47 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

What is he supposed to do, not clear the ball? It was an unavoidable collision. Seeing it in full speed shows how ridiculous that decision is. Just because he made contact with Chilwell with his studs, it shouldn't mean it's a red card. It's like people don't understand natural body movements.

Were as I can fully see your point , just try kicking yourself now, whilst connecting with the leg, would you rake down the calf too as a flat foot? I think there was an intentional part too as well as the accidental contact.

30 minutes ago, dkw said:

It didn't end with him "Raking" him at all, his leg had to go somewhere when he's kicked through it.

No problem....

I will retract my earlier statement and replace it with the following, which you can also quote me with at a later date....

 every single accidental tackle that results in a players studs being dug halfway up another players leg, should be looked at as a red card. 

On record. 

8 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

It is irrelevant. You are not allowed to stud an opponent's leg at the knee. End of.

We are all only guessing at intent - personally I don't think he intended it, but again, intent is irrelevant if the ref thinks that the resulting collision was dangerous foul play.

It is all subjective, and if the ref thinks it was dangerous foul play, then the debate is over. 

Out of interest, are you saying that studs into the knee is a) allowed within the rules or b)  not dangerous?

You're disagreeing with the legend that is Gianfranco Zola!!

Anyone who has played the game know that if you kick a ball, and especially hard down the touchline, knows your leg and foot have to follow through somewhere. It was unlucky for the Spammers player that Chilwell  wnet in to challenge and half turned, so he caught that follow through. But there was no intent and it wasn't even a tackle so how the ref can come to the conclusion that's a red card offence is beyond me. Sure, it looks bad - especially in slow motion, but the game isn't played in slow motion! Never a red and I'll be surprised if any of the pundits on MOTD tonight think otherwise.

4 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

No problem....

I will retract my earlier statement and replace it with the following, which you can also quote me with at a later date....

 every single accidental tackle that results in a players studs being dug halfway up another players leg, should be looked at as a red card. 

On record. 

I can only think you've never kicked a ball in your life. 

Edited April 24, 20215 yr by dkw

ANY win against West Ham is a good win.  To beat the bastards when they’re among our rivals for a top four place, when David Moyes, rightly or wrongly (I say wrongly but then I would) livid at the team he manages being down to ten men, and to beat them on their own patch - looking back to a few horror stories, both on and off the pitch at Upton Park - just makes it all the sweeter.

Just now, Nibs said:

You're disagreeing with the legend that is Gianfranco Zola!!

Anyone who has played the game know that if you kick a ball, and especially hard down the touchline, knows your leg and foot have to follow through somewhere. It was unlucky for the Spammers player that Chilwell  wnet in to challenge and half turned, so he caught that follow through. But there was no intent and it wasn't even a tackle so how the ref can come to the conclusion that's a red card offence is beyond me. Sure, it looks bad - especially in slow motion, but the game isn't played in slow motion! Never a red and I'll be surprised if any of the pundits on MOTD tonight think otherwise.

Zola... pfft - what does that little magical genius know!?

Joking aside, I have never said it was intentional. I am saying that intent is irrelevant if the referee deems the resulting collision dangerous play. 
 

Personally, I am of the view that any time studs are dug high into an opponent's leg, the ref would be justified to say it was dangerous foul play. 

2 minutes ago, dkw said:

I can only think you've never kicked a ball on your life. 

If I have or have not, it is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that the rules do not permit a player to dig his studs into a players knee. Whether that is as the result of a karate kick, an intentional foul or an accidental collision. 
 

Massive massive win for us that. I believe we still got Man City, Arsenal and Leicester City left, so this is by no means done and dusted. I think we will have enough now to fend off Spurs and below. Liverpool are a bit hit and miss so aslong as they continue to lose points and hopefully lose to man utd  we should take them. West Ham might be a worry because apparently they have 5 easy games..but atleast their goal difference is very inferior. But this win has really put us in the driving seat, and hopefully we can overtake leicester and let them get drawn in instead of us.

1 minute ago, nonotnowjim said:

If I have or have not, it is irrelevant.

What is relevant is that the rules do not permit a player to dig his studs into a players knee. Whether that is as the result of a karate kick, an intentional foul or an accidental collision. 
 

Wrong.

Just now, dkw said:

Wrong.

The referee says otherwise. Look forward to you posting the rule that says digging studs into an opponent's leg is allowed.... 

33 minutes ago, dkw said:

Go watch it again, there's not a striker on earth could have scored that.

I'll bite ...

What I want to know is what did Moyes say to Dave when he left the pitch that got him so riled up? And definitely a red card...foot in such an unnatural position in the end of the follow through...clearly trying to get a cheap stamp on the player...guess that the pikie way?

Edited April 24, 20215 yr by doctorblue

3 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

The referee says otherwise. Look forward to you posting the rule that says digging studs into an opponent's leg is allowed.... 

So you are saying accidents are not allowed in football at all?

41 minutes ago, Malta Blue said:

I own this book and I can say categorically say that there is not any kittens called socks in it

And I'm not lying

Honest

He’s had enough of your lies...

11 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

What I want to know is what did Moyes say to Dave when he left the pitch that got him so riled up? And definitely a red card...foot in such an unnatural position in the end of the follow through...clearly trying to get a cheap stamp on the player...guess that the pikie way?

I'd say he complained about Azpi time wasting while exchanging the armband with Jorginho... It's the only reason I could think of. But I also really wanna know what exactly was said to him.

17 minutes ago, doctorblue said:

What I want to know is what did Moyes say to Dave when he left the pitch that got him so riled up? And definitely a red card...foot in such an unnatural position in the end of the follow through...clearly trying to get a cheap stamp on the player...guess that the pikie way?

I bet Dave didn't understand a word the daft Jock said ha ha...

18 minutes ago, Sexyfootball said:

I'll bite ...

Ok ok, so that photo of you proves you could have....

Huge win. Well done lads. 

I’m not worried about the run in and playing teams around us; Tuchel wins those games. If we were playing at the bottoms five teams then I’d be expecting a maximum of five points. 

31 minutes ago, dkw said:

So you are saying accidents are not allowed in football at all?

Nope - I have not said anything that looks remotely like "accidents are not allowed in football". 

I am saying, very clearly, that if the action of a player, accidental or otherwise, endangers the safety of an opponent and results in studs being planted high into a players leg, then the referee is perfectly justified in making a decision that the action constitutes serious foul play.

For what it's worth, the rules classify "playing in a dangerous manner" as, and I quote "playing in a dangerous manner is ANY action that, while trying to play the ball, threatens injury to someone (including the player the self"

Note that the rules say nothing about intent. 
 

So, again, to make very clear, I fully accept that of course accidents can happen - but if the accident results in an action that threatens injury to someone (eg - studs halfway up an opponents leg), then a red card, although perhaps unlucky, is absolutely justified. Again - feel free to quote me on that anytime.

Edited April 24, 20215 yr by nonotnowjim

1 hour ago, Munkworth said:

@Valerie blue sock magic strikes again, they’ve even got Timo scoring n

Never in doubt: blue socks rule!

Always a cause for celebration doing the bubble over that lot.  Plus it really means something this season, won’t comment on the wastefulness in front of their goal. 😉

Tally Ho let’s go hunting!

 

Seems to be a lot of debate on red card decision. For me it was dangerous and intentional. Player knew exactly what he was doing and was leaving a bit on it to hurt Chilwell. Professional footballers have been doing it and getting away with it for years. I didn’t play at pro level but played loads of ex pros and many knew how to leave that bit on at the end of a tackle or clearance and 99 times out of 100 got away with it. Now with var more will be caught out. 
I think the ref was brave in his decision. 

I think it’s a bit like the tackle on Cech. I think Hunt left a bit on it to collide with cech. I don’t believe he meant to injure Cech to the extent he did. 
 

I not saying these players are intending to injure the opponent, just roughing them up a bit and make them think of the next challenge.

On the Tammy miss looks like the pace of the cross caught him out though we all know heading is not his strength.

Werner had a late chance he should have done better and Pulisic an earlier one he should have buried.

In saying all this the result was more important after that 0-0 draw with Brighton and Moyes reaction more or less shows how important they saw it too.

Not over and dusted by any means but we are back in the fight for sure.

There’s been criticism for VAR on the red card but for me, it’s done it’s job perfect. It reviewed the tackle and asked the ref to make a SUBJECTIVE decision. The ref, no VAR decided it was a red. The ref actually missed the tackle so credit to VAR for spotting it. 
 

Yes it was soft but the player could have pulled out and not gone studs in.