15 hours ago, JM7 said:

I think the circumstances are completely different. The squad that Potter took over was a champions league winning and Potter benefited from new manager bounce for about 10 games. After that, it was all downhill. 
 

Poch, you can see that he is doing the right things and improvements are there to be seen. The owners stripped everything back to such a low level that it’s going to take time with so many youngsters. 

Potter: 22 games, 7 wins, 1.27 PPG
Poch: 13 games, 4 wins, 1.23 PPG

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

If we're stupid enough to put Enzo on the market we'll get most if not all of our money back.

Not a fan of his as he carries zilch threat anywhere on the pitch. Can't shoot, can't unlock a defence. Would be happy to see him move on and get someone with a better engine into the midfield. He reminds me Lucas torreira.  

8 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Not a fan of his as he carries zilch threat anywhere on the pitch. Can't shoot, can't unlock a defence. Would be happy to see him move on and get someone with a better engine into the midfield. He reminds me Lucas torreira.  

He and Caicdeo are the very reason we cut through City's midfield with relative ease in the transition. We wouldn't of been able to leave our own half last year. 

25 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

To his credit he also developed those same players to the levels they've now ascended to. 

Give him the 2 years and let's see where we are at. 

 

Yeah I know, but what I mean Is it's unfair for fans to criticise Poch for his short time here, as well as given the players he has at his disposal. He doesn't even have a player who can score 20+ goals a season. The below reading is abysmal considering the money spent on Havertz and Lukaku. It took an academy graduate in Tammy to get us at least 15 goals in a single season since Costa left. We never replaced our two most influential players in Hazard and Costa. It's no surprise we haven't sniffed the title since Costa, Fabregas and Hazard left. 

 

Last season our highest scorers in the league were as follows:

Havertz (7)

Sterling (6)

Felix (4)

Mount and Gallagher (3 goals each)

 

2021/22 season 

Mount (11)

Havertz (8)

Lukaku (8)

 

2020/21 season, our top scorers were as follows: 

 

Jorginho (7)

Tammy Abraham (6) 

Mount (6)

Werner (6)

 

2019/20 season, top scorers: 

Tammy Abraham (15) 

Willian (9)

Pulisic (9)

Giroud (8) 

Mount (9)

 

2018/19 season: 

E.Hazard (16) 

Pedro (8)

RLC (6)

Higuain & Morata (5 goals each)

 

Do we see a pattern yet? 

Edited November 27, 20232 yr by enigma

13 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Not a fan of his as he carries zilch threat anywhere on the pitch. Can't shoot, can't unlock a defence. Would be happy to see him move on and get someone with a better engine into the midfield. He reminds me Lucas torreira.  

The trouble around him only makes those metrics even more impressive.

As for shooting, first he has had some good shots that's were inches away or forced world class saves from the (like Saturday) and even if he didn't, goals are not even close to being the major requirement for his type of player, you may aswell critisise Silva for his near two year goal drought while you're at it.

2 minutes ago, enigma said:

Yeah I know, but what I mean Is it's unfair for fans to criticise Poch for his short time here, as well as given the players he has at his disposal. He doesn't even have a player who can score 20+ goals a season. The below reading is abysmal considering the money spent on Havertz and Lukaku. It took an academy graduate in Tammy to get us at least 15 goals in a single season since Costa left. We never replaced our two most influential players in Hazard and Costa. It's no surprise we haven't sniffed the title since Costa, Fabregas and Hazard left. 

 

Last season our highest scorers in the league were as follows:

Havertz (7)

Sterling (6)

Felix (4)

Mount and Gallagher (3 goals each)

 

2021/22 season 

Mount (11)

Havertz (8)

Lukaku (8)

 

2020/21 season, our top scorers were as follows: 

 

Jorginho (7)

Tammy Abraham (6) 

Mount (6)

Werner (6)

 

2019/20 season, top scorers: 

Tammy Abraham (15) 

Willian (9)

Pulisic (9)

Giroud (8) 

Mount (9)

 

2018/19 season: 

E.Hazard (16) 

Pedro (8)

RLC (6)

Higuain & Morata (5 goals each)

 

Do we see a pattern yet? 

I mean Jackson is currently at 6 goals and if he was on penalty duty he'd be likely on 9 or 10. 

1 minute ago, Sconnie Blue said:

I mean Jackson is currently at 6 goals and if he was on penalty duty he'd be likely on 9 or 10. 

The fact that Jorginho was our top scorer in 2020/21 season with 7 goals just shows the mess we've been in for many seasons now with finding an efficient and top class goal scorer. Even Aston Villa have had Watkins. Newcastle have had Wilson. Brentford have had Toney. The fact those clubs have had better strikers than we have in that time is abysmal. 

30 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Potter: 22 games, 7 wins, 1.27 PPG
Poch: 13 games, 4 wins, 1.23 PPG

And yet I'm enjoying much more the football that we've been playing this season than that we endured under Potter.

16 minutes ago, RMH said:

And yet I'm enjoying much more the football that we've been playing this season than that we endured under Potter.

Build up play improvement (and when I say improvement I mean we are amongst the best in the league) make things a lot more tolerable in comparison to Potter. 

On 25/11/2023 at 19:34, Sconnie Blue said:

Then what is the plan here? If Poch doesn't rate them nor trusts them, what are we doing? Pep managed to get underperformers out of the club almost overnight, which has helped them sustain their success.  See Nolito, Danilo, Fernan Torres, Angelino, Eric Garcia, Bravo, Diaz, Iheanacho, etc, etc, etc. 

Loan or get rid. We cannot have Chilwell at LW and shifting Gallagher at RW so Palmer can play CAM. 

 

Transfer window ain't open for another 5 weeks, we don't know who's going in January. 

Would've been crazy for Poch to be shifting new signings before they kicked a competitive ball under his management. 

Theres less knee jerks in a full show of the Moulin Rouge than this forum, absolutely laughable.

41 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Transfer window ain't open for another 5 weeks, we don't know who's going in January. 

Would've been crazy for Poch to be shifting new signings before they kicked a competitive ball under his management. 

I think its fair to question Poch and what the actual plan is with these 2 players in particular. We saw Chilwell get a run at LW over Mudryk and Gallagher continues to shift into RW to allow Palmer more space through the channel to affect our attack. Madueke is an afterthought until its throw the kitchen sink time. 

 

1 hour ago, Argo said:

The trouble around him only makes those metrics even more impressive.

As for shooting, first he has had some good shots that's were inches away or forced world class saves from the (like Saturday) and even if he didn't, goals are not even close to being the major requirement for his type of player, you may aswell critisise Silva for his near two year goal drought while you're at it.

With all that you don't really see him dictating any match ever since he switched from being at the base of the midfield to this new role.

Sure he gets all the benefits from having a more free role but he's not solving any match nor is he offering a system or some buffer for any kind of stability. I still believe that this change hurt him more, yes he is more free to pass the ball around but we don't really look like an organized team, it's not even about his shooting it's about just how much effort is being translated into a successful result.

I said it before the season started and I can without any problems say it again, Enzo needs a player in front of him in order to run the matches, not a player behind him. We signed Caicedo and even Gallagher is doing a lot of defensive work so in practice Enzo hurt himself by putting on that number 8, he should have stayed as a direct upgrade on Jorginho at the base of the midfield and we would be winning more matches.

 

3 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

Well, I fully expect you to be screaming for Poch to be sacked within the next few weeks. You're probably one of those who thought singing Fu*k Sarri ball on way to a top four finish and the Europa league was cool... knock yourself out, im done with the manager merrigoround and fans simply not taking on board that we are no longer Roman's hire and fire club and our new owners are trying to do things differently.

Dont rate De Zerbi in the same way I struggle to see what Enzo brings to our midfield. Think Brighton will struggle the rest of the season and we finish above them. when they lose they loose big, concede goals and have struggled for form recently.

If you had both managers available again at the start of the season, 90 percent would pick Poch. We got the right man for the job, give him a minimum of a season to get his ideas across. Jeezers... 

Hahah calm down mate, did not say for a second I want Pochettino gone, nor that he should be replaced by De Zerbi. Just pointed that IMHO this squad is tailor made for a manager in the mould of De Zerbi. This squad can play high pressing, attacking football if the manager wants this. 

Was only a reply expressing my opinion on why this squad would not be a disaster should an attacking manager be at helm. 

This idea that after a few bad results we change coach is just plain silly. This isn’t 2012 anymore that formula doesn’t work as we are not the only big dog in the yard !!

4 hours ago, Argo said:

If we're stupid enough to put Enzo on the market we'll get most if not all of our money back.

We won't, but I don't see him sticking around for a midtable club year after year. 

He is a world cup winner who would be snapped up by City or Barca.

Quote

Mauricio Pochettino's threat to cancel Chelsea's days off after their 4-1 defeat by Newcastle appeared hollow after their stars enjoyed trips away from the club's Cobham training ground.  

Mykhailo Mudryk shared an Instagram video from a helicopter while Nicolas Jackson linked up with his former Villarreal team-mates in Spain. 

That's despite Pochettino claiming they would 'train early in the morning and not have a day off' after they were dismantled in the second half at St James' Park. 

 

'We were talking in the dressing room after the game, we should go directly to the hotel and sleep, and start to train early in the morning and not have a day off,' said Pochettino. 

 

21 minutes ago, mojo said:

 

The players have been rewarded for the Newcastle display with a second day off training today as well.

Apparently they were given 2 days off.
 

Won’t give two flying sh*ts if we beat both Brighton and United. 

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Apparently they were given 2 days off.
 

Won’t give two flying sh*ts if we beat both Brighton and United. 

Big IF there mate.

With our woeful record of late at the Bridge and vs Brighton, plus our terrible record at OT, did you think we can manage 1 win nevermind 2?

Its not results or even form where the questions on Poch arise its in the approach to winning and the team selections.

Its a completely new and generally young team this year and so that makes the football fun and exciting.

But in my view Poch keeps missing tricks and has been too defensive from the start of the season. Sure there are reasons for that but I don't think its the right balance.

We are not as defensive as when Chilwell was left wing but there are still only 3 attackers, one of whom, Palmer has no pace to him at all, and once he loses the ball offers little prospect of getting it back. Further Palmer's outside shooting has so far been pants. Sorry folks but that's the truth, so far.

I don't see why Mudryck couldn't be doing what Gordon does for Newcastle or Doku for City. 

Of the three midfielders, none of them has turned out to be much of a goal scorer, Enzo least of all. Enzo is still being played too far forward. Caicedo and Gallagher have more goals in them but not showing it this season. If Gallagher can't get 8-10 goals then he doesn't have a long term place in the season either.

In the defensive line up, I get its debatable but I dont think Silva is worth his place. Equally why isn't Colwill playing in his natural position? And then Maatsen should be regularly coming on as left back sub or even starting. He should certainly start there this weekend in my view. Disasi and Colwill may not be world beaters but I think they could form a pretty solid defensive centre back pairing.

So one of the midfielders needs to make way for an additional goal scoring or goal creating  threat, or at least that's the way I see it. Colwill and Disasi centre of defence, Mudryck  get the first 60 minutes five games in a row. Maatsen gets to play in his proper position.

Poch has had some good performances from the 11 he puts on the field but I think the squad has more to offer than he has so far achieved. Equally he is still learning about the squad as well. I don't find him convincing but he's far from terrible, just average.


 

Edited November 28, 20232 yr by ozboy

18 hours ago, Argo said:

If we're stupid enough to put Enzo on the market we'll get most if not all of our money back.

No chance for me. Especially if/when Enzo push to leave after its been established we not likely to be back in the Champions League anytime soon. And for being the worlds most expensive midfielder he's generally been underwhelming and not as influential as you and everyone else had hoped.

 

 

16 hours ago, petre ispirescu said:

Hahah calm down mate, did not say for a second I want Pochettino gone, nor that he should be replaced by De Zerbi. Just pointed that IMHO this squad is tailor made for a manager in the mould of De Zerbi. This squad can play high pressing, attacking football if the manager wants this. 

Was only a reply expressing my opinion on why this squad would not be a disaster should an attacking manager be at helm. 

Seems strange that you dont think Poch is an attacking/ pressing manager when that's what all his teams have done. Southampton/ Spurs/ PSG. I also find it strange that you point out De Zerbi would do better with this set of players... so, my opinion is that you'll be calling for poch out should results go against the team, you'll probably be on here purring like a cat when brighton get a result against us and you'll say something along the lines of isn't De Zerbi a great coach...  

 

16 hours ago, Gol15 said:

With all that you don't really see him dictating any match ever since he switched from being at the base of the midfield to this new role.

Sure he gets all the benefits from having a more free role but he's not solving any match nor is he offering a system or some buffer for any kind of stability. I still believe that this change hurt him more, yes he is more free to pass the ball around but we don't really look like an organized team, it's not even about his shooting it's about just how much effort is being translated into a successful result.

I said it before the season started and I can without any problems say it again, Enzo needs a player in front of him in order to run the matches, not a player behind him. We signed Caicedo and even Gallagher is doing a lot of defensive work so in practice Enzo hurt himself by putting on that number 8, he should have stayed as a direct upgrade on Jorginho at the base of the midfield and we would be winning more matches.

 

People slowly working out he's not actually much good. He stepped into a side that was god damn appalling last year and made us look and him good, but he offers nothing on the pitch going forward or defensively. It looks to me like he's thrown his rattles out of the pram a little when he was told he wasn't playing in his preferred position further up the pitch. 

Im really not sure Barca can afford him, nor do I think city would be in for him. Think we may have a problem here unless he finds serious form that justifies 100 million quid. No comparison between him and Rice at the minute. One looks world class, the other is shining the boots of world class players. 

 

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

No chance for me. Especially if/when Enzo push to leave after its been established we not likely to be back in the Champions League anytime soon. And for being the worlds most expensive midfielder he's generally been underwhelming and not as influential as you and everyone else had hoped.

 

 

The fact that this is considered underwhelming kind of proves my point. If we could get the money we did for Havertz and Mount after looking awful for 12 and 18 months respectively then I will be absolutely stunned if we had any problems getting offers for Enzo.

And this is while not actually playing his best role (deeper 6 as @Gol15 said).

In fairness i do get he needs to be held to high standards due to the price tag I can accept he's fallen a little below THAT level but under no reasonable performance metric he has been average or worse.