1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

The assistance came from Romero, Udogie, Ange and their in game injuries really. Zero sympathy for Spuds obv but we were lucky they collectively lost their heads.

The 3 points were really important but when every other manager in the Premier League watched it I bet the main takeaway was  that we are a team thats incredibly frail and incredibly beatable.
So now its down to us to prove to them and everyone else that we are a serious team that intend to compete, at least for Top 4.
It's still not outside the realm of possibility that we can be in or very close to Top 4 if we kick on and do well in our fixtures until Christmas or so but we need to improve a lot for that to happen.

 

What's it going to take for you to give the team some credit? If Chelsea win it's down to luck, if we lose we're the worst team in the world, terrible owners, terrible manager, all the players are frauds.

You always find a way to complain about the team. Where are the excuses for the injuries we've suffered all season? Do we not get that card to play or is it just our rivals? Give the team some credit ffs, they had a shakey 15 minutes, but they came back to fight, had 3 disallowed goals, two of them wouldn't have been disallowed if it wasn't for VAR. We gave Arsenal one of their most difficult games of the season and they got back into it due to a head fart by Sanchez, and we just beat a team that was undefeated. Yes of course some luck was involved, but it's not like we should've been 3-0 down before the red card, there was a good game. 

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

What's it going to take for you to give the team some credit? If Chelsea win it's down to luck, if we lose we're the worst team in the world, terrible owners, terrible manager, all the players are frauds.

You always find a way to complain about the team. Where are the excuses for the injuries we've suffered all season? Do we not get that card to play or is it just our rivals? Give the team some credit ffs, they had a shakey 15 minutes, but they came back to fight, had 3 disallowed goals, two of them wouldn't have been disallowed if it wasn't for VAR. We gave Arsenal one of their most difficult games of the season and they got back into it due to a head fart by Sanchez, and we just beat a team that was undefeated. Yes of course some luck was involved, but it's not like we should've been 3-0 down before the red card, there was a good game. 

You literally called it sh*t yourself and now you are going to have a go at me for agreeing? Odd.

If we become a team that even resemble the Chelsea of old you'll see me give plenty of credit. For now we are and have been an utter shambles for well over a year so do forgive me for not waxing lyrical about this lower half of the table Chelsea side.

When I see things like people taking positives out of a 2-0 loss at home to Brentford because we created a couple of chances in the first I shudder. Hopefully there are fans and others around the club that is more interested in maintaining standards than that.

And since I already know how you are going to answer. Yes, I know its a project or process or whatever you want to call it.
But very few Chelsea supporters asked for whats been implemented and while the owners have to right to do whatever they want they cannot force or expect supporters to throw the standards that the likes of Mourinho, JT, Lampard, Drogba and many others built the club on for 2 decades in the bin in the name of a project.

So as I mentioned in my brutally negative first post (😂) lets hope we kick on now and actually show some fight to get into the Top 4 or 5 this season. We don't even need to quite achieve it, as long as we fight and are in the running i'll applaud.
If we don't and end up mid-table or lower-half again I won't, fair enough innit?

Edited November 8, 20232 yr by OriginalS

47 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

You literally called it sh*t yourself and now you are going to have a go at me for agreeing? Odd.

If we become a team that even resemble the Chelsea of old you'll see me give plenty of credit. For now we are and have been an utter shambles for well over a year so do forgive me for not waxing lyrical about this lower half of the table Chelsea side.

When I see things like people taking positives out of a 2-0 loss at home to Brentford because we created a couple of chances in the first I shudder. Hopefully there are fans and others around the club that is more interested in maintaining standards than that.

And since I already know how you are going to answer. Yes, I know its a project or process or whatever you want to call it.
But very few Chelsea supporters asked for whats been implemented and while the owners have to right to do whatever they want they cannot force or expect supporters to throw the standards that the likes of Mourinho, JT, Lampard, Drogba and many others built the club on for 2 decades in the bin in the name of a project.

So as I mentioned in my brutally negative first post (😂) lets hope we kick on now and actually show some fight to get into the Top 4 or 5 this season. We don't even need to quite achieve it, as long as we fight and are in the running i'll applaud.
If we don't and end up mid-table or lower-half again I won't, fair enough innit?

I thought our performance after they had 9 men was laughably bad for sure, but I am also proud that they came back after the first goal. So it wasn't all that bad, I don't think we would've lost had they not had their players sent off. Which is nothing to do with luck anyway, they were playing dirty, Enzo didn't recover from Romero's challenge. They paid for their tactics.   

My problem is the constant negative narratives, no matter what happens after a game there's always a spin on it. whenever we win a game it's always down to luck and the other team playing badly. You already know this team isn't going to finish in the top 4 so you're setting an unrealistic standard by expecting this team to get into the top 4, when there are teams like City, Newcastle, Arsenal, Liverpool, Tottenham, who are far better established than we currently are. 

The likelihood is we're going to be positioned closer to midtable than we are top 4 this season just due to the lack of goals and inconsistency in the team. So talking about Chelsea standards is pointless as of now. I can very much accept and even somewhat resonate with criticism of our current ownership that's got us into this position. But what's done is done, it would be impossible to hit old Chelsea standards immediately with a brand-new inexperienced team. 

Edited November 8, 20232 yr by Victor90

4 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

he likelihood is we're going to be positioned closer to midtable than we are top 4 this season just due to the lack of goals and inconsistency in the team. So talking about Chelsea standards is pointless as of now. I can very much accept and even somewhat resonate with criticism of our current ownership that's got us into this position. But what's done is done, it would be impossible to hit old Chelsea standards immediately with a brand-new inexperienced team. 

I strongly disagree but don't have time to debate this further.

The standards should never be forgotten and when you start accepting mediocrity like you and several others have you are in trouble in my opinion.

 

2 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

I strongly disagree but don't have time to debate this further.

The standards should never be forgotten and when you start accepting mediocrity like you and several others have you are in trouble in my opinion.

 

I'm talking about the here and now, but let me just throw in two points that you and several others keep making on here:

1. The owners have signed too many players in one window full of inexperienced kids who aren't good enough.

2. We should be expecting the best out of this team and not let standards slip.

How can both be true? If you and numerous others have already accepted Todd has botched this window and the players aren't good enough, how can we expect the same form of results that we got under say Tuchel? That's not reasonable in my eyes.

Like I said, what's done is done. Criticise Todd all you want, but you need to accept the reality that as of now this team isn't good enough to be finishing in or near the top 4 right now. There's a debate to be had if it ever will be, that's fair enough. But as of right now, you have to lower your expectations for the current season. I personally do believe in the project, I think this club has needed this for some time and it will pay off in the future. I could be wrong, but what I do know is that RIGHT NOW this team isn't ready for that level just yet. 
 

Nodoby is accepting mediocrity, but rather we have the common sense to realise that such a drastic change as we went through, CANNOT  produce perfection immediately. Slagging off the players helps no one. They are young, and learning on the job. It shows the obvious talent we have at our disposal, that with the chronic injury list, we still are competing. Most of our problems so far this season boil down to injuries robbing us of the supposed better talent, lack of cohesion due to insufficient playing time together. (this will improve), and individual errors due to naievity. (which will improve). Nottingham Forest did the same thing last season, albeit with lower quality players, it took them until January for the cohesion to greatly improve, and that was without a crippling injury list.

Our previous quality cannot include last season, so stop thinking we were better then than now. More experienced yes.

19 hours ago, Argo said:

If we're insisting on the no over 25 policy bringing back Guehi would be my preference.

Pretty experienced for his age and leader material.

Reading they are looking at Todibo

Not particularly impressed with Pochettino, but at the same time, I understand the project, so with this many moving parts and young players, it is going to take time for his vision to be seen on the pitch. 

Hopefully with James back, and Nkunku close to a return too, we will see some more complete performances in the next couple if months. 

 

With Nkunku and Carney back - if and when - and Palmer, Poch will have a jigsaw puzzle on his hands.

1 hour ago, dermott said:

With Nkunku and Carney back - if and when - and Palmer, Poch will have a jigsaw puzzle on his hands.

Yes he will. At this time, I think he has to consider dropping Gallagher to the bench and rotating him with Caicedo and Enzo. I’m not sure we’re brave enough to do that, so see them pursuing Nkunku up top with Jackson dropping. 

If they can stay fit, these will be nice problems to have. 

12 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Yes he will. At this time, I think he has to consider dropping Gallagher to the bench and rotating him with Caicedo and Enzo. I’m not sure we’re brave enough to do that, so see them pursuing Nkunku up top with Jackson dropping. 

If they can stay fit, these will be nice problems to have. 

A lot of fans won't be happy because Gallagher's desire and work rate is infectious, but we also need to think about quality on the ball and we are struggling in Gallagher's position. Gallagher is the most advanced of the 3 in midfield, so we need to look to him for creativity, which he has shown he is not capable of providing. 

6 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

A lot of fans won't be happy because Gallagher's desire and work rate is infectious, but we also need to think about quality on the ball and we are struggling in Gallagher's position. Gallagher is the most advanced of the 3 in midfield, so we need to look to him for creativity, which he has shown he is not capable of providing. 

I have a feeling Pochettino picks Nkunku on the left, and rotates Sterling and Palmer on the right.

2 hours ago, axman2526 said:

I have a feeling Pochettino picks Nkunku on the left, and rotates Sterling and Palmer on the right.

One of Caicedo, Gallagher n ezo will be dropped eventually. 

You can't drop Sterling, you lose dribbling and bring chaos to defense. Palmer has been playing so well that it is hard to drop him. You also need a st to pin defender and so Jackson will play. 

10 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

A lot of fans won't be happy because Gallagher's desire and work rate is infectious, but we also need to think about quality on the ball and we are struggling in Gallagher's position. Gallagher is the most advanced of the 3 in midfield, so we need to look to him for creativity, which he has shown he is not capable of providing. 

You can argue that he has a lot of defensive responsibilites, so he often isn't the most advanced midfielder, that could be Enzo that often positions himself further up the pitch in comparison. Gallagher has managed to becoming the jack of all trades while Enzo as the player that has more freedom to be creative and to spend energy in the final third, simply isn't producing enough end product right now.

11 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

A lot of fans won't be happy because Gallagher's desire and work rate is infectious, but we also need to think about quality on the ball and we are struggling in Gallagher's position. Gallagher is the most advanced of the 3 in midfield, so we need to look to him for creativity, which he has shown he is not capable of providing. 

We need to weight what we lose not having Gallagher there against what we gain with him in. In my opinion we desperately need him at the moment as he gives us energy and impetus, we create chances from him getting the ball back, and he isnt exactly a clogger, he creates opportunities for the other attackers and midfielders.

That might change in the future as we get players back from injury and settle into Poch`s way of playing though.

 

Edited November 10, 20232 yr by dkw

11 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

A lot of fans won't be happy because Gallagher's desire and work rate is infectious, but we also need to think about quality on the ball and we are struggling in Gallagher's position. Gallagher is the most advanced of the 3 in midfield, so we need to look to him for creativity, which he has shown he is not capable of providing. 

Gallagher has created more chances than any other Chelsea player this season.

Nkunku's influence in the attacking end is way too good for us to ignore or waste away on the bench. In theory, he'd be a great connector from midfield to striker. If we want to talk about off the ball work, Leipzig were among the best pressing teams in Europe the past couple of years with Nkunku spearheading their attack. 

What makes the situation all the more headscratching is when Carney is thrown into the mix. 

1 hour ago, cfr95 said:

Gallagher has created more chances than any other Chelsea player this season.

Cole Palmer is above him on the Premier League website for chances created and he's played less games. Gallagher has played CAM and has played every PL game this season. 

I would pick Gallagher in the big games, kind of like how I would pick Ramires in all the big games. But when you're playing the low block sides, I think we need better quality there. 

Apparently both Nkunku and Lavia are back after the international break. 

1 hour ago, Victor90 said:

Cole Palmer is above him on the Premier League website for chances created and he's played less games. Gallagher has played CAM and has played every PL game this season. 

I would pick Gallagher in the big games, kind of like how I would pick Ramires in all the big games. But when you're playing the low block sides, I think we need better quality there. 

Maybe that stat I saw was for all comps.

That's fair enough though. I don't necessarily agree but I totally understand where you're coming from.

Based on current options (and form) I would start Gallagher in pretty much every game, even if he's further back in the midfield 2 to make room for another attacker, but once more return from injury / find some form that may well change. The likes of Carney/Lavia may offer something our current options simply don't when breaking down low blocks.

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Apparently both Nkunku and Lavia are back after the international break. 

Even if they only get a few minutes to build fitness between the Newcastle game and New Years, it will be a massive boost seeing them take to the pitch.


On a related note, has much been said about Carney lately? He's not on the injury report published by the club any more. I could've sworn we were expecting him back a few weeks ago?

11 hours ago, dkw said:

We need to weight what we lose not having Gallagher there against what we gain with him in. In my opinion we desperately need him at the moment as he gives us energy and impetus, we create chances from him getting the ball back, and he isnt exactly a clogger, he creates opportunities for the other attackers and midfielders.

That might change in the future as we get players back from injury and settle into Poch`s way of playing though.

 

Every team needs a player that puts in the extra yards and work rate, but I thought that is what we were going to get with Enzo and Caicedo. Putting a 3rd player of this type in there is going to come at the cost of creativity, scoring goals and generally just making stuff happen in attacking positions. Because we have a 3 man midfield that is basically made up of work horses, it means the front three have to be our Mane, Firmino and Salah. The problem is that I don't think they are capable of it. Palmer is more of the creative type, Sterling is too inconsistent and Jackson is struggling.

Personally, I think what Gallagher provides shouldn't be needed because we should be getting that from Enzo and Caicedo. The third player in that midfield needs to be the creative type and somebody that can pop up with a few goals. 

Edited November 10, 20232 yr by Scott Harris

10 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Nkunku's influence in the attacking end is way too good for us to ignore or waste away on the bench. In theory, he'd be a great connector from midfield to striker. If we want to talk about off the ball work, Leipzig were among the best pressing teams in Europe the past couple of years with Nkunku spearheading their attack. 

What makes the situation all the more headscratching is when Carney is thrown into the mix. 

There is no way he's going to be on the bench, he walks in the starting lineup. Once he's fully fit.

Nkunku be a welcome addition, even he's playing impact sub for a few games. Almost forgot Levia is still our player, be a long way for him to come back into the team, I can't see a midfield of Enzo\Caicedo\Levia,  none of them are comfortable getting into the opposition box. There's also Carney, he will have a tough time getting back into the team if we stay away from major injury tolls.

On 10/11/2023 at 00:34, Scott Harris said:

A lot of fans won't be happy because Gallagher's desire and work rate is infectious, but we also need to think about quality on the ball and we are struggling in Gallagher's position. Gallagher is the most advanced of the 3 in midfield, so we need to look to him for creativity, which he has shown he is not capable of providing. 

I think he needs to bed in with the team around him. Takes time to work out all the new players. Think he's done really well all things considered. Just need more from him and the team. Not been as creative as I had hoped but a really good player there who doesn't deserve to be dropped imo. this team just needs to gel, take them on some team bonding exercise...