13 hours ago, Munkworth said:

I’m part of the actual match-going crowd and I think he’s bang average with the capability to produce an occasional world class performance. 

Then you know as well as I do that he rarely, if ever, gets the sort of rancid, abusive and usually inaccurate sh*t from the fans sitting around you as he does from the fans sitting at home, watching what the Sky director chooses to show them.

10 hours ago, JMaher94 said:

Players with more goals than Willian in the league this season:

N’golo Kanté, Shane Duffy, Callum Paterson, Ashley Barnes, Lucas Digne, James Tarkowski, Matt Doherty, Jose Holebas & Jeff Schlupp.

Regardless of what your opinion is of Willian, that isn't acceptable for a player starting in a top team pretty much every game. Most of the players that I've listed are defenders for mid/lower table sides.

As I have previously said, goals are not, in my opinion, Willians raison d'etre.  If that's the criterion, then we should be sacking off Jorginho, Barkley, Kante (only 3 goals, Willian has 4 ), CHO, not to mention Azpilicuetta, Luiz and Emerson.   And the less said about Kepa, the better.  But then we can adjust our reality by picking the stats that we like so you choose to limit it to league goals.  I didn't realise that matches other than in the league didn't count,  except for making a silly point by listing some duff players.

From your list, put them in the Chelsea team, playing the same role as Willian is instructed to play every week by the manager, against the same opponents, playing the same way, and see how many of them score as many.  You don't know and neither do I, but I think your list is fallacious at the very best.

 

54 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

Then you know as well as I do that he rarely, if ever, gets the sort of rancid, abusive and usually inaccurate sh*t from the fans sitting around you as he does from the fans sitting at home, watching what the Sky director chooses to show them.

As I have previously said, goals are not, in my opinion, Willians raison d'etre.  If that's the criterion, then we should be sacking off Jorginho, Barkley, Kante (only 3 goals, Willian has 4 ), CHO, not to mention Azpilicuetta, Luiz and Emerson.   And the less said about Kepa, the better.  But then we can adjust our reality by picking the stats that we like so you choose to limit it to league goals.  I didn't realise that matches other than in the league didn't count,  except for making a silly point by listing some duff players.

From your list, put them in the Chelsea team, playing the same role as Willian is instructed to play every week by the manager, against the same opponents, playing the same way, and see how many of them score as many.  You don't know and neither do I, but I think your list is fallacious at the very best.

 

I was at the Wolves game and all i heard were people around me slagging Willian off. Not sure where you're sitting on match days but the away following certainly aren't behind him often. Must have good hearing to be able to hear the opinions of all the match going fans though 

As for the Chelsea players you've listed, none of them are wingers in an attacking team. The only one that is arguably comparable is Barkley and even he's started to be dropped. CHO scored for fun in the youth teams, once he's established (if that ever happens) at Chelsea i have no doubt he'd offer more of a goal threat than Willian.

41 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

I was at the Wolves game and all i heard were people around me slagging Willian off. Not sure where you're sitting on match days but the away following certainly aren't behind him often. Must have good hearing to be able to hear the opinions of all the match going fans though 

As for the Chelsea players you've listed, none of them are wingers in an attacking team. The only one that is arguably comparable is Barkley and even he's started to be dropped. CHO scored for fun in the youth teams, once he's established (if that ever happens) at Chelsea i have no doubt he'd offer more of a goal threat than Willian.

That would be the away support who regularly give Willian a standing ovation as he comes off, would it?  I'm not sure one match a season gives you a phenomenal insight into the views of the fans, but for that particular match he may well have had a bad game, I don't keep records of all his mistakes, unlike some, but I would be willing to bet that the "slagging off" you heard around you were more likely to be more along the lines of the "oh, for f**ks sake" that you get when a player loses the ball, and which we all understand, rather than the bitter and rancid abuse that Willian gets in the matchday threads in here from all   round the world, based on what the Sky director has chosen to show. 

Must be great to have formed an opinion of the true support for a player based on a single away match.

I do hope you are right about CHO, if being a "goal threat" is his actual role in the team, and it's great that Sarri and the club management can base their strategy going forward on the fact that you "have no doubt"

I think that's part of the problem these days.  So many people "have no doubt", are certain that there is only one, single truth and everything is either black or white.  There is no grey area, nothing undetermined or uncertain. There is something about that sort of stance that we can learn from history.

I am not certain about ANYTHING, particularly when it comes to football.

It's like a lot of what we get in here when considering upcoming games.  Team A beat team B.  Team B beat team C.  Ergo, it is impossible to contemplate anything else other then Team A will beat team C.  There appears to be very little consideration of the real world, and different circumstances providing different outcomes.  I'm sure there is a theory about that, somewhere on the internet.

26 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

That would be the away support who regularly give Willian a standing ovation as he comes off, would it?  I'm not sure one match a season gives you a phenomenal insight into the views of the fans, but for that particular match he may well have had a bad game, I don't keep records of all his mistakes, unlike some, but I would be willing to bet that the "slagging off" you heard around you were more likely to be more along the lines of the "oh, for f**ks sake" that you get when a player loses the ball, and which we all understand, rather than the bitter and rancid abuse that Willian gets in the matchday threads in here from all   round the world, based on what the Sky director has chosen to show. 

Must be great to have formed an opinion of the true support for a player based on a single away match.

I do hope you are right about CHO, if being a "goal threat" is his actual role in the team, and it's great that Sarri and the club management can base their strategy going forward on the fact that you "have no doubt"

I think that's part of the problem these days.  So many people "have no doubt", are certain that there is only one, single truth and everything is either black or white.  There is no grey area, nothing undetermined or uncertain. There is something about that sort of stance that we can learn from history.

I am not certain about ANYTHING, particularly when it comes to football.

It's like a lot of what we get in here when considering upcoming games.  Team A beat team B.  Team B beat team C.  Ergo, it is impossible to contemplate anything else other then Team A will beat team C.  There appears to be very little consideration of the real world, and different circumstances providing different outcomes.  I'm sure there is a theory about that, somewhere on the internet.

I manage to get to around 10 away days a season and its always the same. People moaning in the bars before about Willian being selected. Obviously he'll get clapped when coming off, every Chelsea player would. We aren't Madrid, we don't tend to boo our own players but within the stands it isn't some massive Willian w**kfest like you seem to think it is.

Where are you sitting on match days? Must be very far from me.

To be fair I'd take any excuse to sing the song...

4 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

People moaning in the bars before about Willian being selected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I never said it was a w**kfest, just that I never hear the rancid abuse that Willian gets in here at matches. 

Away games, I go where I'm put, homes games either MHL or East Upper, depending on who I go with.  I think you are right, I suspect that Stamford Bridge does count as very far from the midlands.

3 minutes ago, yorkleyblue said:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

I never said it was a w**kfest, just that I never hear the rancid abuse that Willian gets in here at matches. 

Away games, I go where I'm put, homes games either MHL or East Upper, depending on who I go with.  I think you are right, I suspect that Stamford Bridge does count as very far from the midlands.

The same goes for you with your wikipedia article. You must be filtering only the positives. 

I try to avoid the Bridge unless we're in the cup, never a great atmosphere. Much prefer away days or European aways. 

oh, wow, one of the old-skool die-hards, eh?  Walking with purpose through the back streets of Hull or Helsinki, with a bunch of like-minded blokes.  I remember that.

Actually, I suspect that the lads we hang around with a matches are vastly different.  Might well be why we have different opinions about most things.

Edited January 2, 20197 yr by yorkleyblue

Perhaps so, i tend to avoid the prawn sandwiches and latte on match days.

I do love how you always manage to dig up some internet meme quote.  It's the benefit of youth and google.

You'll kn ow all about this bit.  Which bar in the MHL concourse serves prawn sandwiches?

I imagine you and your chums take your own picnic?

This topic appears to have become about as purposeful as a Willian mazy run

 

Ah, but that also shows he's consistent..... 

5 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Then you know as well as I do that he rarely, if ever, gets the sort of rancid, abusive and usually inaccurate sh*t from the fans sitting around you as he does from the fans sitting at home, watching what the Sky director chooses to show them.

He gets quite a bit stick, he gets a lot moans and groans when his first touch lets him down or he completely fails to retrieve a pass directly at him.

On the other hand when he does something right he does get a big cheer.

But his song is about how he apparently hates Tottenham which is the main reason it’s a popular song. 

My opinion on attack minded players is that they first and foremost should have a large hand in scoring and, especially more so wingers/attacking midfields (in which Willian qualifies), creating goals.

This topic is this seasons Salah/KDB debate and will roll on until the next one. Nobody really has anything new to add, nobodies opinion is going to be changed so we might as well give up on it. 

3 hours ago, Munkworth said:

we might as well give up on it. 

With you on that one.

 

3 hours ago, Munkworth said:

moans and groans when his first touch lets him down

yep - from me as well, but not the frankly disgusting abuse that gets posted in here for transgressions not even as bad as that.

Like I said previously, one total prick had posted something along the lines of "f**king Willian, f**king sh*te" 1 minute and 8 seconds (or thereabouts) into a match.  You convince me that whoever that armchair fan was, they weren't just sitting , sweating, with one hand down their Y-fronts,

As a general observation I see/hear much less negative comment on the very odd occasion that I get to the Bridge. Maybe i'm too busy tucking into my prawn sandwich and prosecco to notice? [emoji230]

6 hours ago, yorkleyblue said:

Then you know as well as I do that he rarely, if ever, gets the sort of rancid, abusive and usually inaccurate sh*t from the fans sitting around you as he does from the fans sitting at home, watching what the Sky director chooses to show them.

As I have previously said, goals are not, in my opinion, Willians raison d'etre.  If that's the criterion, then we should be sacking off Jorginho, Barkley, Kante (only 3 goals, Willian has 4 ), CHO, not to mention Azpilicuetta, Luiz and Emerson.   And the less said about Kepa, the better.  But then we can adjust our reality by picking the stats that we like so you choose to limit it to league goals.  I didn't realise that matches other than in the league didn't count,  except for making a silly point by listing some duff players.

From your list, put them in the Chelsea team, playing the same role as Willian is instructed to play every week by the manager, against the same opponents, playing the same way, and see how many of them score as many.  You don't know and neither do I, but I think your list is fallacious at the very best.

 

So you think that one of our three attackers is not in the team to score goals? Because he only has 3 assists in the league as well so what is his actual role within the team?

 

I'm not sure what the current "acceptable" web site for statistics is, so this is from

https://www.whoscored.com/Players/29463/Show/Willian

 

They have him as "Attacking Midfielder (Centre, Left, Right)"

They have the following

Willian Characteristics

+ Strengths

Holding on to the ball	Very Strong
Key passes	Very Strong
Dribbling	Very Strong
Crossing	Strong
Passing	Strong
Taking set-pieces	Strong
Long shots	Strong
Direct free-kicks	Strong

- Weaknesses

Finishing

Weak

 

Willian's Style of Play

• Likes to do layoffs
• Likes to dribble
• Likes to cross
• Likes to cut inside
• Does not dive into tackles

© WhoScored.com

 

 

* Strengths, weaknesses and styles are calculated from statistics of each player's latest two season

 

 

Holding on to the ball, key passes and dribbling.  Listed as Very Strong. What we see every week.  What I would have him in the team for. Obviously what our managers have had him in the team for.

 

And I also think that comparisons between Willian and CHO are both naive and pointless.  They are different types of player performing totally different functions.  Willian could never do some of the trickery that CHO has done in the lower levels,  and CHO could never match Willian for a high-pressing, hard-working turning defence into attack.

 

Different players, different skill-sets, useful in different circumstances.  Like I said in another thread, it's never either black or white, circumstances dictate what is right at the time..

 

 

 

 

2 hours ago, JMaher94 said:

So you think that one of our three attackers is not in the team to score goals? Because he only has 3 assists in the league as well so what is his actual role within the team?

 

Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?
Don't drink, don't smoke, what do you do?
Subtle innuendo follow
There must be something inside

8 hours ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Perhaps so, i tend to avoid the prawn sandwiches and latte on match days.

I'm now genuinely (and surprisingly for me) interested.  Have you ever been to tyhe Bridge?

1 hour ago, yorkleyblue said:

I'm now genuinely (and surprisingly for me) interested.  Have you ever been to tyhe Bridge?

What's the Bridge?

I try and support Willian normally, and have huge respect for what he’s done for us in the past. But he was awful today. That moment where a pass was going out deep in the Southampton half and he just jogged slowly towards it and let it run out in front of him pissed me off thoroughly.

Sooo... We're playing an out of form 30 year old winger every single game instead of a young prospect in CHO who we should pray and pray stays at the club and signs a new contract.

At this point it's not even a case of trying to pick up points, we would have a better chance of winning games giving somebody else the chance and getting Willian on the bench for a change. 

4 hours ago, Slojo said:

At this point it's not even a case of trying to pick up points, we would have a better chance of winning games giving somebody else the chance and getting Willian on the bench for a change. 

He went off early last night so you basically got this and nothing was different.