Just now, Slojo said:

I would agree but not this season, Jorginho looks lost at the moment whenever he plays. Plays well for about 10 minutes and that's it, he can't stop losing the ball. 

Yeah I could agree to that, I was just making the point that we don't have any players like a Cesc who could make balls like that, and Jorginho is the closest thing to it. If you look at the rest of your midfielders, there isn't anyone that creative....

You could argue that bloody Thiago Silva is more creative than most of our midfielders!

3 minutes ago, driller97 said:

Yeah I could agree to that, I was just making the point that we don't have any players like a Cesc who could make balls like that, and Jorginho is the closest thing to it. If you look at the rest of your midfielders, there isn't anyone that creative....

You could argue that bloody Thiago Silva is more creative than most of our midfielders!

The first 20 minutes of that West Ham game, I was like "f**k yeah! That's what we've been missing, long range passes going forward, some killer balls" After that Jorginho was w**k. But it made me realise that Kovacic and Mount aren't doing enough in the midfield, it's just sideways sideways sideways, constantly playing it safe. 

2 hours ago, Slojo said:

The first 20 minutes of that West Ham game, I was like "f**k yeah! That's what we've been missing, long range passes going forward, some killer balls" After that Jorginho was w**k. But it made me realise that Kovacic and Mount aren't doing enough in the midfield, it's just sideways sideways sideways, constantly playing it safe. 

That's not fair!  Kovacic doesn't just sideways pass.  He also runs forward, gets closed down, spins around, then passes it backwards. Accuracy please 😉

5 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

That's not fair!  Kovacic doesn't just sideways pass.  He also runs forward, gets closed down, spins around, then passes it backwards. Accuracy please 😉

I love Kova but this is sadly accurate. 

Now he’s had abit of rest for the first time this season, it may be worth starting him in central against City. It’s only a matter of time until he start taking chances imo, even though it’s been too long.

21 hours ago, Slojo said:

The first 20 minutes of that West Ham game, I was like "f**k yeah! That's what we've been missing, long range passes going forward, some killer balls" After that Jorginho was w**k. But it made me realise that Kovacic and Mount aren't doing enough in the midfield, it's just sideways sideways sideways, constantly playing it safe. 

You hit the nail on the head there, its always f**king sidewards passes and playing it safe... Like when is someone going to make a quality long ball forward or play penetrating passes?

Its the same problem when we try playing out the backk, its just constantly passing side to side outside of Silva

On 30/12/2020 at 16:24, Slojo said:

I love Kova but this is sadly accurate. 

Yeah, Kovacic has not done well this season. Not sure what is wrong with him but he was definitely better last season. 

On 31/12/2020 at 10:53, dansubrosa said:

Now he’s had abit of rest for the first time this season, it may be worth starting him in central against City. It’s only a matter of time until he start taking chances imo, even though it’s been too long.

I am an advocate of playing Tammy or Giroud Centrally as I believe that our strengths from an attacking perspective come from our wide players therefores it's imperative to have a striker with physicality and presence in the box. 

However against City I would like to see Werner playing Centrally as I think we will get plenty of opportunities to counter and I can't see them being able to handle Pulisic, Werner and Ziyech on the transition. 

I’m sorry but I think it is time he has a break from the starting line up.

regardless of what position he starts in whether out wide or up front he just isn’t playing well enough. Always seems to be on the back foot and his body language isn’t great at all. 
we have better options up top than him in ollie and Tammy and certainly better wide players in Pulusic and Cho so it’s time for him to start fighting for his place instead of being included because of the price tag. 

Edited January 3, 20215 yr by turnyitb

To be fair to Timo he was denied a clear pen.

2 minutes ago, turnyitb said:

I’m sorry but I think it is time he has a break from the starting line up.

regardless of what position he starts in whether out wide or up front he just isn’t playing well enough. Always seems to be on the back foot and his body language isn’t great at all. 
we have better options up top than him in ollie and Tammy and certainly better wide players in Pulusic and Cho so it’s time for him to start fighting for his place instead of being included because of the price tag. 

He literally got zero service all 11 were sh*t including the manager but singling him out is just silly.

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

To be fair to Timo he was denied a clear pen.

And he would of taken it and maybe would off scored. The confidence that would have given him, completely different game then.

Just now, Brutos said:

He literally got zero service all 11 were sh*t including the manager but singling him out is just silly.

I’m not necessarily singling him out but it wasn’t just today he’s been poor for a while. 
i Agree his service was sh*t but he has zero presence about him.
With the way we play, sending crosses into the box we need someone hungry to get on the end of things. He just isn’t that type of player. 

2 hours ago, jack_super_class said:

And he would of taken it and maybe would off scored. The confidence that would have given him, completely different game then.

We probably would have still lost but we will never know now. Had that been United VAR would have pulled the ref up as it was a clear and obvious error. Rodri missed the ball, tripped Timo, but no foul. The refs are so bent.

Should not be in the starting 11.  I was a huge fan from his loan season and last year, but my goodness, he is a passenger in the side now.  Offers very little in any phase of play.  He didn't lose it overnight - I think the problems are deeper and the midfield balance and execution is way off.  They all look like they are thinking about every action so much and forgetting to play football.

Edit - thought this was Kova's thread - disregard the above for Timo!

Edited January 4, 20215 yr by PhilH930

14 hours ago, axman2526 said:

To be fair to Timo he was denied a clear pen.

I dont know what the hell Arlo and the other guy on NBC were looking at...they showed the slow mo and the defender obviously tripped Timo... And they were like "he got the ball no penalty "  lol....I wonder if Man U would have gotten the call hmmm

14 hours ago, Brutos said:

He literally got zero service all 11 were sh*t including the manager but singling him out is just silly.

The whole team was sh*t. And has been sh*t for awhile now. 

 

The new Robert Fleck.

The recruitment of strikers now is getting scary bad, possibly another one to add to the list and starting to feel like a square peg in round hole from the offset. Werner has made a name for himself as one of 2 forwards in a particular system, something we overlooked too much during the initial fanfare. He was firing in a formation we’re never going to play and we’ve signed him as a ‘lone’ striker, seemingly not his position and of course we’ve also deployed him on the wing to accommodate Tammy or Giroud ‘when they’re on form’. Sheva, Torres, Morata.. it’s a cursed area for the club, early doors of course.. but the makings of another disaster.

33 minutes ago, Term_X said:

The recruitment of strikers now is getting scary bad, possibly another one to add to the list and starting to feel like a square peg in round hole from the offset. Werner has made a name for himself as one of 2 forwards in a particular system, something we overlooked too much during the initial fanfare. He was firing in a formation we’re never going to play and we’ve signed him as a ‘lone’ striker, seemingly not his position and of course we’ve also deployed him on the wing to accommodate Tammy or Giroud ‘when they’re on form’. Sheva, Torres, Morata.. it’s a cursed area for the club, early doors of course.. but the makings of another disaster.

To be fair out of those three Morata and Torres both had red flags and the board risked signing them. Torres’ goals at Liverpool had already begun to dry out the season before and Morata didn’t really have a spectacular record as a striker for us when we signed him. The club had every reason to sign Werner based on his record at Leipzig so I wouldn’t blame recruitment when it comes to Werner. I also think it’s to early to call him a flop, there is still time for him to make this first season a decent one if he can find his feet.

Edited January 4, 20215 yr by Frankie8Lampard

1 hour ago, Term_X said:

The recruitment of strikers now is getting scary bad, possibly another one to add to the list and starting to feel like a square peg in round hole from the offset. Werner has made a name for himself as one of 2 forwards in a particular system, something we overlooked too much during the initial fanfare. He was firing in a formation we’re never going to play and we’ve signed him as a ‘lone’ striker, seemingly not his position and of course we’ve also deployed him on the wing to accommodate Tammy or Giroud ‘when they’re on form’. Sheva, Torres, Morata.. it’s a cursed area for the club, early doors of course.. but the makings of another disaster.

Thing is, werner played as striker yesterday for the first time in ages.

When he's playing out wide, we need to be less focused on the goals. Same as with Pulisic. No one seems to care how few goals he's scored since returning from injury. 

 

3 hours ago, Term_X said:

The recruitment of strikers now is getting scary bad, possibly another one to add to the list and starting to feel like a square peg in round hole from the offset. Werner has made a name for himself as one of 2 forwards in a particular system, something we overlooked too much during the initial fanfare. He was firing in a formation we’re never going to play and we’ve signed him as a ‘lone’ striker, seemingly not his position and of course we’ve also deployed him on the wing to accommodate Tammy or Giroud ‘when they’re on form’. Sheva, Torres, Morata.. it’s a cursed area for the club, early doors of course.. but the makings of another disaster.

Klopp wanted him at Liverpool to play in a front 3 and i think Klopp a pretty good judge of a players ability.

 

1 hour ago, jack_super_class said:

Klopp wanted him at Liverpool to play in a front 3 and i think Klopp a pretty good judge of a players ability.

I take your point about Klopp, wonder how he would have utilised him.. or maybe that could have failed, because it’s not like Liverpool play with two centre forwards like he’s used to.

1 hour ago, Term_X said:

 

I take your point about Klopp, wonder how he would have utilised him.. or maybe that could have failed, because it’s not like Liverpool play with two centre forwards like he’s used to.

Klopp would have maximised use of Werner’s pace for sure and he’d be absolutely unstoppable. Possibly the new Torres at Liverpool.

The way we play don’t suit him sadly. Hard to see how he can adapt.

Werner's finishing has been woeful, no excuses for that, however yesterday there was space in behind and down the channels, and there was numerous occasions when Werner got in between defenders, on the last man, but the players on the ball just dont see it. 

We constantly played as if it was giroud up top. Fabregas or David Luiz would've been serving them up on a plate, but we just dont have that vision and passing quality in the team now. 

Maybe it is more of a chemistry thing, but either way, it needs work. I would even consider playing ziyech as one of the 8's so we can utilize his passing from deep, rather than having him just whip balls in. He played more as an 8 against us at the bridge, and was sensational. It would also allow us to have both pulisic and CHO keeping width. The trouble is who plays alongside him, It would have to be Kante and either Mount or Havertz, but defensively it could leave us exposed. Incidently the midfield 3 he played in at ajax had Van de beek, and Martinez, so maybe not too dissimilar to a kante + havertz/mount.