Look at Lusis Rubiales sacked for kissing the Spanish women's player. Years ago that would have been ignored. Now he resigns, that's how serious some of these things can be.

And to Gol15's point I am certain as I can be that Rubiales didn't realise what he was doing was wrong, may well  have thought it perfectly acceptable even polite. Doesn't matter. 

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by ozboy

Even if what Enzo did was as bad as Rubiales and it's probably worse in most people's eyes the difference is that Rubiales was expendable. Chelsea will find a way to manage Enzo because we can't afford not to. Just have to take the scars and move on. 

8 hours ago, axman2526 said:

If England had actually delivered nothing would have knocked Rice, or anyone else involved, off being national heros within England imo. 

You must be joking there would be a massive outcry in the media and especially social media where if a story has legs it runs and runs. Go on Twitter and people are saying Enzo is a racist cause he plays for Chelsea it's ridiculous. People will twist things Farage blaming Jo Brand for Trump's assassination is just off the scale weird just because she said something about him.

11 hours ago, g3.7 said:

Ah yes, now I see. It's a celebration of multiculturalism!

Thanks for helping me see the light, Gol! Weird fernandez felt the need to apologise for what he calls "highly offensive language" then. Weird that various news media are describing it as racist then. Weird that a number of black French players have publicly described it as racist. Weird that Chelsea have put out a statement saying that they are against discrimination then, and that disciplinary measures against fernandez will be taken. It's almost like you have some kind of severe head injury, isn't it? Don't be offended by that, it's only me championing your ability to to dig ever deeper holes as you continue to excuse the inexcusable. 

Hard to believe there isn't a Nina Simone song about this

I miss the days where if you had a problem with someone you brought it up with them. 

Enzo was stupid and naive to sign the song and even more stupid and naive to record himself doing it. The problem has been multiplied ten fold now with players at Chelsea posting stories about each other like bitchy school children. 

Jackson shouldn't be posting stories in support as it creates further divide between team mates.

Both Fofana's shouldn't be posting stories about it, if you have a problem you have Enzo's phone number. Call him and express your disgust in private. Now the club being further embarrassed by the internal civil war being made public.

There needs to be some serious conversations with the squad about their use of social media...

24 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

I miss the days where if you had a problem with someone you brought it up with them. 

Enzo was stupid and naive to sign the song and even more stupid and naive to record himself doing it. The problem has been multiplied ten fold now with players at Chelsea posting stories about each other like bitchy school children. 

Jackson shouldn't be posting stories in support as it creates further divide between team mates.

Both Fofana's shouldn't be posting stories about it, if you have a problem you have Enzo's phone number. Call him and express your disgust in private. Now the club being further embarrassed by the internal civil war being made public.

There needs to be some serious conversations with the squad about their use of social media...

I think it's just a cultural relativism issue. And dare I say it, different areas in the world have different standards of viewing things, what the Western World deems as racist over here, in South America it isn't, whether you think that's wrong or right that's your opinion. And even though Enzo lives in the UK, he's lived in Argentina for most of his life, so that's probably why he didn't see any wrong in what he was doing.

It reminds me of when the Scousers said cultural differences when it came to Suarez and Evra, and even though I do genuinely believe Suarez was being a racist twat and knew what he was doing, there was a good argument to be made as the word he said to Evra isn't derogatory in South America like it is here. 

As for the whole argument on ethnicity and nationality, it's always been a tricky one. I myself have always identified as British, but I know many others who have African heritage and have been here longer than me, born here, yet they'll identify more with the country their parents were from than the country they were born in. That's just a reality, everyone is different I'm afraid, and that's what makes this whole situation complex.

Personally, I am not offended by what Enzo said, but some people will be, it is what it is. I'm just hoping it can get sorted out in the dressing room and we can move past it, I don't think it's as deep as some people are making it out to be, but again that's my view. 

11 hours ago, Gol15 said:

He never mentioned anything about racism, he fully acknowledged that it is offensive.  

Mentioned you in another thread to another poster chap who it was addressed to. see below. Peace out. 

Im sorry, i dont share the view on forfana posting it being an idiot. Far from it. I think he needs to be applauded, good on him imho - given the levesl of racist abuse his post received he deserves fan support in its entirety and it kind of frames the wider issues football actually has to contend with and that starts with us fans too being supportive and probably less tribal, so with that, I apologise to Gol for what I called him yesterday. 

I do wholeheartedly support your view on clubs taking a far more proactive approach to handling social media. That will come with education which to my understanding kids are being given in schools... Companies do provide this kind of resilience/ contingency training/ planning. 

It's now an internal matter for the manager and board to go through and most importantly, the players to work through before the season starts. Wish them all good luck in finding mutual ground and the club draws this sorry saga to a close in a suitable manner that resolves all the issues. 

I also think Fofana and Co probably could have showed more maturity in their reaction than they have. One idiot livestreams to the world his ignorance while some of his teammates take it to social media to let everybody know what they think of him. All that thirst for attention from the modern generation is unhealthy. 

I long for the times when men were men and resolved their issues face to face instead of turning into attention whores and letting the world to fight their battles for them.

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

It's a weird one. 

I remember when Trevor Noah said Africa have won the World Cup after France did it 8 years ago and nobody seemed to care. I feel at times there is selective outrage on this issue. 

 I would guess that he, as an African person, was expressing the debt France owes to the African countries it violently colonised. This is in the context of France's far right* becoming more prominent in the last few decades. It's quite a different thing.

 

*a far right that has always rejected and attacked black people in their country, and whose stated policies amount to a rejection of the idea that black French people are really French. They are proposing policies, in other words, that would give real effect to the racist ideas in the song Enzo and his teammates were filmed singing. 

 

50 minutes ago, Ukraine Bolt said:

Both Fofana's shouldn't be posting stories about it, if you have a problem you have Enzo's phone number. Call him and express your disgust in private. Now the club being further embarrassed by the internal civil war being made public.

Mate. People absolutely should be highlighting racism loudly and publicly whenever they can. 

Protecting a corporate institution (which is what Chelsea is) is a terrible reason be silent about racism. 

The whole race talk is something that Enzo should avoid at all costs. 

He's a grown ass man, not a little kid. He knew how controversial that song was.

The wild thing is Enzo and most of the Argentinian team is white. Enzo himself is not native to the land he claims. South America was not inhabited by white people. The natives were completely wiped out, for the most part in Argentina.

So, its insanely hypocritcal to be questioning the nationality of black French players. 

 

“X] Argentina's Vice-President Victoria Villarruel: "No colonialist country is going to intimidate us for a football song or for telling the truths that they do not want to admit. Stop feigning indignation, hypocrites. Enzo, I'm with you."”

Argentina is a coloniast country. What is that bitch talking about?

 

Argentina is a country of immigrants making fun of immigrants from another country. 

Populist politicians and dumb as rocks footballers unite

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by The Liquidator

41 minutes ago, bluetrooper said:

Mentioned you in another thread to another poster chap who it was addressed to. see below. Peace out. 

 

Im sorry, i dont share the view on forfana posting it being an idiot. Far from it. I think he needs to be applauded, good on him imho - given the levesl of racist abuse his post received he deserves fan support in its entirety and it kind of frames the wider issues football actually has to contend with and that starts with us fans too being supportive and probably less tribal, so with that, I apologise to Gol for what I called him yesterday. 

I do wholeheartedly support your view on clubs taking a far more proactive approach to handling social media. That will come with education which to my understanding kids are being given in schools... Companies do provide this kind of resilience/ contingency training/ planning. 

It's now an internal matter for the manager and board to go through and most importantly, the players to work through before the season starts. Wish them all good luck in finding mutual ground and the club draws this sorry saga to a close in a suitable manner that resolves all the issues. 

I also apologize if I come across as too aggressive, in my memory of Coco I don't wish to fight other CFC fans and I don't post as often as I did before so I hope you can forgive me for not being as good enough to explain that I just wish that Enzo's stupidity of posting that celebration on social media is handled in-house despite him being inconsiderate towards the French teammates, I know it looks bad but I feel that it doesn't need to be.

The song is an offensive dig towards the French team and it's normal for them to be offended, I just hope that the squad can heal from this since I personally wouldn't like Enzo to be removed from the team as I am convinced that he isn't a racist person nor a bad teammate either.

Argentina is seen as an extreme football culture even among other Latin American nations, I hope that people remember that Enzo isn't as bad as a person and that he loves CFC even with the flawed behavior that he has.

2 hours ago, abramovich said:

None of it matters if black players at the club refuse to believe his apology and the dressing room remains divided. We can talk non stop on how it's no big deal and that he's young and stupid and got caught in a moment, but it's not you or me he insulted, so it's not for us to decide when and if, it's time to move on.

This. A lot of fans keep talking how they feel. Whether you feel offended or not by what enzo post is not important. 

The fact that it offend some of our player is the problem. 

Anyone remember the Top Gear crew running for their lives out of Argentina for a couple of childish jokes about the Falklands. That sort of stunt was Clarkson's raison d'etre and the Argies lost their minds but to them a song with massive racist overtones and implications is completely acceptable.

It’s always interesting watching discussions like this as a black guy and how quickly some are to dismiss this and tell black people how they should react to be offended or not be offended.

 

 

 

4 minutes ago, El regreso said:

It’s always interesting watching discussions like this as a black guy and how quickly some are to dismiss this and tell black people how they should react to be offended or not be offended.

 

 

 

I'm also black as you well know since we've had these discussions before. And nobody in here is doing that, everyone has a right to their opinion, everyone has a right to be offended, but just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right. 

4 minutes ago, El regreso said:

It’s always interesting watching discussions like this as a black guy and how quickly some are to dismiss this and tell black people how they should react to be offended or not be offended.

Let’s not forget though, you did get offended over someone posting a Donkey in the Jackson thread! 

14 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I'm also black as you well know since we've had these discussions before. And nobody in here is doing that, everyone has a right to their opinion, everyone has a right to be offended, but just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right. 

What’s your background am curious.

17 minutes ago, Mod said:

Let’s not forget though, you did get offended over someone posting a Donkey in the Jackson thread! 

Comparing black people to animals is a well known black trope.

Just like singing even though you play for France you are not really French because your parents come from Africa.

Same with people abused the black players who missed penalties at euro 2020 claiming there weren’t English.

Edited July 18, 20242 yr by El regreso

51 minutes ago, ozboy said:

“X] Argentina's Vice-President Victoria Villarruel: "No colonialist country is going to intimidate us for a football song or for telling the truths that they do not want to admit. Stop feigning indignation, hypocrites. Enzo, I'm with you."”

The issue is now becoming an international crisis, Milei has sacked his country’s Sports undersecretary for suggesting that Messi should apologise on behalf of the team. 

3 minutes ago, El regreso said:

What’s your background am curious.

What's the relevance? 

2 minutes ago, El regreso said:

Comparing black people to animals is a well known black trope.

Comparing useless people to donkeys is also a common theme, are you Scouse by any chance?

26 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

I'm also black as you well know since we've had these discussions before. And nobody in here is doing that. 

Some people clearly have, implicitly and maybe explicitly too.