TT looked quite stressed/frustrated at times today.  Intl break comes at a good time for all - he needs a little break also.  Great win and so much room for improvement with this team.

Thomas Tuchel on Kai Havertz and Hakim Ziyech:

"We always try to do the best but at some point, after a lot of chances, we have to admit Kai and Hakim are not in their best shape. It's maybe not even their fault. They struggle to be decisive."
 

I’m glad Tuchel is digging out Havertz and Ziyech. They have been poor this season and offered very little. 

53 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Thomas Tuchel on Kai Havertz and Hakim Ziyech:

"We always try to do the best but at some point, after a lot of chances, we have to admit Kai and Hakim are not in their best shape. It's maybe not even their fault. They struggle to be decisive."
 

I’m glad Tuchel is digging out Havertz and Ziyech. They have been poor this season and offered very little. 

Yeah I think whatever criticisms one can have about TT, hard to argue that he’s not fair or has any sort of agenda / favourites. Havertz and Ziyech don’t deliver. So they get dropped and TT offers constructive criticism. RLC gets a chance, takes it, gets selected… how it should be. 

37 minutes ago, Dean said:

Yeah I think whatever criticisms one can have about TT, hard to argue that he’s not fair or has any sort of agenda / favourites. Havertz and Ziyech don’t deliver. So they get dropped and TT offers constructive criticism. RLC gets a chance, takes it, gets selected… how it should be. 

100% same with Chalobah, did well out on loan, in pre season and got rewarded.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/58667868

After match interview with Thomas. I do like his analysis, always honest and detailed. I think this sets him above other coaches.

Picked players by form, and rightly awarded. We should have won the game via half time, a ridiculous VAR call and a slip up let them back into the game, however we were clearly the better side and proved it beyond doubt. I think he learnt something in the past 7 days, we got a deep team and need the change and rotation to counter different threats, there's no single formula that will last the whole season.

6 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

TT looked quite stressed/frustrated at times today.  Intl break comes at a good time for all - he needs a little break also.  Great win and so much room for improvement with this team.

Why should he not be? The farce of the disallowed goal, Werner, Chilwell and CHO all wasting one on one's.

4 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Why should he not be? The farce of the disallowed goal, Werner, Chilwell and CHO all wasting one on one's.

Oh I don’t disagree, every right to be. Just a couple of losses and there was some tension there. Just saying a break is good for TT also, and the energy he brings. 

Does our current roster swing things in favour of trying 4-3-3 at least in some games? @Gol15. With RLC and Barkley back in contention, it seems to make sense. And the set-up, as far as I understand this stuff, would be two “8”s - RLC, Kova, Barkley in contention there - and a CDM instead of “double 6”. Ok, we lose some defensive strength but we bolster the midfield by using Kante (obvs) as CDM/ spoiler. E.g.

Mendy

Azpi  Christensen Rudiger Chilwell

RLC Kante Kova 

Mount Lukaku Werner

select away according to your bias, and by all means Silva, Chalobah, James are worthy contenders, but I suppose no place for Alonso in this system, while Jorginho’s talents may not be best suited to it? Barkley probably not doing enough to start yet but a good option off the bench for Kova (as we all hanker for those days so much) or RLC. Front 3 selects itself imo until proven otherwise. I thought Werner gave us a lot and Mount is Mount. 
 

Might TT try something like this? He does seem quite committed to back 3.

5 minutes ago, Dean said:

Might TT try something like this? He does seem quite committed to back 3.

I think it has to be going drastically wrong for TT to move from the back three. I don’t think we’ve had a single minute of football under him without one. 

10 minutes ago, Munkworth said:

I think it has to be going drastically wrong for TT to move from the back three. I don’t think we’ve had a single minute of football under him without one. 

Good point. Am just thinking aloud how to accommodate the midfielders. But did he not use back 4 at previous clubs? Has his preference for a back 3 at Chelsea not been dictated to an extent by the available personnel?

1 minute ago, Dean said:

Good point. Am just thinking aloud how to accommodate the midfielders. But did he not use back 4 at previous clubs? Has his preference for a back 3 at Chelsea not been dictated to an extent by the available personnel?

50 minutes ago, Dean said:

Good point. Am just thinking aloud how to accommodate the midfielders. But did he not use back 4 at previous clubs? Has his preference for a back 3 at Chelsea not been dictated to an extent by the available personnel?

He mostly played with a b4 at Dortmund and Paris. Switched to a b3/5 in some singular matches against Bayern I recall and at times during the end at Paris when he had to compensate for his „lazy“ super-strikers. Mainz I don‘t know, don‘t think so tho.

Personally i think a back 3 suits our squad if it starts to fail change it until then stick with what's working for us.

39 minutes ago, Cone said:

Personally i think a back 3 suits our squad if it starts to fail change it until then stick with what's working for us.

It does - a few people were calling for Lamps to make the switch towards the end of his time here.

4 hours ago, Dean said:

Does our current roster swing things in favour of trying 4-3-3 at least in some games? @Gol15. With RLC and Barkley back in contention, it seems to make sense. And the set-up, as far as I understand this stuff, would be two “8”s - RLC, Kova, Barkley in contention there - and a CDM instead of “double 6”. Ok, we lose some defensive strength but we bolster the midfield by using Kante (obvs) as CDM/ spoiler. E.g.

Mendy

Azpi  Christensen Rudiger Chilwell

RLC Kante Kova 

Mount Lukaku Werner

select away according to your bias, and by all means Silva, Chalobah, James are worthy contenders, but I suppose no place for Alonso in this system, while Jorginho’s talents may not be best suited to it? Barkley probably not doing enough to start yet but a good option off the bench for Kova (as we all hanker for those days so much) or RLC. Front 3 selects itself imo until proven otherwise. I thought Werner gave us a lot and Mount is Mount. 
 

Might TT try something like this? He does seem quite committed to back 3.

I think Lampard tried that, it didn't work out.

I would like to see a 4-2-3-1 instead:

               Jorginho/RLC -  Kovacic/Kante

Pulisic/Ziyech -  Havertz/Barkley -  Mount/CHO

                              Lukaku/Werner

Or with a more counter-attacking mindset 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1:

     Pulisic - Kante - Jorginho - Mount

                 Lukaku - Werner
                           OR
                       Havertz
                       Lukaku

I think I read a suggestion about a diamond formation too:

                            Jorginho

            Kante/RLC           Kovacic/Barkley

                      Havertz/Mount

                 Lukaku         Werner

4 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

I think I read a suggestion about a diamond formation too:

                            Jorginho

            Kante/RLC           Kovacic/Barkley

                      Havertz/Mount

                 Lukaku         Werner

The diamond formation is one of the worst formations in modern football IMHO.
If the opponent is attacking over the wings then your wingback has often to defend alone against two attackers.
Especially with Alonso as left wingback this would be a suicidal tactic.
I dont like the diamond at all because the two wingbacks are too vulnerable in the defense.
At the same time the wingbacks have an extreme high workload because they have to support in the offense as well.
For instance, a player like CHO would not fit at all into this diamond formation.

12 minutes ago, TheGermanOne said:

The diamond formation is one of the worst formations in modern football IMHO.
If the opponent is attacking over the wings then your wingback has often to defend alone against two attackers.
Especially with Alonso as left wingback this would be a suicidal tactic.
I dont like the diamond at all because the two wingbacks are too vulnerable in the defense.
At the same time the wingbacks have an extreme high workload because they have to support in the offense as well.
For instance, a player like CHO would not fit at all into this diamond formation.

That is true, the full-backs would need to be very smart with their runs so it's risky and there is no space for a winger like Pulisic or CHO.

for me a 4-3-3 remains the most balanced formation.. especially if you have quality on the wings..

39 minutes ago, Jangz said:

for me a 4-3-3 remains the most balanced formation.. especially if you have quality on the wings..

Do you mean in general or do you think we could fit into that system?

6 hours ago, Cone said:

Personally i think a back 3 suits our squad if it starts to fail change it until then stick with what's working for us.

I would agree if we had specialist wing backs. Over a 38 game season I feel the lack of such will hurt us unless Alonso can give us another 16/17 lite season.

Given how poor all our wingers are currently I'm starting to think a diamond might work in the short term.

4 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think I read a suggestion about a diamond formation too:

                            Jorginho

            Kante/RLC           Kovacic/Barkley

                      Havertz/Mount

                 Lukaku         Werner

Personally think the diamond won't be seen in current football. Everyone is too fit and fast to not exploit the space if our fullbacks pushed forward. 

Our midfielders are not enough of a threat for us to be playing a 433 and our wingers are average at best for us to play 4231 or 442.

343 and it's variants suits us too much right now. 

53 minutes ago, Deino said:

Personally think the diamond won't be seen in current football. Everyone is too fit and fast to not exploit the space if our fullbacks pushed forward. 

Our midfielders are not enough of a threat for us to be playing a 433 and our wingers are average at best for us to play 4231 or 442.

343 and it's variants suits us too much right now. 

Agreed. Actually Dortmund played it this season at times and while they (= Haaland) scored a lot of goals it‘s shakey as hell and they also conceded tons. Not convinced  about  the diamond either.

Edited October 3, 20214 yr by weetee

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I think Lampard tried that, it didn't work out.

I would like to see a 4-2-3-1 instead:

               Jorginho/RLC -  Kovacic/Kante

Pulisic/Ziyech -  Havertz/Barkley -  Mount/CHO

                              Lukaku/Werner

Or with a more counter-attacking mindset 4-4-2 / 4-4-1-1:

     Pulisic - Kante - Jorginho - Mount

                 Lukaku - Werner
                           OR
                       Havertz
                       Lukaku

I think I read a suggestion about a diamond formation too:

                            Jorginho

            Kante/RLC           Kovacic/Barkley

                      Havertz/Mount

                 Lukaku         Werner

Lampard trying it and it not working doesn’t necessarily mean it can’t work now given several factors I probably don’t need to spell out. I guess the trouble is, though, if he does change the formation, it kind of HAS to succeed immediately. If he changes it and we lose, everyone will blame it on that and it will be straight back to the back 3. There will be zero tolerance there from the fans, the board. Unless of course the change were brought about by a poor run of form with 3 at the back… which none of us would want of course. 

Edited October 3, 20214 yr by Dean

Love the guy, he's like a less strange Jurgen Klopp