12 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

But Hazard no longer plays for us so no I wouldn't start Sterling ahead of Hazard. I wouldn't start Ster,ing ahead of Robben either. But on what Mudryk has delivered so far he wouldn't get in ahead of Malouda, if we're making nonsensical comparisons to retired players.

Perhaps to validate your comment you can draw some illustrative comparisons between Mudryk and early Hazard for us. As a starter the below is from Wiki re Hazards first year

On 21 February 2013, Hazard came on as a substitute against Sparta Prague and scored an individual goal in stoppage time, to send Chelsea through to the last 16 on a 2–1 aggregate score.^[122][123] Again Hazard came off the bench to make an impact for Chelsea, scoring a goal and providing an assist to Ramires, as the team came back 2–0 down to salvage a 2–2 draw against Manchester United in the quarter-finals of the 2012–13 FA Cup on 10 March, setting up a replay.^[124] On 17 March, Hazard put in a man of the match performance in a 2–0 home victory over West Ham United, assisting Lampard's 200th Chelsea goal, then scoring a solo goal.^[125] On 11 May, at Villa Park, Hazard was the provider of Lampard's brace against Aston Villa, which enabled Lampard to break Bobby Tambling's all-time goal scoring record for Chelsea. However an injury picked up in the same game ruled him out of the Europa League final.^[126] Hazard ended his debut campaign at Chelsea with 13 goals in all competitions

Listen, the premier league is way more tougher today than in the past. Also Mudryk is not exactly like Hazard, he may not be as good as Hazard, but he is also good. Also, the managers have not been helping Mudryk, the team needs to be balanced for him to play well.

You cannot be playing a player like Gallagher who is not creative as no 8 behind Mudryk, he won't play well. The managers have not been helping him. Palmer as 8, Mudryk as 11, and Madueke as 7, will be ok.

Mudryk came last season when the team had problems, so you cannot be using the stats of Mudryk now to judge him. The team had problems last season. The team needs to be ok for Mudryk to play well.

Mudryk is better than Sterling.

2 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

I'm not sure that's totally accurate Bob. If anything Mudryk and Madueke are not getting in because Sterling has been playing there. And for someone who will readily admit that I have previously criticised him as a one trick pony, I would also be the first to admit he has been proving us wrong and his form of late has shown that he should be starting ahead of either of the other two.

I don't think it is about Sterling.  Imo Madueke n Mudryk should not be here, watching them play is like watching academy kids. Yet they are our 1st option from the bench. 

I thought Sterling was awful against Newcastle, should we drop him for the next game? Yes. Can we? Nope. 

7 minutes ago, hephzibah said:

Listen, the premier league is way more tougher today than in the past. Also Mudryk is not exactly like Hazard, he may not be as good as Hazard, but he is also good. Also, the managers have not been helping Mudryk, the team needs to be balanced for him to play well.

You cannot be playing a player like Gallagher who is not creative as no 8 behind Mudryk, he won't play well. The managers have not been helping him. Palmer as 8, Mudryk as 11, and Madueke as 7, will be ok.

Mudryk came last season when the team had problems, so you cannot be using the stats of Mudryk now to judge him. The team had problems last season. The team needs to be ok for Mudryk to play well.

Mudryk is better than Sterling.

I would have accepted all of your points until your last sentence.

Perhaps you should have started your last sentence with "In my opinion" because where we are today, and today is what matters the most, Sterling clearly is contributing more and performing better, hence why he has been playing. I suspect that should he get injured or his levels drop then Mudryk or Madueke will get a chance. The question will then be whether they can take it, regardless of the opposition,  the players they are playing with, the tactics, the weather, the distance travelled or the schedule of matches. In fact regardless of all of the contributing factors that every player has to cope with. Let's hope your faith will be realised, after all everyone connected with the c,ub, including the manager, wants them to succeed.

12 minutes ago, Bob stark said:

I don't think it is about Sterling.  Imo Madueke n Mudryk should not be here, watching them play is like watching academy kids. Yet they are our 1st option from the bench. 

I thought Sterling was awful against Newcastle, should we drop him for the next game? Yes. Can we? Nope. 

Agreed on all points

40 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

But Hazard no longer plays for us so no I wouldn't start Sterling ahead of Hazard. I wouldn't start Ster,ing ahead of Robben either. But on what Mudryk has delivered so far he wouldn't get in ahead of Malouda, if we're making nonsensical comparisons to retired players.

Perhaps to validate your comment you can draw some illustrative comparisons between Mudryk and early Hazard for us. As a starter the below is from Wiki re Hazards first year

On 21 February 2013, Hazard came on as a substitute against Sparta Prague and scored an individual goal in stoppage time, to send Chelsea through to the last 16 on a 2–1 aggregate score.^[122][123] Again Hazard came off the bench to make an impact for Chelsea, scoring a goal and providing an assist to Ramires, as the team came back 2–0 down to salvage a 2–2 draw against Manchester United in the quarter-finals of the 2012–13 FA Cup on 10 March, setting up a replay.^[124] On 17 March, Hazard put in a man of the match performance in a 2–0 home victory over West Ham United, assisting Lampard's 200th Chelsea goal, then scoring a solo goal.^[125] On 11 May, at Villa Park, Hazard was the provider of Lampard's brace against Aston Villa, which enabled Lampard to break Bobby Tambling's all-time goal scoring record for Chelsea. However an injury picked up in the same game ruled him out of the Europa League final.^[126] Hazard ended his debut campaign at Chelsea with 13 goals in all competitions

Hazard was not good for us because he scored goals for us, he was good because he created chances for the team. Mudryk will create chances for the team. It is not about the number of goals you score, but how you help the team.

Mudryk is more creative than Sterling. That is what the team needs.

Absolutely sh*te, Absolutely freezing, Absolutely miserable. 

 

14 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I would have accepted all of your points until your last sentence.

Perhaps you should have started your last sentence with "In my opinion" because where we are today, and today is what matters the most, Sterling clearly is contributing more and performing better, hence why he has been playing. I suspect that should he get injured or his levels drop then Mudryk or Madueke will get a chance. The question will then be whether they can take it, regardless of the opposition,  the players they are playing with, the tactics, the weather, the distance travelled or the schedule of matches. In fact regardless of all of the contributing factors that every player has to cope with. Let's hope your faith will be realised, after all everyone connected with the c,ub, including the manager, wants them to succeed.

Thanks.

2 hours ago, hephzibah said:

He shouldn't, I see Mudryk like the Hazard of those days. I won't start Sterling ahead of Hazard.

I'm not even sure Mudryk is better than Hazard now.

Maybe Kylian Hazard.

Edited November 26, 20232 yr by Whats_The_Mata?

What a difference between the performance against City and what we showed yesterday.. 

Actually there are no words to describe the disappointment.. 

We played  crap. Missed Caicedo.  To me the game confirmed that Palmer is not a winger, far too slow c. He needs to -lay  in the centre   Secondly Silva is getting past it. We need to move past him. We may play worse for a bit without him but we have to move forward. 

Also I don’t see why Badiashile stars in front of Colwill. 

4 hours ago, hephzibah said:

 

Mudryk is better at running faster than Sterling.

Fixed.

 

On every other level Sterling leaves him behind

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Absolutely sh*te, Absolutely freezing, Absolutely miserable. 

 

Was it cold? It can be very grim Up North.  Jawdees are friendly though.

Overall at least we are involved in playing football again. Last season we were totally constipated under Potter.  Now we have taken "taken the foot off the gas" and and we are playing free flowing football and the results will inevitably be a little chaotic.  But this is maybe better?  4-4. 1-4. We need to score. When we are playing free flowing football like this it is easier to see where we can improve.

There is no [little] experience in this side. We need some bite. We need some leadership. All our midfield players and strikers are good. They are skilled and talented players. Maybe they are not all generational talent. . .lol.  What we are missing is 2 players with experience - maybe a striker role that Nkunku can be? And some other bloke that we currently do not have in the squad. And we have to keep Thiago in the squad until he is at least 50. He is older than Rooney and if you put pictures of them side by side, well that scouse gene pool is a little disturbing.

For me, it is fun to watch our young team develop and as they 'go for it' there will be setbacks. This was one of those days. I think maybe Palmer plays in the Gallagher role and Chukwuemeka comes into the midfield? Any news on Lavia?

31 minutes ago, TheCeleryKing said:

Was it cold? It can be very grim Up North.  Jawdees are friendly though.

Overall at least we are involved in playing football again. Last season we were totally constipated under Potter.  Now we have taken "taken the foot off the gas" and and we are playing free flowing football and the results will inevitably be a little chaotic.  But this is maybe better?  4-4. 1-4. We need to score. When we are playing free flowing football like this it is easier to see where we can improve.

There is no [little] experience in this side. We need some bite. We need some leadership. All our midfield players and strikers are good. They are skilled and talented players. Maybe they are not all generational talent. . .lol.  What we are missing is 2 players with experience - maybe a striker role that Nkunku can be? And some other bloke that we currently do not have in the squad. And we have to keep Thiago in the squad until he is at least 50. He is older than Rooney and if you put pictures of them side by side, well that scouse gene pool is a little disturbing.

For me, it is fun to watch our young team develop and as they 'go for it' there will be setbacks. This was one of those days. I think maybe Palmer plays in the Gallagher role and Chukwuemeka comes into the midfield? Any news on Lavia?

Funny you mention Potter. Having seen more of this game it reminded me of last seasons trip to Brighton, battered by a better side who wanted it more. That one was where Potters side fell apart and never recovered. Ironically Pochs Chelsea face Brighton next.

4 hours ago, dkw said:

Absolutely sh*te, Absolutely freezing, Absolutely miserable. 

 

Did you stay till the end DKW? Was it only Broja and Silva who came over to applaude the away fans?

13 hours ago, Bob stark said:

Why do they deserve to play? 

Madueke has struggled to show anything. 

Mudyrk need to stop playing as if he is a superstar. 

You see this again and again. 

 

Point out where I said they deserve to play? 

Do youth players deserve to play when they've not even made a debut? No. You take risks and give players a chance, the manager doesn't have to. He sees things we don't, and sometimes managers can be wrong. 

I would like to see us make use of Mudryk and Madueke more, that's all there is to it really. 

24 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Point out where I said they deserve to play? 

Do youth players deserve to play when they've not even made a debut? No. You take risks and give players a chance, the manager doesn't have to. He sees things we don't, and sometimes managers can be wrong. 

I would like to see us make use of Mudryk and Madueke more, that's all there is to it really. 

Comes down more for me what our aims are.

CL or qualification for Europe? Ridiculous.

So the league is done. Save Sterling and Silva for the cups, never know, luck of the draw and on the day. Play Mudryk and Madueke et AL in the league. See if they have something about them or not.

Either loan or sell for me. If Poch doesn't trust them than its a moot argument. Expecting CL qualification with 2 players who hardly have any top flight experience is just daft. This isn't even considering Palmer and Carney as well. 

Here are the extended highlights:

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=gyuKaA6Io6o

 

Don't all rush to thank me though, one from @dkwis all I ask :)

I thin the key word in this discussion is "effort". I see it from Gallagher and Sterling, but rarely see it from Mudryk and almost never see it from Madueke. Maybe its the same in training, which is why Poch doesn't pick them.

16 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Did you stay till the end DKW? Was it only Broja and Silva who came over to applaude the away fans?

Always stay, even in that freezing, lofty sh*thole. No idea who came over to applaud, I was just angry and wanting to get the hell out of there.

7 hours ago, coombsie said:

I thin the key word in this discussion is "effort". I see it from Gallagher and Sterling, but rarely see it from Mudryk and almost never see it from Madueke. Maybe its the same in training, which is why Poch doesn't pick them.

Agreed. By comparison a player that we were linked with last summer (Anthony Gordon) is definitely not lacking in that area. He may have his limitations too, but at present he looks like money better spent when compared to Mudryk.

8 hours ago, coombsie said:

I thin the key word in this discussion is "effort". I see it from Gallagher and Sterling, but rarely see it from Mudryk and almost never see it from Madueke. Maybe its the same in training, which is why Poch doesn't pick them.

what do you mean by effort? Every player put in effort when they play, it will be disrespectful to say players don't put effort when they play. When we had Fabregas, how much effort does he put when he is playing football? But he is helpful to the team.

Don't take an inferior player over a superior player. That is what we are telling Chelsea fans. Gallagher is by no way better than Caicedo, Enzo, Palmer etc, these are the guys that should be playing in the Midfield, not Gallagher. All these guys also put in effort. We have no excuse to be using Gallagher. 

All our players put in effort, Palmer, Enzo, Caicedo, Madueke, Mudryk etc all put in effort when they play. And they are more talented than Gallagher and Sterling. Therefore they should be starting ahead of Gallagher and Sterling.

This is a generation that wants an inferior player and yet complain when the team is not doing well. Also, they put the blame of the inferior players on the better players. You have to ask yourself why Chelsea fans are complaining about Enzo, Caicedo, Mudryk and Madueke. 

You don't want good players but you want inferior players. How will the team do well?

On 27/11/2023 at 14:43, hephzibah said:

what do you mean by effort? Every player put in effort when they play, it will be disrespectful to say players don't put effort when they play. When we had Fabregas, how much effort does he put when he is playing football? But he is helpful to the team.

Don't take an inferior player over a superior player. That is what we are telling Chelsea fans. Gallagher is by no way better than Caicedo, Enzo, Palmer etc, these are the guys that should be playing in the Midfield, not Gallagher. All these guys also put in effort. We have no excuse to be using Gallagher. 

All our players put in effort, Palmer, Enzo, Caicedo, Madueke, Mudryk etc all put in effort when they play. And they are more talented than Gallagher and Sterling. Therefore they should be starting ahead of Gallagher and Sterling.

This is a generation that wants an inferior player and yet complain when the team is not doing well. Also, they put the blame of the inferior players on the better players. You have to ask yourself why Chelsea fans are complaining about Enzo, Caicedo, Mudryk and Madueke. 

You don't want good players but you want inferior players. How will the team do well?

No-one really played well against Newcastle. But if you have actually watched us this season, you will have seen that Gallagher has out-performed Enzo and Caicedo more often than not and at this point he has been the pick of the midfield players despite the ludicrous £100m + price tag of the other two. 

19 hours ago, Nibs said:

No-one really played well against Newcastle. But if you have actually watched us this season, you will have seen that Gallagher has out-performed Enzo and Caicedo more often than not and at this point he has been the pick of the midfield players despite the ludicrous £100m + price tag of the other two. 

 

You never see what others do, you only see what Gallagher do. There is a reason why the market value of Enzo and Caicedo last summer was 100m plus last summer, and many clubs didn't want to buy Gallagher last summer. I'm sure the market value of Gallagher last summer was around 30m