On 24/05/2018 at 05:12, yorkleyblue said:

The bloke I quoted has been saying little else in this discussion.  I agree, nothing at all wrong with wanting the best for the club.  In my view the finances and resources are irrelevant, but yes, we all want the best.

Demanding trophies and that we must be at the Real/Barca/Bayern level or we are just sh*t is spoilt and entitled, and is way way more than wanting the best, it's being a sulky, whiney pouting princess.  That was my point.

See there's a key element of my argument which you've misconstrued and which completely changes the argument if we go with what you've understood it to be (and I'd probably be on your side if I heard someone else making the argument you seem to think I'm making). 

Saying we MUST be on Real/Barca/Bayern level isn't my argument. Saying we SHOULD be on their level or at least keep TRYING to get there IS my argument. It's simple. What's stopping us?

- We're in London. A top 5 attractive destination for footballers.

- We're in the PL, perhaps the most attractive league in the world for players both for publicity, culture and a big cheque.

- We have a wealthy owner who despite not being the biggest spender around anymore, is still willing to spend big in the transfer market

- We have invested millions for years into our academy and as a result have arguably the best academy in world football at the moment.

All of this things combined give us pretty much all the tools you'd need if you want to break into that elite level. The only thing that has f**ked us over is terrible planning. That is the single biggest hinderance to that progression for us. It's not that we haven't spent big, we've spent hundreds of millions over the past few seasons, we've just spent it on rubbish. Instead of spending really big - say £100m - for that one elite player and than having him be backed up by a youth player or something along those lines, we'd rather spend that same £100m on 3 average players who end up taking all the playing time, hindering the progress of the youngsters and still not contributing as well on the pitch as we would like. What was the point of buying Zappacosta when we had Dujon Sterling? I like Emerson but it seems Jay Da Silva's never gonna get a chance. Chalobah had to f**k off because we wouldn't even guarantee him solid minutes (he wasn't even asking to start every game) and instead we've gone for Drinkwater. A sane club would have given RLC a chance instead of Bakayoko. 

I can understand if a truly elite player is taking playing time away from youngsters but not if it's an average player. We had a crop of Oscar (average), Schurrle (average), Willian (above average here and there) and co and decided that Salah and De Bruyne weren't worth it. They were even below Cuadrado in the pecking order and we hardly even used Cuadrado.

We're not willing to give youngsters a chance for better or worse and we're not willing to spend big on truly elite players either so where does that leave us? Somewhere in the middle wasting money on average players. Surely that doesn't sit well with you? Instead of playing Lukaku, we went out and got 34 year old Eto'o and even (as much as I love him dearly) a 36 year old Drogba. Which means that we had to instead of enjoying our 2011 £18m investment, go out to spend 70 odd mil on Morata who hasn't worked out to this point and is in the transfer rumours again, pictured with his agent talking to Juventus officials. So what was the point of all of that?

You'll never see clubs like Real/Bayern/Barca running without a structure. At least not in modern day. United in Fergie's days also had a proper structure. Once upon a time in the first half of the Roman era, we did as well.

Maybe I should have been a lot clearer in what I was saying from the beginning, although you can't blame me for assuming it wouldn't be hard for anyone to figure out what I was saying but the meat of what I've been saying is simply that we have everything we need to be truly elite so why are we pissing it away? It's because of this lack of structure that we seem to win the league every now and then and instead of working hard to sustain that level that made us win, we have a terrible season the very next year. This is the third time it's happened this decade. At some point we're going to have to iron everything out. Especially now that we're going into a period where we're rebuilding the Bridge and may not have as much cash to throw around.

On 24/05/2018 at 04:22, yorkleyblue said:

I don't want to get in the middle of this, and I've quoted this post as a representative one of yours, rather than it's specific content (although it is a masterclass in self-contradiction "You're a complete idiot", "you're not the sharpest knife in the drawer.", "you're clearly very dim upstairs.", "Tried to be as respectful as possible"- think about that).

My opinion, expressed many times in this forum in the past, is that you nor I have ANY right to  expectations of the team or the manager over and above that they do their very best in the blue shirt.  We have no right to EXPECT anything from the club.  Season ticket holders and match-goers have more rights than those of us who watch on the telly or on streams,but basically, we are owed the very best performance on the pitch, by every player, every match, and nothing else. Anyone who says "the club owe me this" or "I need trophies and a place at the top  table"  needs to have a good look at themselves.  Snide-ish references to  "the working man" or "willing to accept mediocrity" are disingenuous and inaccurate.

Didn't see this initially. I've already replied you about the argument I was making but in response to this, I didn't utter any word of disrespect to the other fella until he started throwing them my way. It's a simple tit for tat. Nothing more to it. I wouldn't expect you to go back and track all the posts back and forth, which is why I'm explaining this part to you now.

And as for expectations, while you're right, you're also misconstruing my point. Refer to the other post I made to you. Also, there's a reason why clubs set expectations for managers ever season. Anywhere from "title" to "top 4" to "two trophies" to "good cup finish" to "mid table finish" to "just keep us up". They're being paid by the club to do a job. And the club is earning its money from the fans directly or indirectly. Whether it's matchday tickets or it's tv subscriptions or it's merchandise or whatever it may be. None of the millions flowing through football clubs would be possible if fans weren't watching. Excluding our youth players, a lot of these players have no real love for the club. They're playing because they're paid to play. They may say the right things in the media to give the illusion that they bleed blue but I think fans can tell the players who actually truly care. More than half of this team is a far cry to the previous generation of players that played for us. So if they're here because they're being paid to be here, which one way or the other is coming out of your pocket, then what's wrong with expecting that they be better? There's a reason why when certain fanbases are disillusioned with their club, they make their voices heard. Some even stage walk outs or organise whatever protest (certainly isn't anywhere near that bad for us, just an example). If they thought their opinion was irrelevant then football clubs would be in much worse states than they are right now.

If this was a sport played for charity, then yes, I'd understand the "have no expectations" sentiments. That sentiment in and of itself is actually pretty hypocritical considering that whenever we sign a player for a big fee, you expect them to play well, don't you? Why not have no expectations whatsoever and just choose to be at the mercy of said player? All the support and love we shower on them is because we expect them to perform well on the pitch, isn't it? We want them to perform because it benefits the club we love so much. But it's not just a want. It's an expectation. This is 2018 and they're earning A LOT more than the average bloke walking around on the street. It's no longer an era where players put their bodies on the line for meager salaries. They're all millionaires. Is it such a crime to want them to earn their money's worth?

Feel free to correct me wherever you think I'm wrong but as it stands, that's my opinion.

Ciao Toni, the first season was a breath of fresh air as we stormed the premier league and I got to see my second prem trophy hoisted at the Bridge. Walking out of Wembley first after a piss poor display a week later sucked. This season you just whined and bitched a bit too much after the summer contract negotiations, when all your staff moved into hotels thinking it was P45s not another season. We played some of the worst footy in years this season but god bless you we still won the FA cup, and I was there to see it hoisted. Sad to see you go but it’s probably for the best me old china.

10 hours ago, Barrettinator said:

You've actually made ZERO sense in all of the posts you've directed towards me and I'm not sure why I'm still replying you. Put a decent argument together or f**k off in peace. It's that simple. For all I know, you're some 18 year old sitting behind that computer/phone calling me a glory hunting twit. Laughable to say the least. Don't you have A levels to write or something? I mean, since we're cooking up fantasies. Bloody moron. 

Deary me. In addition to being a glory hunter your one of these " gotta get the last word in" freaks.

Youve comprehensively lost the debate sunshine, and further comments from yourself on the subject make you look even more of a plank.

Take good care plastic

 

 

Edited May 26, 20188 yr by Ewell CFC

On 25/05/2018 at 14:21, Zola said:

I was meaning proper cash, not Drinkwater cash

To buy some class 1 free range eggs

 

 

"......you just HAVE to get the last word in, don't you?"

He says, as he tries to get the last word in. Sappy c**t.

On 24/05/2018 at 12:23, yorkleyblue said:

Reading back through this thread (and others) there are some extremely weird opinions being expressed.  There are several posters who appear to seriously believe that Conte deliberately sabotaged several matches this season as a "f**k you" to the board because he didn't get bought player X or player Y that he MOST DEFINITELY wanted,  and we all know that because it was in the Daily Star, and then repeated on Twitter.

Do we honestly believe that Conte spent the week leading up to the Newcastle match in training telling the entire team and substitutes "Vai là fuori e gioca come un cazzo, ci sono bravi ragazzi"*

I think we really should get a grip  amongst us sometimes.  I can't defend some of Conte's behaviour or his tactical selections/changes this season, but come on, to deliberately force a team of international footballers to play so badly, just to make a point?   Once again, I do despair of the gullibility of some people, sometimes.

 

*"Go out there and play like sh*t, there's good lads."

I don't think he went out there to sabotage but I don't think he cared that much, I thought his decision making in the Huddersfield match was just bizarre. Leaving out Hazard was a crazy decision and Conte has been ridiculously stubborn all season with his tactics. But you could say a lot of managers are. 

Either way, I think it's best if he moves on, I think we need something else in the club right now and I honestly can't stand Conte's setup and substitutions. I think we need to start playing attacking football or we'll start to lose our best players, you can tell Hazard was fed up with the system we've played and always getting taken off, now Willian also wants to go. Look at all the players who spoke out against Conte, although don't get me wrong, that doesn't make them right. Defeating player power is something this club needs but I thought what Rudiger said was pretty rational and he had a point. As for David Luiz no, I support Conte 100% on that one. 

Antonio can leave if he doesn't want to be here. Loved what he did last season and for the FA Cup but this season was pathetic.

He did all the wrong things possible ie burning bridges with some players, sulking, that ridiculous feud with Jose, questionable tactics etc. Admittedly the board didn't give it's best and dallied on negotiations for various reasons but it still wasn't right talking about the matter publicly and he could've still adjusted the tactics to the newer personnel or try out new things instead of barely giving them a look in.

It'd be nice to end it on a high note by winning something together one last time than dragging this out to next season until his eventual sacking.

I wonder why the club are waiting to strike up deals with players if the manager has no say so at all over recruiting. Hmmmm

5 hours ago, TheChelseaBlues said:

I wonder why the club are waiting to strike up deals with players if the manager has no say so at all over recruiting. Hmmmm

Of course the manager has a say over signings. He has to identify the types of players he needs to the board for them to sign. He may not choose the name but he does choose the position and attributes of the players we target. 

You know why we haven’t sacked him?

Because we don’t know if we’re going to replace him.

Don’t rule out him seeing out the final year of contract if the contract situation with Sarri can’t be resolved. 

I was in Pisa Italy recently on vacation and speak a bit of Italian so I was reading the sports pages. One of the newspapers mentioned that Conte is here for the long term, if backed thus summer could extend contract by 4 years.

Article explained how the season just passed showed the men from the boys and the ones with weak mentality that cause trouble. I think we will have a busy summer on transfers both in and out.. and I don't mind having Conte here next season. 

2 minutes ago, Gentian said:

I was in Pisa Italy recently on vacation and speak a bit of Italian so I was reading the sports pages. One of the newspapers mentioned that Conte is here for the long term, if backed thus summer could extend contract by 4 years. 

 

I don't think your Italian is as good as you think it is.

10 minutes ago, Gentian said:

I was in Pisa Italy recently on vacation and speak a bit of Italian so I was reading the sports pages. One of the newspapers mentioned that Conte is here for the long term, if backed thus summer could extend contract by 4 years.

Just imagine five more years of Conte, The match day programme would come with a free box of Citalopram.

Either way we are for a busy summer and the dealings will be crucial more so than other years if we want to compete with the top teams. 

I wouldn't be surprised if we sign one or two players with potential on the cheap though and think we are good to go for next season. 

3 hours ago, Gentian said:

I was in Pisa Italy recently on vacation and speak a bit of Italian so I was reading the sports pages. One of the newspapers mentioned that Conte is here for the long term, if backed thus summer could extend contract by 4 years.

Article explained how the season just passed showed the men from the boys and the ones with weak mentality that cause trouble. I think we will have a busy summer on transfers both in and out.. and I don't mind having Conte here next season. 

By the way players were talking, how they don’t want to play defensive football anymore, I fear we may lose several stars this summer, including Hazard.

Which may explain the stadium plans being put on hold? Roman knows we will need to spend massive if we lose best players. 

I’m certain he’s gone anyway and Sarri will come in, eventually.

On 02/06/2018 at 00:12, dansubrosa said:

By the way players were talking, how they don’t want to play defensive football anymore, I fear we may lose several stars this summer, including Hazard.

Which may explain the stadium plans being put on hold? Roman knows we will need to spend massive if we lose best players. 

I’m certain he’s gone anyway and Sarri will come in, eventually.

It seems as though we've been counter attaching football forever. The only time we play with pace is on the break. We send 2 players to the ball and the first man doesn't even harass his opponent.

Mourinho is on record as saying that the team without the ball is most dangerous ( sounds a bit Irish?)

Its probably affected our marketability across the world when compared with rivals who play with a bit more panache and verve.

Some of you guys really don't understand why Conte went all defensive this season. He did it because our midfield didn't work with Bakayoko nor will it work many times with Cesc. He tried to limit the damage and make the CL. Our strikers couldn't do what Costa did and this is why he tried to go solid in the back and break out with Haz. That is what Jose bases his game if his players are not firing all cylinders but he wants 3 points. 

I think Conte is a big man in front of lot of young players. He is the best solution for this club for the following season. If our summer goes well we are contending in every front.

46 minutes ago, evissy said:

Some of you guys really don't understand why Conte went all defensive this season. He did it because our midfield didn't work with Bakayoko nor will it work many times with Cesc. He tried to limit the damage and make the CL. Our strikers couldn't do what Costa did and this is why he tried to go solid in the back and break out with Haz. That is what Jose bases his game if his players are not firing all cylinders but he wants 3 points. 

I agree with the defensive comment yet fails to explain his poor record of making timely substitutions and the right substitutions.

He also appears to have fallen out with key players thereby limiting his onfield options. 

I was  surprised he survived after the Spurs game, either Roman didn't care, or he really thought about give this manager another chance. After winning the FA cup, they must had a second thought about Conte. They started courting another manager without sacking Conte, didn't want pay the release clause, could be just not keen to get robbed by Napoli, on the other hand not going at this whole heatedly. If Blanc is the first choice, he should have been signed up ages ago since he's a free agent, so as Enrique. As for Conte, he said he wanted to stay, maybe it's the champagne talking that night, or could be realistically he's not getting another good job offer this year.

3 hours ago, evissy said:

Some of you guys really don't understand why Conte went all defensive this season. He did it because our midfield didn't work with Bakayoko nor will it work many times with Cesc. He tried to limit the damage and make the CL. Our strikers couldn't do what Costa did and this is why he tried to go solid in the back and break out with Haz. That is what Jose bases his game if his players are not firing all cylinders but he wants 3 points. 

I think Conte is a big man in front of lot of young players. He is the best solution for this club for the following season. If our summer goes well we are contending in every front.

The reason we didn't make the champions league was due to Conte's managerial  ability in 2018, Spurs and Liverpool didn't even have to do anything special to reach the CL. Conte was awful for 3-4 months which was done just too much damage.

4 hours ago, Ernie_blue said:

The reason we didn't make the champions league was due to Conte's managerial  ability in 2018, Spurs and Liverpool didn't even have to do anything special to reach the CL. Conte was awful for 3-4 months which was done just too much damage.

I think that the fact our main striker couldn't hit a barn door didn't help, it's not like we never created chances, we just couldn't finish.

If we had Costa in the team we would have finished in the top 3. The club need to back Conte and sign a WC Striker & Midfielder, probably a goalie now things seem to have stalled with Courtois.

36 minutes ago, Malcolm9 said:

I think that the fact our main striker couldn't hit a barn door didn't help, it's not like we never created chances, we just couldn't finish.

If we had Costa in the team we would have finished in the top 3. The club need to back Conte and sign a WC Striker & Midfielder, probably a goalie now things seem to have stalled with Courtois.

and a winger since conte has fallen out with Willian.

and a centre since conte has fallen out with Luiz...allegedly. 

 

2 hours ago, Malcolm9 said:

I think that the fact our main striker couldn't hit a barn door didn't help, it's not like we never created chances, we just couldn't finish.

If we had Costa in the team we would have finished in the top 3. The club need to back Conte and sign a WC Striker & Midfielder, probably a goalie now things seem to have stalled with Courtois.

Not having Costa doesn't mean you wait till the 80th min to make subs, it doesn't mean you can't adapt from the same formation, it doesn't mean you can't adapt to football games changing, it doesn't mean you can't use players who are obviously fit, it doesn't mean you keep playing Baka. 

It's a poor excuse for many poor managerial errors, it's like blaming all the same faults on the board. If only we could all blame our mistakes on higher management like Conte does.

32 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Not having Costa doesn't mean you wait till the 80th min to make subs, it doesn't mean you can't adapt from the same formation, it doesn't mean you can't adapt to football games changing, it doesn't mean you can't use players who are obviously fit, it doesn't mean you keep playing Baka. 

It's a poor excuse for many poor managerial errors, it's like blaming all the same faults on the board. If only we could all blame our mistakes on higher management like Conte does.

Yet he won the FA cup despite the very poor season by his standards and ours. What did pochettino Klopp moriunho win again? How about Sarri?