Painful.

With no exaggeration, this was one of our worst performances in recent years. Absolutely without a single bright spot in the team tonight. Juve were bang average apart from some good bits of defending late in the 2nd half.

What worries me now is the squad depth. How is it possible that without Kante, Mount and James we look so poor? Their replacements were awful for the second game in a row. Does Tuchel know his best 11 right now? Why is Barkley still a Chelsea player? Why are Werner and Saul benched in these circumstances? Lots of questions to analyze.

There were two major problems I noticed in the first half.

1. The vast majority of our attacks went through left side of the pitch. We certainly lacked pace there with Ziyech who played another game in which he was 'invisible'. Not to mention Alonso who had a shocker tonight. Some really bad mistakes from him and also a silly yellow card.

2. Kovacic - Jorginho pivot. First it was Jorginho with misplacing what should have been simple passes. And then *those* two cheaply given away balls by Kovacic which could have easily been two goals. They were not comfortable on the ball, but they had to be, because Juve were pushed back deeply. 

As for the second half, the goal we conceded was terrible defending from everyone involved. Azpi lost that duel too easily and then there was probably a lack of communication between Silva and Jorginho. Later it was all about trying to find Lukaku, sideways passing and pointless crossing into the box, which reminded me of certain games under Lampard. We never really looked like scoring. 

And now maybe the most important thing. Do you remember when was the last time we managed to turn a game around? It seems like whenever we concede first it is game over for us. We will have to work hard to change that mentality somehow.

Shoutout to CHO who was the only one that actually tried to do something in attack. As for the rest, I prefer not to comment this shambolic display. Let's just say Havertz was by far the worst player on the pitch.

Southampton is a must win. Game of the season so far because the pressure is mounting on this team. Hopefully we can win and then it is the international break and plenty of time for Thomas to fix this. I believe he certainly knows what he has to do.

It is just a minor crisis. Keep the faith. 🔵

Edited September 29, 20214 yr by wizardous

13 minutes ago, loz said:

Utterly pointless blaming Lukaku for tonight. He was offered nothing bar that late chance. Havertz, Kovacic, Jorginho and Ziyech were pedestrian and turgid and there was bugger all quality from the wing backs. 

It's hard to recall another performance where we played utterly into the hands of the opposition. Juventus probably sat in the dressing room at half time delighted at how we were passing the ball around in front of a back line that could keep us out for 8 weeks due to the total lack of creativity we had. 

This.The problem we have is quality creative players in midfield.People who think this a blip should worry.Thomas should be burning the midnight oil before the game at the weekend,to find a solution to our dreadful slow attacking play.Let's face it we are easy to defend against without Mount,Kante and even Reece.

If TT keeps playing Havertz,Ziyech,Alonso and Jorginho in the same system,be prepared for turgid football and more defeats until we have a fully fit team.We have shown we don't have the strength in depth  we thought we had.

Lulu is feeding on scraps - we know he is not the most gifted of players,but give him enough chances and you will get a good return imo.Thomas needs a bit of lateral thinking,and I would start with benching Havertz,Alonso and Ziyech - start with CHO, Chilly and RLC - it's easy they can do no worse.

 

The bad habit are fast returning, how quickly things could change in a week. Passing is slow, nobody is making runs, lapse of concentration, and not able to finish clear cut chances. If Juventus was half decent, would have put us away by 60 minutes. The fact they were so poor in their own rights made it really angry for us. We just had no idea how to create chances, it's ironic last season we struggle to score but no problem to create, now we couldn;t even create until 3-4 changes. Changes must be made this weekend, we are playing way too safe like we are holding on for a 1:0.

3 minutes ago, jt61 said:

This.The problem we have is quality creative players in midfield.People who think this a blip should worry.Thomas should be burning the midnight oil before the game at the weekend,to find a solution to our dreadful slow attacking play.Let's face it we are easy to defend against without Mount,Kante and even Reece.

If TT keeps playing Havertz,Ziyech,Alonso and Jorginho in the same system,be prepared for turgid football and more defeats until we have a fully fit team.We have shown we don't have the strength in depth  we thought we had.

Lulu is feeding on scraps - we know he is not the most gifted of players,but give him enough chances and you will get a good return imo.Thomas needs a bit of lateral thinking,and I would start with benching Havertz,Alonso and Ziyech - start with CHO, Chilly and RLC - it's easy they can do no worse.

 

Oh, I forgot Timo should play more often - at least he tries.

Ziyech and Havertz are looking more and more like a couple of expensive duds, but I'm stunned at the lethargy and lack of attacking intent all over the park to be honest.

Lukaku must be wishing he'd stayed at Inter Milan.

Has TT given an interview on this game yet ? I hope he's seeing what we are all seeing and will actually try something different for Southampton. 

 

I love that everyone pointed out that Lukaku is the problem as if we were this offensive juggernaut last year. 

We were awful offensively last year and furthermore without Mount we always looks like s&$#. Mount was the key on how we feed our forward, that is why Ziyech was selected , he was supposed to play Mount role but he has been absolutely horrendous, Tuchel need  stop playing him and play cho. 

In term of jogavic, it is what it is. 

I like Alonso but Tuchel need to stop playing azpi + alonso wb combination, they are simply too slow

 

15 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

it's ironic last season we struggle to score but no problem to create, 

Are you talking about city or Chelsea? 

f**king awful and still haven't got anyone that can shoot from more than 6 yards out...this tippy tappy sh*t prancing and passing around the 18 yard line has to STOP!!! 

After tonight I have this sinking feeling that I have had under every single manager (even the successful ones)that have sat in the dugout  in Stamford bridge.This is probably an overreaction,but i really hope Thomas will change things up soon.He is playing with a bad hand at the moment and I have faith in him - but Thomas, don't let lazy talentless players bring you down,as fans we know who they are I hope you do.Better to play players who work their nuts off than players who cost a fortune and are playing on reputation alone.

1 hour ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

This just isn't accurate and seems like a narrative that the people who don't want Lukaku are building. The team has been doing all that and more in previous matches that we have won. Just because our attacking players haven't performed well in the last few games, that doesn't mean Lukaku is the cause.

We had a flawless big game record last season under TT and Kai was fantastic at false 9 in the majority of big games he played. Him, Mount and Werner's general contributions and elite pressing meant we could compete toe to toe against any team in Europe (hence ummmm winning the UCL). Their fluidity and interchanging caused the likes of City and Real all sorts of problems.

What is so outragoues about saying he has to earn his spot in the big games given we have/had such a successful formula in them? We didn't have such a successful formula in the lesser games and (so far) he looks like he's helping to fix that, great no issues with him starting those. If I'm missing something then feel free to enlighten me but what has he shown in the biggest games (both so far for us and in general) to justify us ripping up a formula that won us the second biggest club competition in football with consumate ease?

I actually think his stat padding vs the lesser sides may drag us into a title race and if he was used in that horses for courses way I'd have no qualms with him atall, however if you think our big game/UCL record is/will be as strong this time then please unleash your analysis because I'm genuinely curious as why you think so.

Juve could could had themselves another 3-0 as the inflicted on Robbie, just were missing the forwards to pull it off. They made the chances.

Very disappointing to go out after half time and be cut open, really lack of professionalism that.

Don't think there is a single player immune from criticism. They all get poor marks, TT included. 

Same sort of performance and defending we saw near the end of franks time with us.

Well we battle Zenit for 2nd spit now imo.

Lastly really good defending from Juve, but boy did we play in to their hands. Rubbish to watch too.

I didn't see the game due to work but am not surprised by the stats, highlights or comments.  These problems run deep and are so apparent when the show - we lack goals from attacking players, period. They lack end product, and without Werner in the team, we immediately lack any sort of supply.  

Created nothing that great today.  Nothing against City.  Spurs were all scored by defenders/midfielder, one from a corner, Zenit was few chances.  We need a lot more from out attacking players and supporting cast.

1 hour ago, axman2526 said:

Juve could could had themselves another 3-0 as the inflicted on Robbie, just were missing the forwards to pull it off. They made the chances.

Very disappointing to go out after half time and be cut open, really lack of professionalism that.

Don't think there is a single player immune from criticism. They all get poor marks, TT included. 

Same sort of performance and defending we saw near the end of franks time with us.

Well we battle Zenit for 2nd spit now imo.

Lastly really good defending from Juve, but boy did we play in to their hands. Rubbish to watch too.

Yes. How do you go from playing the best football in europe, to playing like a team that look like they will be lucky to challenge for anything?.The answer I think is a squad top heavy in dead wood, and lacking in quality, when we lose a few key players.

We need to bite the bullet and realise  we  have an overabundance of sh*te players that would sink a small ship.

Sorry for being a pessimistic,but jesus if we think RLC(who has had more chances than Timo in front of goal)then we are clutching at straws - having said that miracles can happen😄

 

31 minutes ago, jt61 said:

Yes. How do you go from playing the best football in europe, to playing like a team that look like they will be lucky to challenge for anything?.The answer I think is a squad top heavy in dead wood, and lacking in quality, when we lose a few key players.

We need to bite the bullet and realise  we  have an overabundance of sh*te players that would sink a small ship.

Sorry for being a pessimistic,but jesus if we think RLC(who has had more chances than Timo in front of goal)then we are clutching at straws - having said that miracles can happen😄

 

Is what seems ingrained in to the club of late, we get figuered out, have no plan B and we lose belief in ourselves and our manager and start playing really boring football.

Don't think Roman would be too pleased to accept the squad is all deadwood when he just bought a 100mill striker, and has a 72mill "generational talent", 53mill forward who was lethal in Germany, a 72mill keeper, a 52mill player of the year, etc etc.

Plus Kante, who is worth more than the rest of the team combined.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

We had a flawless big game record last season under TT and Kai was fantastic at false 9 in the majority of big games he played. Him, Mount and Werner's general contributions and elite pressing meant we could compete toe to toe against any team in Europe (hence ummmm winning the UCL). Their fluidity and interchanging caused the likes of City and Real all sorts of problems.

What is so outragoues about saying he has to earn his spot in the big games given we have/had such a successful formula in them? We didn't have such a successful formula in the lesser games and (so far) he looks like he's helping to fix that, great no issues with him starting those. If I'm missing something then feel free to enlighten me but what has he shown in the biggest games (both so far for us and in general) to justify us ripping up a formula that won us the second biggest club competition in football with consumate ease?

I actually think his stat padding vs the lesser sides may drag us into a title race and if he was used in that horses for courses way I'd have no qualms with him atall, however if you think our big game/UCL record is/will be as strong this time then please unleash your analysis because I'm genuinely curious as why you think so.

I think you may be letting Kai's goal in the Champions League final gloss things a bit last season. Yes he did have a few decent games and showed some signs that he might go on to great things this season. But I'm not sure I would go as far to say he was fantastic as a false 9 in all those games. If Werner could actually finish then maybe we would have invested in a different position than CF this summer. But the fact that Kai was playing false 9 illustrated the issues we had in that position overall. 

I feel that the key to those games in the run to the Champions League win, was that we most considered underdogs. That worked massively in our favour with Tuchels' tactical approach. Now we are no longer underdogs in a lot of these games we need a different strategy, and so far he is still trying to figure that out it seems.

3 hours ago, Argo said:

We had a flawless big game record last season under TT and Kai was fantastic at false 9 in the majority of big games he played. Him, Mount and Werner's general contributions and elite pressing meant we could compete toe to toe against any team in Europe (hence ummmm winning the UCL). Their fluidity and interchanging caused the likes of City and Real all sorts of problems.

What is so outragoues about saying he has to earn his spot in the big games given we have/had such a successful formula in them? We didn't have such a successful formula in the lesser games and (so far) he looks like he's helping to fix that, great no issues with him starting those. If I'm missing something then feel free to enlighten me but what has he shown in the biggest games (both so far for us and in general) to justify us ripping up a formula that won us the second biggest club competition in football with consumate ease?

I actually think his stat padding vs the lesser sides may drag us into a title race and if he was used in that horses for courses way I'd have no qualms with him atall, however if you think our big game/UCL record is/will be as strong this time then please unleash your analysis because I'm genuinely curious as why you think so.

Are you talking about when ngolo Kante won 3 motm in a row in our route to win cl? 

19 minutes ago, forbzy said:

I think you may be letting Kai's goal in the Champions League final gloss things a bit last season. Yes he did have a few decent games and showed some signs that he might go on to great things this season. But I'm not sure I would go as far to say he was fantastic as a false 9 in all those games. If Werner could actually finish then maybe we would have invested in a different position than CF this summer. But the fact that Kai was playing false 9 illustrated the issues we had in that position overall. 

I feel that the key to those games in the run to the Champions League win, was that we most considered underdogs. That worked massively in our favour with Tuchels' tactical approach. Now we are no longer underdogs in a lot of these games we need a different strategy, and so far he is still trying to figure that out it seems.

Werner problem is not his finishing. He is probably an average finisher but that is not the problem.  

Our problem right now is not Lukaku or werner. My bigger concern is when we don't have mount and kante can anybody step up. Can jogavic dominate midfield? Can Ziyech, Havertz or anybody replace what Mount gave us last year. The answer is nope. 

10 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

Is what seems ingrained in to the club of late, we get figuered out, have no plan B and we lose belief in ourselves and our manager and start playing really boring football.

Don't think Roman would be too pleased to accept the squad is all deadwood when he just bought a 100mill striker, and has a 72mill "generational talent", 53mill forward who was lethal in Germany, a 72mill keeper, a 52mill player of the year, etc etc.

Plus Kante, who is worth more than the rest of the team combined.

I agree with this and certainly your comments on Kante.It just baffles me who in gods name identifies these multi - million pound flops as premiership quality?  - when you pay 50 million plus for a player you should be guaranteed a player that looks at least 'comfortable' in the premiership.

In truth,we are successful because of Roman's  ruthlessness -  I'm just worried at the way we playing now, that means  back to the drawing board again.

We are close to a team that will dominate for at least a couple of years,but we are also close to a team in disarray.The next couple of games will prove TT's mettle.

I would just like to say 'hope springs eternal'.I stated I had kidney cancer and diabetes in a previous post - turns out I was misdiagnosed  with cancer ...happy days!!!  - still diabetic but a mere bagatell.My wife and myself are celebrating so sorry about late posts.

4 hours ago, Argo said:

We had a flawless big game record last season under TT and Kai was fantastic at false 9 in the majority of big games he played. Him, Mount and Werner's general contributions and elite pressing meant we could compete toe to toe against any team in Europe (hence ummmm winning the UCL). Their fluidity and interchanging caused the likes of City and Real all sorts of problems.

What is so outragoues about saying he has to earn his spot in the big games given we have/had such a successful formula in them? We didn't have such a successful formula in the lesser games and (so far) he looks like he's helping to fix that, great no issues with him starting those. If I'm missing something then feel free to enlighten me but what has he shown in the biggest games (both so far for us and in general) to justify us ripping up a formula that won us the second biggest club competition in football with consumate ease?

I actually think his stat padding vs the lesser sides may drag us into a title race and if he was used in that horses for courses way I'd have no qualms with him atall, however if you think our big game/UCL record is/will be as strong this time then please unleash your analysis because I'm genuinely curious as why you think so.

I don't think its fair to use the big games we've played this season as a reason to say Lukaku is not a big game player. Against Liverpool we had 10 men for half the game and were forced to defend for half the match and against City for whatever reason we chose to play defensive. In both games, Lukaku was basically one striker on an island surrounded by defenders. If anything, our other forwards didn't do enough to link the midfield with the attack. 

And even if you want to use the 'big game' route, why is Lukaku being isolated as the only one not playing well against top teams? Last time I checked, Havertz and Ziyech were just as poor today and it had nothing to do with Lukaku. If anything, Lukaku was our only forward that wasn't giving the ball away carelessly in the final third. Blaming Lukaku for other player's poor performances just seems like grasping at straws.

I also see people continuously bring up last season as if we were some master goal scoring team, but if I remember correctly, we were missing chance after chance last season and had one of the worst chance to goal ratio in the league. We won a lot of out matches by lone goals and it was really our world class defence (And Kante) that bailed us out half the time. That reason was the main one why we signed Lukaku, why should we go back to playing the same forward line last season against big teams?

 

Edited September 30, 20214 yr by Frankie8Lampard

1 hour ago, forbzy said:

I think you may be letting Kai's goal in the Champions League final gloss things a bit last season. Yes he did have a few decent games and showed some signs that he might go on to great things this season. But I'm not sure I would go as far to say he was fantastic as a false 9 in all those games. If Werner could actually finish then maybe we would have invested in a different position than CF this summer. But the fact that Kai was playing false 9 illustrated the issues we had in that position overall. 

I feel that the key to those games in the run to the Champions League win, was that we most considered underdogs. That worked massively in our favour with Tuchels' tactical approach. Now we are no longer underdogs in a lot of these games we need a different strategy, and so far he is still trying to figure that out it seems.

Top notch post especially what you say about Havertz - he is a (very) poor mans ozil.

I see no future for him  with us.Get rid and put it down to experience

14 minutes ago, Frankie8Lampard said:

I don't think its fair to use the big games we've played this season as a reason to say Lukaku is not a big game player. Against Liverpool we had 10 men for half the game and were forced to defend for half the match and against City for whatever reason we chose to play defensive. In both games, Lukaku was basically one striker on an island surrounded by defenders. If anything, our other forwards didn't do enough to link the midfield with the attack. 

And even if you want to use the 'big game' route, why is Lukaku being isolated as the only one not playing well against top teams? Last time I checked, Havertz and Ziyech were just as poor today and it had nothing to do with Lukaku. If anything, Lukaku was our only forward that wasn't giving the ball away carelessly in the final third. Blaming Lukaku for other player's poor performances just seems like grasping at straws.

I also see people continuously bring up last season as if we were some master goal scoring team, but if I remember correctly, we were missing chance after chance last season and had one of the worst chance to goal ratio in the league. We won a lot of out matches by lone goals and it was really our world class defence (And Kante) that bailed us out half the time. That reason was the main one why we signed Lukaku, why should we go back to playing the same forward line last season against big teams?

 

I love the fact we are asking questions.It is the cohesive response from fans that should answer questions to the management.

4 hours ago, forbzy said:

I feel that the key to those games in the run to the Champions League win, was that we most considered underdogs. That worked massively in our favour with Tuchels' tactical approach. Now we are no longer underdogs in a lot of these games we need a different strategy, and so far he is still trying to figure that out it seems.

I think this is a significant point. We might have won the CL, but we also stumbled over the line into fourth despite our own best efforts to not do so. We were underdogs in those final CL fixtures and we approached those games with a biggest game of the season approach. You can't win the league or even nearly win the league playing a whole season of 'cup finals'. I think that the truth is that this is still not a great Chelsea side and with players like Havertz, Werner, Kovacic, Odoi, Pulisic, and a few more we have a long way to go to become a league title winning side.

I suggest we fire Tuchel around the turn of the year and appoint anyone who will then use the situation that Tuchel and RDM used to have a better finish to the season, scrape fourth, maybe win a cup against the odds and give everyone (including our own fans) the perception that we are the best side in the world again. It's the Chelsea way. We should also buy Abraham back for 180 million next summer.

I thought the ref was their 12th man, especially in the first half. 

We could have easily gotten a penalty when Havertz was clipped in the box.

Seems like lots of fans don’t expect Tuchel actually thinks about formations, tactics, strategy very much. I’m quite sure he does and also that he and his ppl are more competent than all TSE-users combined.

Criticism should always  be welcome of course, and no one should be above it, but come on - some ppl even calling for him to be replaced. It’s utterly ridiculous.

Btw, it’s always good to remember that there are two teams on the pitch, both trying their best to score and keeping the opponent from scoring. Juventus - while not as good as some years ago - are still very much a quality team with the worlds most experienced and clever defensive players. It’s no catastrophe to not score against them, and it’s not necessarily a tactical failure - might just be that they are really good defensively, and no matter who we put on the field would have had a hard time.

Chill ppl.