13 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

Kovacic wasn't a regular starter for Real Madrid either when we initially bought him in on loan. 

Saul isn't even being used as a midfielder by AM so far in 2020. The history of kidney problems is a concern. Tchouameni is much younger, athletic and better defensive midfielder. That is critically important given Kante's injury history. 

5 hours ago, TheGreatestGame said:

The last thing that Chelsea needs is another left footed WB. They just loaned out Emerson and Chilwell can't get any playing time with Alonso getting the bulk of the playing time. 

I understand that you're totally against him coming to Chelsea but at least get your facts right. He's not a LWB, he's been played there by Simeone because he thinks he is a very versatile player. This is one of the reasons why he wants to leave Atletico. He is a midfielder, and was a top class midfielder not that long ago, that wants to play in that position.

7 hours ago, TheGreatestGame said:

Saul isn't even being used as a midfielder by AM so far in 2020. The history of kidney problems is a concern. Tchouameni is much younger, athletic and better defensive midfielder. That is critically important given Kante's injury history. 

Tchouameni has a worse record than Bakayoko at the same stage we signed them. He may well develop to be a top class player but he needs to go elsewhere first before a top club like Chelsea. 

Saul is a marriage of convenience with little downside if it doesn't work out - in fact, it's almost better if it doesn't as he wouldn't block the returning Gilmour or Gallagher next season.

4 minutes ago, SydneyChelsea said:

Tchouameni has a worse record than Bakayoko at the same stage we signed them. He may well develop to be a top class player but he needs to go elsewhere first before a top club like Chelsea. 

Saul is a marriage of convenience with little downside if it doesn't work out - in fact, it's almost better if it doesn't as he wouldn't block the returning Gilmour or Gallagher next season.

Not sure how you mention Tchouameni v bakyoko record but I could agree he needs another season or two and that a Ilan for Saul is sensible outcome, providing cover and allowing Kounde to proceed. TBH I haven’t seen that much of Tchouameni but I do recall watching Bakyoko for Monaco the season they made the cl semi and we bought him. He looked slow and not up to chelsea standard and I was surprised Conte wanted him. 

On a 12 month loan while we assess options like Rice, Bellingham, Tchouameni etc. Sounds like an opportunity we cant miss tbh. 

17 minutes ago, ozboy said:

Not sure how you mention Tchouameni v bakyoko record but I could agree he needs another season or two and that a Ilan for Saul is sensible outcome, providing cover and allowing Kounde to proceed. TBH I haven’t seen that much of Tchouameni but I do recall watching Bakyoko for Monaco the season they made the cl semi and we bought him. He looked slow and not up to chelsea standard and I was surprised Conte wanted him. 

Only in the sense that we should be wary of signing player based on a single breakout half-season in the French league. Bakayoko at least played a part in Monaco's success for a few years. In terms of raw talent Tchouameni is quick, he's gritty and he's a good passer, but I don't think he's going to develop to be the player a top club needs him to be if he's only getting 20 minutes here and there off the bench.

It's crazy that he's available for loan. Iirc he signed a lifetime contract or something with Atleti. 

On 23/08/2021 at 17:37, TheGreatestGame said:

Tchouameni and Camacinga are far superior midfileders. Either one could be acquired for approximately 35 million Euros. Get it done, Marina. 

These two need to be tested in the Prem first. Yves Bissouma or Ndidi would be the one I go for.

I think the loan deal makes sense for all involved here.  If he does well we would have that option to buy but if not we can look at other targets.  It's going to be a long season so we'll need him at various stages and a change of scenery could turn his form around.  Little downside to this deal imo.

Seems like the board know what they're doing, if we sign him and Koundé I think we would have had the best transfer window aside from psg. Lukaku, Kounde and Saul are all great additions to an already strong squad.

Don't know too much about him, from what I've seen he's a good all around CM who at one period was regarded as one of the best young players in Spain.

This could be very similar to the Kova situation where we acquire a player of potential world class quality who wants more game time to establish himself as a regular at a top tier club.

The added benefit that he's left footed is great since our other 3 CM are all right footed. Even if he ends up not being quite on the same level as Kova, Jorgeh and Ngolo he's surely an upgrade as our 4th CM than anyone we currently have.

Mount imo as great as he is, works better as a 3rd midfielder or forward in our system rather than operating in a pivot.

I think the other thing is that the club would naturally be very interested in bringing both Declan Rice and Jude Bellingham to the club. Bellingham is an incredible talent who has the skillset to be one of the best midfielders in the world in 3-4 years time. Saul's a convenient choice to plug the gap for this season.

https://www.90min.com/posts/chelsea-transfer-news-saul-niguez-loan-agreed-atletico-madrid

Sounds like the deal is done guys, only thing is whether it's an option to buy or if its mandatory. Realistically I think Marina will finesse this to make the deal go in our favour.

The only way it should be obligation to buy is if he hits some very high-bar targets

35 minutes ago, Adamrb said:

The only way it should be obligation to buy is if he hits some very high-bar targets

Might be quite hard to define those for a CM. I want our CMs to become more attacking, but I don't really care how many goals and assists they collect. Didn't Kovacic display exactly what we want to see for the first goal against Arsenal? He didn't get any contribution for that

On 25/08/2021 at 03:26, RMH said:

I understand that you're totally against him coming to Chelsea but at least get your facts right. He's not a LWB, he's been played there by Simeone because he thinks he is a very versatile player. This is one of the reasons why he wants to leave Atletico. He is a midfielder, and was a top class midfielder not that long ago, that wants to play in that position.

Saul is left footed and has played two full games at wing back. Simeone has judged that he is better suited there than midfield. Yes, at one time Saul was playing very well at midfield however he suffered a kidney injury and he appears to lack confidence right now. He is no longer a top midfielder and he may not be suited to the physical play in the PL. 

1 hour ago, TheGreatestGame said:

Saul is left footed and has played two full games at wing back. Simeone has judged that he is better suited there than midfield. Yes, at one time Saul was playing very well at midfield however he suffered a kidney injury and he appears to lack confidence right now. He is no longer a top midfielder and he may not be suited to the physical play in the PL. 

This is what Simeone said about Saul in a recent interview:

Quote

Speaking to Marca, Simeone said: “You know better than anyone what Saul has asked and looked for. We have known him for eight years. He has shared a lot of time with us.

“What empowered him to be what he was is his ability to play in different places, and when his level dropped, the same thing was used against him.

“But this is not the case, this does not go against him. They are (just) moments. After so much time, players need air and after so many years, the last season was more difficult for him.”

"Last season he (Saul) spoke with the club, with us about his needs and what he spoke about was the option of having a position on the pitch where he feels more important.

"And I consider that Saul became Saul by playing everywhere, but he or many of those around him see it as something negative. 

"He is very important for Atletico because he can play as a full-back, right-wing, midfielder. He gives us a lot of options to be able to count on him. He is a player who, in that version and playing how the coach needs him to, performs very well."

 

 

4 hours ago, TheGreatestGame said:

Saul is left footed and has played two full games at wing back. Simeone has judged that he is better suited there than midfield. Yes, at one time Saul was playing very well at midfield however he suffered a kidney injury and he appears to lack confidence right now. He is no longer a top midfielder and he may not be suited to the physical play in the PL. 

The fact that Tuchel plays CHO and Pulisic as wingbacks doesn’t make them wingbacks. The same here, Ñíguez is a midfielder and probably more an attacking threat than what we have available at the moment. He was one of the best and yes, he got his kidney broken during a game and had some intervention in his kidney. The fact that Simeone plays him as a LWB is not because he’s dropped level since but because he needs cover there and Saul can provide it with some quality (he got an assist in one of the two games). If we’d kept Gilmour, we wouldn’t need a midfielder. As things stand, for a reasonable price, a loan makes total sense to get him. If it works out, like Kova did, great. If it doesn’t work out, back to Atleti he goes next season. The other two midfielders being talked about are neither PL proven so they are as risky, and would probably compete more with Gilmour for a place in midfield. I wouldn’t be against any of the named midfielders, we need cover, and Saul is probably as good an option.

He’s on £300k per week. Ridiculous wages. Matt Law was saying that if we sign him on loan, it will be a an expensive loan with the loan fee and wages. A lot of money for a 4th choice. 

7 hours ago, TheGreatestGame said:

Saul is left footed and has played two full games at wing back. Simeone has judged that he is better suited there than midfield. Yes, at one time Saul was playing very well at midfield however he suffered a kidney injury and he appears to lack confidence right now. He is no longer a top midfielder and he may not be suited to the physical play in the PL. 

Jorginho just won player of the year playing for a PL team. Null and void argument.

We do need cover. There are very very few midfielders who would start in front of Jorginho, Kante, kova the way the team is set up now. Saul is probably a good 4th choice who can immediately compete to be one of the three playing regularly.  Otherwise I see no harm in a younger one. Gilmour still has a lot to prove. 

2 hours ago, ozboy said:

We do need cover. There are very very few midfielders who would start in front of Jorginho, Kante, kova the way the team is set up now. Saul is probably a good 4th choice who can immediately compete to be one of the three playing regularly.  Otherwise I see no harm in a younger one. Gilmour still has a lot to prove. 

Does he have more to prove than Tchouameni or Camvinga? I don't think so. They've been playing in the French league, which isn't even a top 5 league anymore while Billy has been picking up MOTM awards in the CL and against Liverpool etc.

30 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Does he have more to prove than Tchouameni or Camvinga? I don't think so. They've been playing in the French league, which isn't even a top 5 league anymore while Billy has been picking up MOTM awards in the CL and against Liverpool etc.

He played in 5 league games last season for 259 minutes. This season he has played 180 minutes on two league games where his team got thrashed both times. I reckon he’s still got a bit to prove, not withstanding he’s looked good at times for Chelsea. We’ve seen many times players who look ok in the chelsea team struggle to get a regular gig at a lesser team. I like what I’ve seen of Gilmour and think he might make the grade but I think he’s got a lot to prove just yet. Not saying Canavinga or Tchouameni or soumare are any better., but they have more minutes. 

I came across this YouTube video:  "What the hell is happening to Saul Niguez?"

It is four months old, so posted before the current speculation, and discusses his rise and fall.

Losing possession 26 times and conceding a penalty in one game last season doesn't sound good. 

Edited August 27, 20214 yr by Taipan

7 hours ago, JM7 said:

He’s on £300k per week. Ridiculous wages. Matt Law was saying that if we sign him on loan, it will be a an expensive loan with the loan fee and wages. A lot of money for a 4th choice. 

Way too expensive. Honestly the whole missing a kidney thing does not sound good. We should avoid and he should probably look at retiring.

9 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Way too expensive. Honestly the whole missing a kidney thing does not sound good. We should avoid and he should probably look at retiring.

 

Agreed. Seems like wasted money and a huge risk. 

Bring back Barkley if you need reinforcement in the midfield.