6 minutes ago, coco said:

 

Then why did Nat break into our first team last season ?

Cannot really answer for him as far as the maths is concerned, but I would assume he is counting Nat's games in Italy and also his previous time with Watford.

Young players can't develop unless they get First team football,

Here's an excerpt from a post I made in the Lukaku thread. It's relevant here ;

Saw a stat about Bakayoko playing less mins than Chalobah up till last season but now we are rumored to be ready to spend big on him to give him a position Chalobah should naturally ascend into. It is soul crushing. For me as a fan and I imagine what it'd be like for the players. No surprise about Solanke's stance. And he will be first of several in the near future among the youth. We've already seen it with squad players like lukaku(the irony), de Bryne, Mata, etc.  We are on a long winding road to nowhere.  I love optimism but do we really think in the next 3 years Conte will be our manager? Not happening. The management doesn't allow for that. Conte's style and temperament doesn't allow for that. Our policy of the last decade of chopping and changing managers worked but the need for a real footballing policy that allows managers/coaches to come in and succeed needs to be instituted. I'm not saying don't buy expensive players, but not when you have such an expensive and expansive youth set up. Integrate those players with one or at most 2 overpriced top players. But at the end of the day what do I know. I'm just a fan that doesn't get the full picture and isn't in a position to make such calls. 

Can anybody show me one example of a Chelsea youngster that came through the ranks, was sold or released by the club and became a world class star somewhere else in the last 10-15 years?

Edited July 14, 20179 yr by abramovich

1 hour ago, coco said:

 

Then why did Nat break into our first team last season ?

Probably because we couldn't get Nainggollan in the summer and we needed more depth in midfield. Same reason Conte now wanted to tie him to a new long term contract, to be a safe backup option "in case sh*t happens". From the manager's point of view it's a good deal because he's got the team's interests in mind, but for for Nate, it was the right decision to move on.

Edited July 14, 20179 yr by abramovich

43 minutes ago, abramovich said:

Can anybody show me one example of a Chelsea youngster that came through the ranks, was sold or released by the club and became a world class star somewhere else in the last 10-15 years?

You are only as good as the players you are surrounded by. When La Masia was producing Fabregas, Messi, Pedro, Busquets etc, they were playing with your Deco, Xavi & Ronaldo. Might be wrong but didn’t Yaya Toure leave Barcelona because the club’s strategy leaned towards giving your Busquets more game time? In recent times when Barca has shifted toward making more expensive external purchases like Vermalen, Mathieu etc who have come in on bigger wages, the club hasn’t been as successful.

I feel Solanke might be close to what a true test of a judgement on the quality of our youth academy. He has gone to a top 4 club with a manager renowned for developing young players, and will be surrounded by quality players. 

 

21 minutes ago, ducavis said:

I feel Solanke might be close to what a true test of a judgement on the quality of our youth academy. He has gone to a top 4 club with a manager renowned for developing young players, and will be surrounded by quality players.

He might not even make the bench ... he must surely be behind Firmino, Mane, Salah, Sturridge, Ings and Origi in the pecking order for forwards ... ?

Understandable why Nate wanted to leave. I can actually see him playing himself into the England squad for the world cup, as there is a shortage of holding midfielders, and Southgate and Holland obviously know him very well. 

I'm not sure he was ever going to be good enough to be better than a squad player here. Hopefully he proves his class at Watford and we get him on a buy back if he reaches the required level.

With regards squad depth and homegrown quotas. Musonda has to stay now, and I think baker might aswell. 

Also kenedy will probably stick around as he still counts as an u21. 

Also if we are really looking short, I'm sure we would register only 1 of Cabellero and Eduardo, and it will free up another foreign spot for a new signing or someone like van ginkel. 

Anyways Good luck chalobah, really nice kid, hopefully he goes on to have a good career.

Edited July 14, 20179 yr by big blue

1 hour ago, abramovich said:

Can anybody show me one example of a Chelsea youngster that came through the ranks, was sold or released by the club and became a world class star somewhere else in the last 10-15 years?

That depends on your definition of "world class". By the way, how many world class players do we have in our squad currently? Hazard, Tibo, Kante? Thats it? 

But I can surely name a few players who would walk into the first 11 or atleast would be great squad players: Lukaku, Bertrand, KDB. Another point is that this generation of youth players are probably the best in our history. We have/had some real talents. Ake, andreas, Nat, Musonda could easily play a good part for us.

 

1 hour ago, didierforever said:

That depends on your definition of "world class". By the way, how many world class players do we have in our squad currently? Hazard, Tibo, Kante? Thats it? 

But I can surely name a few players who would walk into the first 11 or atleast would be great squad players: Lukaku, Bertrand, KDB. Another point is that this generation of youth players are probably the best in our history. We have/had some real talents. Ake, andreas, Nat, Musonda could easily play a good part for us.

Lukaku and KDB are not our youth setup graduates. They were just players we bought when they were young. Lukaku wouldn't become the player he's now if he hadn't left. I still wouldn't want him as our starting striker, btw, too many flaws. Selling KDB was Mourinho's mistake, he wasn't the 'tracking back' type. Either way, neither is a product of our youth academy.

Bertrand isn't world class and never will be.

I knew he was going, only surprise is he would sign for a club like Watford. We are really going to have problems meeting the HG quota, and another mess up for not offering him a contract earlier. We are really going to have troubles attracting youth talents with our selling record.

2 hours ago, ducavis said:

You are only as good as the players you are surrounded by. When La Masia was producing Fabregas, Messi, Pedro, Busquets etc, they were playing with your Deco, Xavi & Ronaldo. Might be wrong but didn’t Yaya Toure leave Barcelona because the club’s strategy leaned towards giving your Busquets more game time? In recent times when Barca has shifted toward making more expensive external purchases like Vermalen, Mathieu etc who have come in on bigger wages, the club hasn’t been as successful.

I feel Solanke might be close to what a true test of a judgement on the quality of our youth academy. He has gone to a top 4 club with a manager renowned for developing young players, and will be surrounded by quality players. 

 

That's a bit of a stretch. Just because you train with top quality players, doesn't mean you're going to become one. The generation of La Masia graduates that became the spine of that dominant Barca side just happened to be a bunch of exceptionally talented footballers who as fate would have it, all came through round the same time. Of course, La Masia deserves the highest praise for recognizing those youngsters and developing them into major players but the timing of it was just a coincidence and a slice of good luck for the Catalans. Their current state is a good proof of it, you don't see new Messis or Iniestas coming up recently, do you? More like Sergio Roberto and Delofeu. What happened? Was training with Messi, Iniesta and Busquetz less effective for their current youngsters than what Ronaldinho and Deco managed in their time?

44 minutes ago, abramovich said:

 

Lukaku and KDB are not our youth setup graduates. They were just players we bought when they were young. Lukaku wouldn't become the player he's now if he hadn't left. I still wouldn't want him as our starting striker, btw, too many flaws. Selling KDB was Mourinho's mistake, he wasn't the 'tracking back' type. Either way, neither is a product of our youth academy.

Bertrand isn't world class and never will be.

Chelsea "youngster" and "youth products" are 2 very different things.

Sergie Roberto is not world class either, but a vital part of the barca squad.

4 hours ago, abramovich said:

Can anybody show me one example of a Chelsea youngster that came through the ranks, was sold or released by the club and became a world class star somewhere else in the last 10-15 years?

Not that straight forward and ignores the fact that a players vital years in terms of development happens at a period we haven't had a great record of, with things like continuous/pointless loans, leaving the players effectively playing catch up to get to the standards they would have most likely already been at or surpassed with regular football at other clubs. 

Not blaming the club for every youth that failed to make it though, some just weren't that good to begin with. 

I do hope we have a buy back clause. Just dont know what on earth the board was thinking... Ake, Chalobah..f**k sake

6 hours ago, abramovich said:

Well, there you go. Everyone can relax now, the club did all they could, really.

 

15 minutes ago, Andreas said:

I do hope we have a buy back clause. Just dont know what on earth the board was thinking... Ake, Chalobah..f**k sake

 

Well. bollocks.

 

Do hope we dont end up seeing him for United or City in a few years.

6 hours ago, abister1 said:

Here's an excerpt from a post I made in the Lukaku thread. It's relevant here ;

Saw a stat about Bakayoko playing less mins than Chalobah up till last season but now we are rumored to be ready to spend big on him to give him a position Chalobah should naturally ascend into. It is soul crushing. For me as a fan and I imagine what it'd be like for the players. No surprise about Solanke's stance. And he will be first of several in the near future among the youth. We've already seen it with squad players like lukaku(the irony), de Bryne, Mata, etc.  We are on a long winding road to nowhere.  I love optimism but do we really think in the next 3 years Conte will be our manager? Not happening. The management doesn't allow for that. Conte's style and temperament doesn't allow for that. Our policy of the last decade of chopping and changing managers worked but the need for a real footballing policy that allows managers/coaches to come in and succeed needs to be instituted. I'm not saying don't buy expensive players, but not when you have such an expensive and expansive youth set up. Integrate those players with one or at most 2 overpriced top players. But at the end of the day what do I know. I'm just a fan that doesn't get the full picture and isn't in a position to make such calls. 

Chalobah played at a similar level club to what Bakayoko did and didn't break in the team, if he was as good as Baka he would have.

16 minutes ago, coco said:

 

 

To be fair, Sky Sources is about as reliable nowadays as Daily Star.

2 hours ago, didierforever said:

Chelsea "youngster" and "youth products" are 2 very different things.

Sergie Roberto is not world class either, but a vital part of the barca squad.

Pretty sure I read somewhere that (some) Barca fans don't want Sergi Roberto in the team, he's considered a weak link and they've just bought Semedo?

Edited July 14, 20179 yr by the special one

3 hours ago, didierforever said:

Chelsea "youngster" and "youth products" are 2 very different things.

Sergie Roberto is not world class either, but a vital part of the barca squad.

In my original post I said  "Chelsea youngster that came through the ranks", meaning players that came from our own academy. Lukaku and KDB aren't Chelsea youth and never were.

1 hour ago, Argo said:

Chalobah played at a similar level club to what Bakayoko did and didn't break in the team, if he was as good as Baka he would have.

 

No that's not right at all, Napoli brought Chalobah in as cover and that's how he was used. Why would they bring him into their first team and develop him for us? That's our job!

Gutted that Chalobah is gone, yet another example of no faith being shown in our youngsters and the brick wall they hit when impressing on loan or in the youth team, we just don't have a clue how to intergrate them. Would take him over Matic every day of the week.

8 hours ago, abramovich said:

Can anybody show me one example of a Chelsea youngster that came through the ranks, was sold or released by the club and became a world class star somewhere else in the last 10-15 years?

I would say Bertrand. Might not be at a top club (yet) but defo made a good career and still can get a big move imo. Probably Liverpool.

While you have a point, I am a believer that if you play with top class players, the player will improve. If we bought Dele Alli from MK Dons, he would still be an U21 player and no one would even be mentioning him as a top class player. Iwobi who imo is a good player but looks a lot better of a player than he actually is because he is playing with likes of Sanchez and Ozil whereas if Iwobi went out on loan to a much inferior team, I reckon he would struggle and would not exactly be that good however he is given the chances.

Similar to Musonda. If we send him out and Boga to sh*t teams, Granada for instance it is not going to develop the player because they are that bad. If those two, especially Musonda are given the chance to play games with out team, they will really excel imo and long run be considered top players however not if we keep farming them on loan and eventually selling them.

Similar with Rashford. If he was here, he prob would be in Abraham's shoes but because he is a talent and being able to play with top players, he is considered a quality prospect and good enough even now. If United sent him out on loan, things may be completely different.

49 minutes ago, jack h said:

Gutted that Chalobah is gone, yet another example of no faith being shown in our youngsters and the brick wall they hit when impressing on loan or in the youth team, we just don't have a clue how to intergrate them. Would take him over Matic every day of the week.

Same here. People think that I'm joking but would happily give him a chance to shine and start improving his game through significant minutes during the season. You are only ever going to improve on what talent you have through practice and application of taught skills on the pitch.