1 hour ago, Voorhesian said:

Can Pulisic eventually become as good as these players?  Is batman a transvestite? Who knows.  Nobody on this forum does, that's for sure.   

While I get the sentiment I can assure you Pulisic has absolutely 0% chance of being as good as Hazard, Salah or Henry or Sterling for the same reason I have no chance or the same reason almost every parent in the country knows their 20 year old sons have no chance.   The talent just isn't there and it's clear to see.

We've all seen Pulisics level and what he had to give and there's nothing worth wasting a squad spot on.  Not every promising 16 year old becomes a top player, Pulisic is less like Henry and Salah and more like Borini and Kakuta but his countrymen won't give up the absolutely ridiculous idea he's some kind of special talent despite 249 games to the contrary.

Personally I'd be very surprised to see Pulisic come anywhere close to Trossards career numbers, Pulisic has had the benefit of playing with elite attacking players in dominant attacking teams his entire career both at Dortmund and here and the reality is he's been the worst attacking player at both his clubs which is why he consistently finds himself on the bench regardless of the manager or the system.

Potter needs quality, if he's stuck with Pulisic he'll almost certainly be looking for another job in 18 months.

You just know the same people that wanted Tuchel out will blame Potter for not being able to get Hazard like performances out of a 23 year old that was a hyped youth prospect but has been dogsh*t his entire professional career.

Edited September 9, 20223 yr by HazardousChoice

2 hours ago, Sexyfootball said:

Must admit I'm massively surprised that there aren't a load of videos all over the club web site to show GP's first training session ... 

Think the queen has something to do with that 

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

If that is right, and am not sure it is, probably that was because more people were upset Frank got sacked whereas we were shocked TT Did.

Tuchel who had failed at PSG and been uninspiring compared to Klopp at Dortmund? People were a bit meh. He felt refreshing to people like me who wanted frank out, but I wasn't thinking we've got a world class manager. That seemed to be the consensus, meh. 

Comparing GP to the FSW is unfair !! The latter while he may have won us a trophy was Bindipping 'scum' who had previous with our fanbase !

Here the Guardian just backed up my theory he's got a free pass this season i.e. wont be fired if we don't make top 4 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/09/chelsea-plan-to-keep-graham-potter-even-if-they-fail-to-finish-in-top-four

 

The article someone kindly linked to about Potter in Sweden contained this quote:

"The squad have written a play together, collaborated on a book, started a on-going art project and, best of all, performed Swan Lake in front of 1,500 audience members at a local theatre."

I look forward to the boys doing swan lake or similar at Stamford Bridge, I'm sure that will liven up the crowd. Trying to figure who would play what role.

As for an ongoing art project I am thinking there are a few walls in the area that could use some murals and slogans.

Potter is a big experiment. Look at my current aussie coaching hero,  Postecoglou, he won in Australia, japan (when he wouldn't have spoken much if any Japanese) won australia the asian championship, the only time, and then won with Celtic at the first attempt when most celtic fans expected him to be sacked within a month. This year celtic are killing it domestically. So that is three different leagues, completely different, plus the national team that he has proved he has what it takes to win. Not merit certificates, not most improved, but the big kahuna.

The biggest knock on Potter remains that he hasn't won anything at all. He has always coached small, losing clubs. Sure he has improved them heaps and his methods and results are good. But winning is different to being competitive.

I'll be supporting Potter and Ill be interested to see how he goes at a big club but he will have to work to get the dressing room to buy in and show that the club has what it takes to win. And winning is what its about. Bugger the culture, the money. I want results, don't care whether the football is boring. 1.0 boring its better than 3:4 exciting.

1 hour ago, General said:

Comparing GP to the FSW is unfair !! The latter while he may have won us a trophy was Bindipping 'scum' who had previous with our fanbase !

Here the Guardian just backed up my theory he's got a free pass this season i.e. wont be fired if we don't make top 4 

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2022/sep/09/chelsea-plan-to-keep-graham-potter-even-if-they-fail-to-finish-in-top-four

 

There are no more annoying and despicable fans than them. Especially those of them who like to pretending to be fans on others teams while on their forums...

Its only them too @axman2526 I've not known it from any other fans before! Its bizarre!

1 hour ago, Mod said:

Its only them too @axman2526 I've not known it from any other fans before! Its bizarre!

You get the odd one from a rival but none as consistent as them lot. Such a miserable sods, they need to drag others down while inflating their own self worths.

As Graham will have a hand, apparently, in helping chose our next director of football, sporting director, or whatever title they get, I wonder if we will try and take Dan Ashworth off Newcastle?

He only went there in February but clearly Todd is a ruthless son of a gun and if they feel he is the right man...

There are no free passes at Chelsea, results come first and everything else is optional. Do we really think Boehly be happy if we drop out of the CL and cost him all those revenues? He's taking this as a business, not as a hobby, so expect him to be even less sentimental than Roman. Attacking and entertaining football alone won't cut it at Chelsea, it will be seen as reckless and naive. Any Chelsea manager pulled an Arteta move by making 3 attacking subs after 70 minutes and lost the game be hammered.

Moving from a “boom and bust” model to a “project” does make worry that we’ll turn into Arsenal - continual failure and “building for next season” mentality. 
 

Tuchel showed that you don’t need to build for years. Yes some building is needed but not years. 
 

By all accounts though, lots of people in the game highly rate Potter. Simon Jordan on TalkSPORT said that he had a text yesterday from a current PL club chief exec saying Potter was an elite manager. 

Edited September 10, 20223 yr by JM7

18 minutes ago, JM7 said:

Moving from a “boom and bust” model to a “project” does make worry that we’ll turn into Arsenal - continual failure and “building for next season” mentality. 
 

Tuchel showed that you don’t need to build for years. Yes some building is needed but not years. 
 

By all accounts though, lots of people in the game highly rate Potter. Simon Jordan on TalkSPORT said that he had a text yesterday from a current PL club chief exec saying Potter was an elite manager. 

Whilst I share your worry that we could turn into Woolwich FC, I dont agree with the statement that Tuchel "showed that you dont need to build for years". 

What exactly did he show?

He came in, stabilized the defence and fair play, won us the Big eared cup...but since then he has destroyed the team.  He made us worse going forward, worse in defence (when compared to how solid we were when he first took over) and worse to watch.  We were one of the most boring teams to watch, and our "style" had not evolved or progressed in any way.  So I am not sure what Tuchel "showed" in regards to planning. At the time of his sacking we looked further away from being a title challenging team than we have for a long time, since Jose mk2.

4 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

Whilst I share your worry that we could turn into Woolwich FC, I dont agree with the statement that Tuchel "showed that you dont need to build for years". 

What exactly did he show?

He came in, stabilized the defence and fair play, won us the Big eared cup...but since then he has destroyed the team.  He made us worse going forward, worse in defence (when compared to how solid we were when he first took over) and worse to watch.  We were one of the most boring teams to watch, and our "style" had not evolved or progressed in any way.  So I am not sure what Tuchel "showed" in regards to planning. At the time of his sacking we looked further away from being a title challenging team than we have for a long time, since Jose mk2.

That’s true

26 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

What exactly did he show?

He came in, stabilized the defence and fair play, won us the Big eared cup..

And he had us top of the league in December with a gap to second place until an unprecedented injury crisis hit.

And he won the SuperCup and the CWC.

And he got us to every domestic cupfinal in his time here.

And he was unlucky not to go through v Real Madrid and taking us into the semifinal again last season.

And he integrated four academy lads into his team and played them. I'd like to see Potter beat that in 18 months. He won't.

Bottom line: When Tuchel had a settled squad he competed for every single trophy including the biggest ones.

That's the standard he set after taking over from Lampard when we all thought it was going to take years and years for us to compete with the best in Europe again. Getting trashed by Bayern more or less confirmed that. Only for Tuchel to come in and then dominate Europes best and win the whole thing.

So good luck to Potter. I'd like to see him win manage to win the Champions League this season.

 

1 hour ago, JM7 said:

Simon Jordan on TalkSPORT said that he had a text yesterday from a current PL club chief exec saying Potter was an elite manager. 

Probably from Boehly 🙂 

22 hours ago, ozboy said:

Pretty points playing he said she said guys. I am more interested in looking foraward and the only reason to look at Tuchel now is to understand why things went wrong, and to be honest I don't understand that. 

Yes we played a slow build up but that isn't that unusual, when tuchel arrived the defence was hopeless after he arrived we had a great period, then we didn't. Was it something in the water?

Even more surprising is that Boehly went ahead and bought all the players for the style and then sacked him. Its weird.

But anyway that stuff belongs in the Tuchel thread this is the Potter thread.

What interests me is how Potter is going to make the midfield work better and what he is going to do against a low block. 

One of the troubles with lower team coaches coming to the big clubs is that usual clubs like Brighton are playing with their own low block and trying to score at the end of the game or when the big club over reaches. 

All of Potter's experience is with "bad" teams doing better than expected. Its a completely different coaching scenario when you are expected to win every game in every competition and where the thing is do something useful with all the possession you have.

That's the step Potter has to take and that's why its a risk. If you look at Manu at lesast Ten Haag had won the Eredvisie. Ferguson had won in Scotland (i think), Wenger in France. Mourinho in Portugal.

I'll be interested to see how it goes

Yes there is maybe some risk of a Moyes to Man U type scenario. Another striking parallel with Man U (sorry!) of big holes / legacies left (by Roman and Ferguson) that are hard to fill/match. Ok, manager and owner are very different. Still, Roman was a much shrewder owner than widely believed. And are we now in a kind of private equity model - that wrecking ball of everything and anything good?

I turned pessimistic on Chelsea when Roman left - end of an era. An era during which many began to take winning for granted. But winning trophies is extremely difficult even if you throw huge amounts of cash. Look at Man U (again - sorry!). if Potter doesn’t succeed it won’t necessarily be his fault. Bigger forces at work.

hope I’m wrong.

33 minutes ago, Sindre said:

And he had us top of the league in December with a gap to second place until an unprecedented injury crisis hit.

And he won the SuperCup and the CWC. - We struggled to beat weaker opposition in the CWC and sneaked over the line with pens in the super cup friendly. Dont get me wrong, its great that we won, but it is hardly progress in how we crept over the line. We were awful in the CWC!

And he got us to every domestic cupfinal in his time here. - Celebrating finals is not progress. How many did we win? how many goals did we score in those finals?

And he was unlucky not to go through v Real Madrid and taking us into the semifinal again last season.  - It wasnt luck that cost us, it was mistakes. Mendy and Kante specifically cost us the goals, coupled with a horrendous first leg performance in which we were set up far to negatively. The second leg however was some of the best football we have played, and supports the fact that under TT we were capable of being a great cup team, when on the odd occasion he let us play with the handbrake off.

And he integrated four academy lads into his team and played them. I'd like to see Potter beat that in 18 months. He won't. -  Who are we talking about? Broja and Gallagher?- Broja has hardly kicked a ball, and Connor has been played out of position and has been horrible? Reece and mase were already fully established in the team, CHO was already fully established in the squad. Not sure about Chalobah and who gave him his break.

 

My responses in the text (in bold) above....

Dont get me wrong, Tuchel did wonders in winning us the European cup, and worked under some very testing circumstances. But we are talking about progress. There was very little progress, and as I said, it can be strongly argued that there has been regression, particularly in the amount we concede, the amount we score and the way we play.

10 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

My responses in the text (in bold) above....

Dont get me wrong, Tuchel did wonders in winning us the European cup, and worked under some very testing circumstances. But we are talking about progress. There was very little progress, and as I said, it can be strongly argued that there has been regression, particularly in the amount we concede, the amount we score and the way we play.

Rather ignores the absolutely extreme set of circumstances he had to operate under after the Chilwell injury, which I hope no other Chelsea manager ever has to deal with.

Everything Tuchel was doing after that was firefighting, and triage management, with on face value very little help from above, and a few snowflakes in the playing squad doing their utmost to be obstructive.  I'm sure he would have loved a nice stable environment to build on his successes. Hopefully Potter will have that (actually I am sure he will, because Boehly is heavily invested in him)

1 hour ago, Sexyfootball said:

Rather ignores the absolutely extreme set of circumstances he had to operate under after the Chilwell injury, which I hope no other Chelsea manager ever has to deal with.

Everything Tuchel was doing after that was firefighting, and triage management, with on face value very little help from above, and a few snowflakes in the playing squad doing their utmost to be obstructive.  I'm sure he would have loved a nice stable environment to build on his successes. Hopefully Potter will have that (actually I am sure he will, because Boehly is heavily invested in him)

Yep, I do not disagree that he was working, as many managers have to,  under a difficult set of circumstances. Losing 2 of our wingbacks was a puzzle that he had to solve, and he did so by reverting to the ultra cautious, negative, backwards/sideways ball recycling. It worked to the extent that we scrapped into the top 4, but was not progression and it was certainly boring. Other managers who dont have players of the quality of Chillwell or James to lose find other solutions, or at least try to....they all live or die by their decisions.

And simply, if there were any players in the squad who were doing their "utmost to be obstructive" as you allege, then the answer is simple....don't play them.

 

Have watched probably an hours worth of interviews with Potter. He seems very calm, intelligent person. He does have that Pep, Jose or even Tuchel charisma as a person but he seems likeable and you can see why he is at the level he is. 

About that dancing and art- thing.. that is as swedish as anything you will come up with. They love that sort of thing. I am not sure if that is something fitting into Chelsea or England. The idea behind it is naturally bonding as a group and seeing something evolve. You can do that with other projects as well. Progressive swedish thinking...

It is very hard to predict what the expectations are for this season with Potter. As TT was sacked so early I think this is a start of a project and expectations are probably lower than with Tommy. 

What we have here is a story where the manager has a chance to achieve something new. We are used to having managers with a great resume...

4 hours ago, JM7 said:

Moving from a “boom and bust” model to a “project” does make worry that we’ll turn into Arsenal - continual failure and “building for next season” mentality. 
 

Tuchel showed that you don’t need to build for years. Yes some building is needed but not years. 
 

By all accounts though, lots of people in the game highly rate Potter. Simon Jordan on TalkSPORT said that he had a text yesterday from a current PL club chief exec saying Potter was an elite manager. 

I'd completely disagree with this, Arsenal fans could only dream of an owner spending £300m in one transfer window. The Arsenal owners have spent the past 15 or so years giving the managers breadcrumbs in comparison to most of the other big teams in England.

Nothing that our new owners have done so far has shown that they're willing to accept over a decade of failure, of course we will wait and see but by the sounds of it he want to implement something which most of our fans have clamoured for for years, which is stability. 

8 minutes ago, timetowaste said:

I'd completely disagree with this, Arsenal fans could only dream of an owner spending £300m in one transfer window. The Arsenal owners have spent the past 15 or so years giving the managers breadcrumbs in comparison to most of the other big teams in England.

Nothing that our new owners have done so far has shown that they're willing to accept over a decade of failure, of course we will wait and see but by the sounds of it he want to implement something which most of our fans have clamoured for for years, which is stability. 

Arsenal has essentially had the same problems as us and MU for example. They have wrong people making the decisions (and a lack of long term plan). Also, both clubs are recovering from having a system and personnel in place in SAF and Wenger. Both clubs are still in a void and as Lpool and City are miles ahead the trophies are not there for the taking. We are closer because we have a better recent history and big money to spend. 

We can just as easily slip into Arsenaldom if we are not careful. If we go with Potter for 5 seasons and we stall, we have just spent 5 years without a Trophy. It is a risk but I am personally ready for it. 

Anyone watch Brighton religiously enough to comment on the style of play?

 

11 hours ago, ozboy said:

I want results, don't care whether the football is boring. 1.0 boring its better than 3:4 exciting.

The problems with boring football is that it doesn’t create or score goals, it’s impossible to never concede and those 1-0 leads become 1-1 draws or 2-1 losses. A 3-4 loss type of football can sometimes be 4-0 wins. Boring footy that relies on trying to stop the other team scoring doesn’t work against the best teams and if we can’t beat those teams we’ll never be the best. 
 

Tuchel’s last 30+ league games of boring football wouldn’t have qualified us for the CL and that is no result! 

4 minutes ago, BS66 said:

 

Tuchel’s last 30+ league games of boring football wouldn’t have qualified us for the CL and that is no result! 

I don't understand, we did qualify for CL though so there is a result?

10 minutes ago, BS66 said:

The problems with boring football is that it doesn’t create or score goals, it’s impossible to never concede and those 1-0 leads become 1-1 draws or 2-1 losses. A 3-4 loss type of football can sometimes be 4-0 wins. Boring footy that relies on trying to stop the other team scoring doesn’t work against the best teams and if we can’t beat those teams we’ll never be the best. 
 

Tuchel’s last 30+ league games of boring football wouldn’t have qualified us for the CL and that is no result! 

Win is a win. The trend in football created by Barcelona, City and Liverpool is players and fans wanting the games end 6-0 or 4-3 rather than the nineties when Italian teams mastered 1-0 or 2-0 wins. 

We are one of the biggest clubs so of we are to grow we need to show a brand of football people want.