring.  Nobody would complain if he wasn't a great winger but still  scores the  great chances that come his way

You even admit that he misses chances even when he's playing as striker (top 5 strikers when it comes to missed chances). In other words, he misses chances regardless of whether he's playing as winger or striker, and therefore your argument that he's missing chances because he's playing as a winger is preposterous.  

I honestly don't have the energy to continue this debate, so this will be my last word on the matter. 

Strictly about scoring, you should't expect a striker to score more efficiantly while playing as a winger. End of.

I don't think he is playing as a winger, he is operating more as an inside forward hence why he keeps getting into great positions to score. The natural width is coming moreso from Chilwell and Mount to a certain extent. 

If we were to drop Tammy/Giroud and play Werner Centrally we lose a lot from an attacking perspective, Werner doesn't get the space in behind and we lose a target man if we look to go long. 

Based on his finishing so far you wouldn't want him to play Centrally over the more conventional Centre forwards. 

Just now, Imran_CFC said:

I don't think he is playing as a winger, he is operating more as an inside forward hence why he keeps getting into great positions to score. The natural width is coming moreso from Chilwell and Mount to a certain extent. 

If we were to drop Tammy/Giroud and play Werner Centrally we lose a lot from an attacking perspective, Werner doesn't get the space in behind and we lose a target man if we look to go long. 

Based on his finishing so far you wouldn't want him to play Centrally over the more conventional Centre forwards. 

Bang on, I dont see how anyone can think he's playing as a winger, he spends plenty of time inside during games, often running on past the centre forward. He hasn't earned the right to play centrally ahead of Giroud or Tammy.

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

Oh yeah playing on the wing means you can't finish chances. 

That would explain Kalou. 

Hopefully this is where he comes good and if he does it will be because I have finally transferred him out of my fantasy football team.

For the first time this season I don't have one CFC player in my squad!

1 minute ago, Nibs said:

Hopefully this is where he comes good and if he does it will be because I have finally transferred him out of my fantasy football team.

For the first time this season I don't have one CFC player in my squad!

1 minute ago, Imran_CFC said:

I don't think he is playing as a winger, he is operating more as an inside forward hence why he keeps getting into great positions to score. The natural width is coming moreso from Chilwell and Mount to a certain extent. 

If we were to drop Tammy/Giroud and play Werner Centrally we lose a lot from an attacking perspective, Werner doesn't get the space in behind and we lose a target man if we look to go long. 

Based on his finishing so far you wouldn't want him to play Centrally over the more conventional Centre forwards. 

I think you're right, he doesn't want to go so far wide naturally and he does cut inside.

But it doesn't seem to be the most effective position for him overall

Last season he never had this long period of not scoring at all...

His style of play is more suited for counter attacking and so far this season the team isn’t really playing that game. No doubt he needs to finish his chances though and it’s getting frustrating. He is still producing assists lately though Atleast. I’d like to see more from him but I’m far from being down on the lad.

He also isn’t getting service. The post game analysis the other game was spot on. He is making great runs and just not getting the ball at the right time. Atleast 4 times the ball wasn’t played or was too late. He will get goals when the team gets used to his pace, I still think the team takes it for granted.

Edited December 24, 20205 yr by Mouwry

11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think you're right, he doesn't want to go so far wide naturally and he does cut inside.

But it doesn't seem to be the most effective position for him overall

Last season he never had this long period of not scoring at all...

He'll probably score 8 in the next 3-4 games