17 minutes ago, Zeta said:

 

Good thing we have that buyback eh?

Been hearing that part of why PSG are willing to offer Rudiger 400k plus a week AFTER tax is part of a charm offensive designed to try and get TT back.

Both him winning last season CL and Poch failing so epically as well as the draw in match 1 and the loss at Rennes.

Seems they want him back and a big wage alone won't make that happen, signing his chief guy is a step towards it.

7 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think our formation is not suited for our attacking players and as time goes on there is evidence for it. Yes last season we managed to win but this is why I said that our current tactic is getting figured out now and we don't seem to have a plan B.

We want to be champions but we can't win against our rivals. The 2 teams that have won the league in the most recent times are Man City and Liverpool and our main rival in the CL group is Juventus, we managed to take 1 point in 3 direct games against those rivals and that 1 point we gained after a header from a corner kick from Havertz so the only goal we scored against our biggest rivals wasn't even during open play. That's not good enough, we are the European champions.

Liverpool have played both us and City, in a formation that some, for whatever reason, want to see us play because somehow that will magically change the form of our attackers. They have better creators and attackers. And yet, were outplayed in both big games, one of which was against 10 men. 

We became European champions by playing a formation and style catering to our strengths, not our weaknesses. 

Every tactic gets figured out. It's not some mysterious conundrum.  Teams figured out Pep's Barca but could do little to stop them. And our chosen plan B so far seems to be the 352 - that needs time and fit personnel to develop. 

18 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Interesting how we lack intensity as soon as a good team comes along, just saying.

 Do you see any other top team changing their formation every other game or when things go bad in one game? 

We were ok against City last season and we will be ok again this season when we play them. 

15 hours ago, Gol15 said:

We want to be champions but we can't win against our rivals. The 2 teams that have won the league in the most recent times are Man City and Liverpool and our main rival in the CL group is Juventus, we managed to take 1 point in 3 direct games against those rivals and that 1 point we gained after a header from a corner kick from Havertz so the only goal we scored against our biggest rivals wasn't even during open play. That's not good enough, we are the European champions.

City have faced Tottenham, PSG, us and Liverpool and have won once.

Liverpool have faced us and City at Anfield and have won none.

So if we have a problem, our biggest rivals got the same one.

Apart from the City game, the league campaign has been pretty good. Stopping Liverpool get 3 points off us with a man short for 45 minutes to go is a great effort. Beat the rest as much as possible, not allowing the top 2-3 rivals taking points off you, and 9/10 you win the title. In the CL, so as long as beat the 2 teams we meant to beat, we will qualify and with a chance to get top spot at home against Juventus. Tuchel would have learnt a lot from the last 3 games, and he's already making changes to make things happen.

5 hours ago, mm24 said:

 Do you see any other top team changing their formation every other game or when things go bad in one game? 

We were ok against City last season and we will be ok again this season when we play them. 

Well of course not, but I believe that we have failed to create much against the top teams this season so far. Against Liverpool we did score a goal and that's it. If our tactic doesn't work we won't be able to do much in the CL against any good team and we will lose points against the Manchester teams this season, I think that we did play well against Liverpool but the red card prevented us to try and go for a win there, even so as the European champions we don't look like we're better than our rivals.

4 hours ago, Sindre said:

City have faced Tottenham, PSG, us and Liverpool and have won once.

Liverpool have faced us and City at Anfield and have won none.

So if we have a problem, our biggest rivals got the same one.

I see where you're going but in the end of the day Man City won against us, played a draw against Liverpool like us and lost against PSG. Not sure why are you having Spurs as a benchmark for anything they are not a top 4 team nor a direct rival for the title, if anything Man City slipped there. The only good result we have is the draw against Liverpool, Man City lost against a fully stacked PSG team, we lost against a weakened Juventus that didn't even have a striker. Thier start is similar to ours but I think that we should have the quality to win a big game against our direct rivals.

22 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I see where you're going but in the end of the day Man City won against us, played a draw against Liverpool like us and lost against PSG. Not sure why are you having Spurs as a benchmark for anything they are not a top 4 team nor a direct rival for the title, if anything Man City slipped there. The only good result we have is the draw against Liverpool, Man City lost against a fully stacked PSG team, we lost against a weakened Juventus that didn't even have a striker. Thier start is similar to ours but I think that we should have the quality to win a big game against our direct rivals.

Just seems you are overly critical of us while at the same time being apologetic of some of our rivals results. City also lost to Leicester in CS and couldn't beat Southampton at home.

Three points at Tottenham is never easy (as City realized) and we smashed them. Should be counted as a good result on all accounts.

 

12 minutes ago, Sindre said:

Just seems you are overly critical of us while at the same time being apologetic of some of our rivals results. City also lost to Leicester in CS and couldn't beat Southampton at home.

Three points at Tottenham is never easy (as City realized) and we smashed them. Should be counted as a good result on all accounts.

 

I think that our match vs Juventus and Man City showed that we might have a real problem with out current system. But it's just 2 games so hopefully I'm wrong there, if we win 8 out of the next 10 games I will be happy.

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

I think that our match vs Juventus and Man City showed that we might have a real problem with out current system. But it's just 2 games so hopefully I'm wrong there, if we win 8 out of the next 10 games I will be happy.

We don't really have a problem with our system. Both games are not apple to apple comparisons because the personnel differs. 

We lost because the players didn't perform. Slow passing, no penetration and lapses in concentration really. That's why we lost to nonsense goals. 

Juve adapted to us and City forced us back. We just lacked Mount's ability to drive forward into the final third and his link up play and Werner's speed+directness to open up space.  

Our front 3 of Lukaku, Mount and Werner seems more effective than the trio of Lukaku, Ziyech and Havertz. 

1 hour ago, Deino said:

We don't really have a problem with our system. Both games are not apple to apple comparisons because the personnel differs. 

We lost because the players didn't perform. Slow passing, no penetration and lapses in concentration really. That's why we lost to nonsense goals. 

Juve adapted to us and City forced us back. We just lacked Mount's ability to drive forward into the final third and his link up play and Werner's speed+directness to open up space.  

Our front 3 of Lukaku, Mount and Werner seems more effective than the trio of Lukaku, Ziyech and Havertz. 

How can you be so sure that it's just down to the player when in both games we failed to create a real clear-cut chance?

Against Man City we played with Werner and Lukaku up front and against Juventus we had Lukaku, Ziyech and Havertz, so different support cast for Lukaku but the same outcome. Looks to me that the big teams have learned how to play against us, they don't open up and as long as they keep their lines we struggle to create something.

But like I said, if we win the next 8/10 games I will be happy, meaning even if we don't win Man United/Juventus it's still good enough for me.

4 hours ago, Sindre said:

Three points at Tottenham is never easy (as City realized) and we smashed them. Should be counted as a good result on all accounts.

This is where any argument falls down. It’s not called Three Point Lane for nothing… 

Juve was the only game I really wasn't ok with. But those fixtures were all extremely short timed with little time inbetween and although some posters think that's an (laughable) excuse I do take that into account. They're all humans after all. City didn't get any clear cut chances as well and I'd even argue that despite all their possession we weren't that unlikely to create something really dangerous during the first half, 0-0 wasn't lucky on our part I'd say. And after all City really played a fantastic football and Pep made no mistakes this time so it's nothing outrageous to lose by a fine margin against them. Better Pep got it right this time than in the CL finale I'd say. Against Juve was a complete lacklustre affair on almost all levels but we showed up against Southampton with the correct answer performance and result wise so I don't see were that doom&gloom should come from.

We obviously need time to adapt our system to our new cornerstone Lukaku, that mutch is clear to me. Add to that some key players that need time to shift into the new season (Mount and Jorgi) and there is little to complain imho - especially since Trev and RLC came from nowhere and are seriously pushinh their way into the startin XI.

But sitting at the top of the league with the best goal difference tells me we're definitely on the right track - and that after quite some challenging fixtures.

On 06/10/2021 at 00:07, Gol15 said:

How can you be so sure that it's just down to the player when in both games we failed to create a real clear-cut chance?

Against Man City we played with Werner and Lukaku up front and against Juventus we had Lukaku, Ziyech and Havertz, so different support cast for Lukaku but the same outcome. Looks to me that the big teams have learned how to play against us, they don't open up and as long as they keep their lines we struggle to create something.

But like I said, if we win the next 8/10 games I will be happy, meaning even if we don't win Man United/Juventus it's still good enough for me.

I told you this last season, coaches in the Prem will eventually have strategies against us but it's not really a formation issue when the players don't perform. 

Against City and Juventus, we were pathetically slow and toothless with 2 different formation and style of play. Against City, we didn't have a good link up between midfield and attack + Kante wasn't fully fit so we couldn't start counters because Kante barely won any balls or tackles.

Against Juve, all 3 of our forwards were ineffective because Lukaku has never properly beaten Juve's CB even in his Inter days, Ziyech is not a great dribbler so he won't always beat a man plus his passing nowadays is erratic and Havertz couldn't find spaces because Juve decided to park the bus. 

Kova barely tried a penetrating run, Jorginho can't dribble past opponents and both barely succeeded in finding that Iniesta/Xavi pass that destroys defences.

There's a reason why against Soton we could play way better in the 2nd half when Mount came on because Mount presses, links play, moves around (drop deep or go wide) in an effective manner, tries a shot from range and can dribble past people when he did came on. The energy and intensity Mount brings is the clear difference. 

Our team's true identity is not simply possession-based football, it's high intensity possession-based football. 

 

1 hour ago, Deino said:

I told you this last season, coaches in the Prem will eventually have strategies against us but it's not really a formation issue when the players don't perform. 

Against City and Juventus, we were pathetically slow and toothless with 2 different formation and style of play. Against City, we didn't have a good link up between midfield and attack + Kante wasn't fully fit so we couldn't start counters because Kante barely won any balls or tackles.

Against Juve, all 3 of our forwards were ineffective because Lukaku has never properly beaten Juve's CB even in his Inter days, Ziyech is not a great dribbler so he won't always beat a man plus his passing nowadays is erratic and Havertz couldn't find spaces because Juve decided to park the bus. 

Kova barely tried a penetrating run, Jorginho can't dribble past opponents and both barely succeeded in finding that Iniesta/Xavi pass that destroys defences.

There's a reason why against Soton we could play way better in the 2nd half when Mount came on because Mount presses, links play, moves around (drop deep or go wide) in an effective manner, tries a shot from range and can dribble past people when he did came on. The energy and intensity Mount brings is the clear difference. 

Our team's true identity is not simply possession-based football, it's high intensity possession-based football. 

 

I agree, though I will say that till the red card I wasn't really sure where the game was going so no doubt that having a player more made our job very easy.

I'm sure that we will continue playing like this, I'm hoping that as the season goes that Lukaku will find a good partnership with Werner, Havertz and Mount.

On 06/10/2021 at 10:29, weetee said:

Juve was the only game I really wasn't ok with. But those fixtures were all extremely short timed with little time inbetween and although some posters think that's an (laughable) excuse I do take that into account. They're all humans after all. City didn't get any clear cut chances as well and I'd even argue that despite all their possession we weren't that unlikely to create something really dangerous during the first half, 0-0 wasn't lucky on our part I'd say. And after all City really played a fantastic football and Pep made no mistakes this time so it's nothing outrageous to lose by a fine margin against them. Better Pep got it right this time than in the CL finale I'd say. Against Juve was a complete lacklustre affair on almost all levels but we showed up against Southampton with the correct answer performance and result wise so I don't see were that doom&gloom should come from.

I don't agree with that, Edou made two fantastic saves from Grealish and Thiago cleared off the line. That second half was very one sided.

Edited October 7, 20214 yr by Argo

3 hours ago, Argo said:

I don't agree with that, Edou made two fantastic saves from Grealish and Thiago cleared off the line. That second half was very one sided.

But that was after their lead, right? That game wasn‘t good, all I‘m saying was that until they scored a rather flukey goal nonclear cut chances on both sides and City played perfectly. We could have done more/differently ofc but I for me the real downer was the Juve game.

 

Quite an interesting set of stats, still early days and the football hasn't been perfect far from it at times but, TT knows football and how to win.

we haven't really conceded a goal from open play either (domestically), the Jesus one could be considered open play but it came about from a set piece. The Chiesa goal is arguably the only time when the defence was breached and we conceded as a result. When i'm watching the game i don't feel like we are going to concede. It feels quite peaceful once we are 1-0 up

While we continue to do well it would be a lie to say I am not worried about our attacking phase… for us to win the league and be more consistent we need to have more solutions and an extra gear.. 

if this means a 4 at the back from time to time wouldn’t mind it.

 

On 07/10/2021 at 23:36, Deino said:

I told you this last season, coaches in the Prem will eventually have strategies against us but it's not really a formation issue when the players don't perform. 

Against City and Juventus, we were pathetically slow and toothless with 2 different formation and style of play. Against City, we didn't have a good link up between midfield and attack + Kante wasn't fully fit so we couldn't start counters because Kante barely won any balls or tackles.

Against Juve, all 3 of our forwards were ineffective because Lukaku has never properly beaten Juve's CB even in his Inter days, Ziyech is not a great dribbler so he won't always beat a man plus his passing nowadays is erratic and Havertz couldn't find spaces because Juve decided to park the bus. 

Kova barely tried a penetrating run, Jorginho can't dribble past opponents and both barely succeeded in finding that Iniesta/Xavi pass that destroys defences.

There's a reason why against Soton we could play way better in the 2nd half when Mount came on because Mount presses, links play, moves around (drop deep or go wide) in an effective manner, tries a shot from range and can dribble past people when he did came on. The energy and intensity Mount brings is the clear difference. 

Our team's true identity is not simply possession-based football, it's high intensity possession-based football. 

 

The story of our team offensively since last year is the same, without Mount we struggle to feed our forward. This has been proven again and again. It does not take a genius to understand why. Ziyech has been sh*t, Jorginho does not help with getting the ball forward at all, Kovacic and Kante are the only two who can help Mount. Kova is just inconsistent and Kante has been injured. 

Against soton Ruben and suddenly our offense looked better. 

 

On 10/10/2021 at 19:24, Jangz said:

While we continue to do well it would be a lie to say I am not worried about our attacking phase… for us to win the league and be more consistent we need to have more solutions and an extra gear.. 

if this means a 4 at the back from time to time wouldn’t mind it.

 

The four at the back need to watch their actions more closely. And as for the attack - yes, I agree with you, there is a lack of solutions.

Having seen his goal for Canada against Panama, I am left wondering how much better we would be had we signed Alfonso Davies and beaten PSG to Hakimi. Man would that be a thing of beauty seeing them bomb down the wings in the same side.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Having seen his goal for Canada against Panama, I am left wondering how much better we would be had we signed Alfonso Davies and beaten PSG to Hakimi. Man would that be a thing of beauty seeing them bomb down the wings in the same side.

I am not sure talking what if with players who will cost 80m+ is a good idea.