N'golo Kante - We are not worthy!

[Slojo]

2 minutes ago, bisright1 said:

Well if we had mane and salah either side of the striker, our midfield would be fine. But we don't. 

I know but that's the point, this argument that we need a Frank Lampard sort of midfielder is just outdated imo. We don't need to sign a midfielder for the sake of that he scores goals, goals need to come from our front 3. 

Edited January 22, 2020 by Slojo

[ducavis]

18 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho was great last game, him and CHO showed up. Fact is Jorginho was among our best performers in the last games against Arsenal, Kante never played as a deep lying playmaker, he can't do what Jorginho has been doing.

You don’t need a deep lying playmaker if Lamps is trying to using his fullbacks as playmakers. He has mentioned a few times that he is trying to mirror the Liverpool style of football, what we need is an energetic midfield. 
The fault lies primarily with our historical moves in the market; we have a set of players bought  and made for Conte’s counterattacking style of football (Kante, Alonso), then you have the possession ones made for Sarri’s possession style of football (Jorginho, Emerson). Now we have a manager who wants to play the high press and is having to shoe horn these different players into a system they are not made for.

[Davey Baby]

Kante played so well in his first season for us alongside Matic, in a pivot, and Matic was the player who sat deep while Kante ran around the pitch a lot. That's what Conte loved about Kante so much and he repeatedly said so. Conte said football was a running game, and nobody runs more on a football pitch than Kante.

[Gol15]

11 minutes ago, ducavis said:

You don’t need a deep lying playmaker if Lamps is trying to using his fullbacks as playmakers. He has mentioned a few times that he is trying to mirror the Liverpool style of football, what we need is an energetic midfield. 
The fault lies primarily with our historical moves in the market; we have a set of players bought  and made for Conte’s counterattacking style of football (Kante, Alonso), then you have the possession ones made for Sarri’s possession style of football (Jorginho, Emerson). Now we have a manager who wants to play the high press and is having to shoe horn these different players into a system they are not made for.

So not even Jorginho fits in our team? For Lampard neither Kante nor Jorginho fit? What the .. .. lol

[MANoWAR]

The goal is annoying. Had Kante been in  Emerson's position he would have been able to help if he couldn't clear the ball. Kante's error/slip is irrelevant in the context of things -- there was no reason he should've been 2 vs. 1 on a corner  for the first goal when you're already leading 1-0

Edited January 22, 2020 by MANoWAR

[yorkleyblue]

34 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

I'm currently leading in the predictions thread and now I know why that is

I couldn't possibly comment 

[strider6004]

18 minutes ago, Davey Baby said:

Kante played so well in his first season for us alongside Matic, in a pivot, and Matic was the player who sat deep while Kante ran around the pitch a lot. That's what Conte loved about Kante so much and he repeatedly said so. Conte said football was a running game, and nobody runs more on a football pitch than Kante.

That was when we had Hazard and Costa which between them took out about 4-5 defenders. We no longer have that attacking strength.

[strider6004]

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

Jorginho was great last game, him and CHO showed up. Fact is Jorginho was among our best performers in the last games against Arsenal, Kante never played as a deep lying playmaker, he can't do what Jorginho has been doing.

He is a different player from Jorginho, though I never see Jorginho as a playmaker more as a link between defence and midfield. Kante would be less involved in the build up and more prowling to make sure if we lose the ball he wins it back.

 

[bisright1]

1 hour ago, Slojo said:

I know but that's the point, this argument that we need a Frank Lampard sort of midfielder is just outdated imo. We don't need to sign a midfielder for the sake of that he scores goals, goals need to come from our front 3. 

The only reason I don't agree with that is that I think we need 3 players to be regular goal scorers, it doesn't need to be a wide player necessarily though in that three. 

RLC (or a similar powerful goalscoring midfielder), Sancho, Tammy is how I would set up for goals. A tricky winger like cho or pulisic and a midfield of a final 3rd ball winner and a deep lying playmaker would satisfy me. 

[Ukraine Bolt]

Can't blame Kante for the goal yesterday, i saw a couple of people slip.

Having said that, i think overall he was poor again. Offered next to nothing in the attack, and spent most of the time trying to control the ball or pass backwards.

Going forward it should be Jorginho/Kovacic or Kante/Kovacic starting in a pair.

[Argo]

56 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Can't blame Kante for the goal yesterday, i saw a couple of people slip.

Having said that, i think overall he was poor again. Offered next to nothing in the attack, and spent most of the time trying to control the ball or pass backwards.

Going forward it should be Jorginho/Kovacic or Kante/Kovacic starting in a pair.

Hopefully his substitution yesterday has meant the penny dropped with Lampard that he shouldn't be untouchable especially in situations of facing deep defenses.

[IliyaKrostin]

We simply should play Kante where he played his best football.

Let him focus on the defense, and then run a counter attack after taking the ball.

[charierre]

1 hour ago, RIP Mourinho said:

Can't blame Kante for the goal yesterday, i saw a couple of people slip.

Having said that, i think overall he was poor again. Offered next to nothing in the attack, and spent most of the time trying to control the ball or pass backwards.

Going forward it should be Jorginho/Kovacic or Kante/Kovacic starting in a pair.

The Kante slip was unfortunate but others helped contribute. There's an argument that Emerson and Kovacic on the edge of the box probably should have been  5 yds back, anticipating the clearing header. Martinelli had an awful lot of free space to run into and with only Kante covering. Once past Kante, Kepa made the job easier, he had time to get to the edge of his box and didn't stand tall, long enough.

[axman2526]

Asking Kante to be an offensive midfielder is like asking Maka to play that role. A waste of his best talents.

[Slojo]

1 hour ago, charierre said:

The Kante slip was unfortunate but others helped contribute. There's an argument that Emerson and Kovacic on the edge of the box probably should have been  5 yds back, anticipating the clearing header. Martinelli had an awful lot of free space to run into and with only Kante covering. Once past Kante, Kepa made the job easier, he had time to get to the edge of his box and didn't stand tall, long enough.

Yep, it shouldn't have been a situation of one v two in the first place, utterly ridiculous. I don't blame Kante for that it was just a mistake and yes surprisingly Gol15 is right about something, it could've happened to anyone. Unfortunately we had Emerson tracking back, the one player who couldn't commit a foul. 

[Spiller86]

6 hours ago, Argo said:

But we could put it another way, how long does his incredible form of three years get him a free pass? There's a fine line between letting a player use up credit in the bank and literally playing them because of how good they were at their absolute best, do we have to now play him unconditionally until he completely falls of a cliff out of gratitude for his first two season's? That type of mindset with the old guard is what led to us having an inconsistent decade in terms of league finishes (compared to the last one) in the first place. I still haven't worked out if Kante has low key started a decline of its more a system issue but if it's the former we absolutely must start preparing for that and not just ignore it only to get caught with our pants down when father time truly hits him.

Also the Maka and Kante comparisons are a bit misguided. Maka was a sitter who sweeped up and distributed, Kante is an all action player who's main attribute is his engine. Think Ashley Cole declining at 30 but Terry maintaining a very high level until his mid 30s, one relied a lot on engine and stamima while the other was more about positioning so always had a larger shelf life at the top.

I think to answer this take a look at his performaces for France this season where he plays his proper position. Much more like his usual self. Albeit with better players and an actual system structure rather than the Redknapp 2.0 approach we are using but it does say something

I agree its possible he is declining, I don't think he has done as well as last year. A far more likely scenario in my view is that he is being blamed for the deficits of our midfield more generally. He is expected to be the ball winner but now also expected to be creative and score too. The second two were never his strengths.

Truth is our midfield is lacking creativity big time. We are missing Ruben (who was the catalyst of our turnaround last season) much more than we know. Jorginho isn't creative he is a system player. Beyond taking a good penalty I don't actually know what he is really adding to our team in an attacking sense. Kante does his role for France with no issues whatsoever.

Kovacic has shown signs of improvement but now can't get on the pitch and Mount is pretty much there because he presses rather than any other attributes.

Make no mistake these issues go much deeper than Kante and any of the top CL contenders would bite our hand off for him and he'd happily go off and win them a Champions League if we continue down this road.

[Ukraine Bolt]

4 hours ago, charierre said:

The Kante slip was unfortunate but others helped contribute. There's an argument that Emerson and Kovacic on the edge of the box probably should have been  5 yds back, anticipating the clearing header. Martinelli had an awful lot of free space to run into and with only Kante covering. Once past Kante, Kepa made the job easier, he had time to get to the edge of his box and didn't stand tall, long enough.

I don't blame Kante one bit for that goal, however his overall game yesterday concerned me again. 

Emerson shouldn't have committed so high for the corner.

[axman2526]

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

I don't blame Kante one bit for that goal, however his overall game yesterday concerned me again. 

Emerson shouldn't have committed so high for the corner.

Emerson should have fouled him and been sent off. Would have done us 2 favours in one move lol.

[Gol15]

13 hours ago, Spiller86 said:

I think to answer this take a look at his performaces for France this season where he plays his proper position. Much more like his usual self. Albeit with better players and an actual system structure rather than the Redknapp 2.0 approach we are using but it does say something

I agree its possible he is declining, I don't think he has done as well as last year. A far more likely scenario in my view is that he is being blamed for the deficits of our midfield more generally. He is expected to be the ball winner but now also expected to be creative and score too. The second two were never his strengths.

Truth is our midfield is lacking creativity big time. We are missing Ruben (who was the catalyst of our turnaround last season) much more than we know. Jorginho isn't creative he is a system player. Beyond taking a good penalty I don't actually know what he is really adding to our team in an attacking sense. Kante does his role for France with no issues whatsoever.

Kovacic has shown signs of improvement but now can't get on the pitch and Mount is pretty much there because he presses rather than any other attributes.

Make no mistake these issues go much deeper than Kante and any of the top CL contenders would bite our hand off for him and he'd happily go off and win them a Champions League if we continue down this road.

He is up there, realistically right behind Mount that is probably our most creative midfield player. But Jorginho is also doing a lot of defensive work he isn't focusing on just attacking.

Our conversion rate is very poor, make no mistake without Jorginho we would be way worse, below the level of Sheffield I imagine, like Southampton...

[ducavis]

16 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

He is up there, realistically right behind Mount that is probably our most creative midfield player. But Jorginho is also doing a lot of defensive work he isn't focusing on just attacking.

Our conversion rate is very poor, make no mistake without Jorginho we would be way worse, below the level of Sheffield I imagine, like Southampton...

Mount is a creative midfielder? Sorry but he isn’t, creatively he is way Barkley who I am not a fan of & RLC.

[icecoolguy22]

To be honest, Arsenal didn't look like scoring until that moment of madness and slip, if somehow we manage to forgive that slip, Kante did an 6/10 job solidifying the midfield. He plays and usually does well in so called big games like this, and the setup is to play a bit safe, until that moment we have managed the game well. He went off, we scored and couldn't even hold on for a couple of minutes, there was nobody covering the back 4. Right now, we don't have the balance in midfield, I reckon RLC will be the solution if he's fit and ready, he offers that strength, creativity and a goal or two, and you just need Kante to stay behind and does more of the unsung hero work.

[Gol15]

1 hour ago, ducavis said:

Mount is a creative midfielder? Sorry but he isn’t, creatively he is way Barkley who I am not a fan of & RLC.

IMO he is. He's great for his age as well. Tammy and him are burned out I think but when they are fresh they create chances and goals, Pulisic too.

 

[robdog]

Kante has a good outing for Leicester - he saved out bacon a couple of times when The Foxes broke forward - then he did this at the end of the match - had Evans spinning around like a table top

 

[Ballack & Blu]

13 minutes ago, robdog said:

Kante has a good outing for Leicester - he saved out bacon a couple of times when The Foxes broke forward - then he did this at the end of the match - had Evans spinning around like a table top

 

The end of that video really shows an early pass is on across the box, but he gets closed down.

[Davey Baby]

He's an untouchable, wrongly so. Simple as that.