The big issue now is when he is not available who fills the gap or do we change the whole system back to 433/4231 and bring in Terry? 

12 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

The big issue now is when he is not available who fills the gap or do we change the whole system back to 433/4231 and bring in Terry? 

Zouma or Ivanovic surely?

I have to be honest in that I wasn't happy at all with him coming back. Over the last few years I'd only seen him get worse defensively with a catalogue of high profile errors in the CL, World Cup etc. And after the defeats to Liverpool and especially Arsenal my view hadn't changed. However, he has been nothing short of faultless since we switched to the 3-4-3, a system which fits him perfectly it seems. If he can continue in this way then I'll be more than happy to admit that I was wrong! But it's still early days of course.

I was pretty skeptical but the guy has matured a lot after PSG. Hope he continues in the same vein.

23 minutes ago, Celery1989 said:

I have to be honest in that I wasn't happy at all with him coming back. Over the last few years I'd only seen him get worse defensively with a catalogue of high profile errors in the CL, World Cup etc. And after the defeats to Liverpool and especially Arsenal my view hadn't changed. However, he has been nothing short of faultless since we switched to the 3-4-3, a system which fits him perfectly it seems. If he can continue in this way then I'll be more than happy to admit that I was wrong! But it's still early days of course.

I think he makes no more errors than most other progressive centre backs, it's just for some reason the media love scapegoating him, I've seen plenty of errors from the likes of Ramos, Hummels, Pique, Kompany, all of these players who are lauded for being the best in the world. They all make defensive errors from time to time, it's just for some reason people love hanging over Luiz for them

 

Agree with the above, plus I can't remember anything wrong that he did in those defeats to Liverpool and Arsenal.

Now, saying that, we all know his history and know what he's capable of doing, good and bad. So there'll always be that element of doubt and a media just waiting for him to make any error that they can pounce on. Hopefully they won't get that chance.

1 hour ago, RMCM said:

Zouma or Ivanovic surely?

Don't think Zouma has the ball playing ability to play the Central role in a back 3, similar issue with Ivanovic but I think he would be preferred on the right of the back 3 if anything were to happen to Dave or Moses.

I just think without Luiz that system will not be as effective, we have cover for each position bar Luiz hence why he is so important to make the system work.

8 minutes ago, Imran_CFC said:

Don't think Zouma has the ball playing ability to play the Central role in a back 3, similar issue with Ivanovic but I think he would be preferred on the right of the back 3 if anything were to happen to Dave or Moses.

I just think without Luiz that system will not be as effective, we have cover for each position bar Luiz hence why he is so important to make the system work.

Chalobah, could on theory play there. 

If Luiz had made the derps that Cahill made earlier this season then there would be a pitchfork wielding mob led by the Mail out for his head, but because it wasn't Luiz it's forgotten about in a week. 

19 hours ago, RMCM said:

I think he makes no more errors than most other progressive centre backs, it's just for some reason the media love scapegoating him, I've seen plenty of errors from the likes of Ramos, Hummels, Pique, Kompany, all of these players who are lauded for being the best in the world. They all make defensive errors from time to time, it's just for some reason people love hanging over Luiz for them

 

Godin and Bonucci have both made more defensive errors in the last 4 seasons then Luiz.

16 minutes ago, RMCM said:

If Luiz had made the derps that Cahill made earlier this season then there would be a pitchfork wielding mob led by the Mail out for his head, but because it wasn't Luiz it's forgotten about in a week. 

Don't think anyone has forgotten Cahills gaffes. But this is a post win forum. Wait til a worse result and you'll see it hasn't been forgotten

11 minutes ago, pacquiao said:

Godin and Bonucci have both made more defensive errors in the last 4 seasons then Luiz.

I'd be incredibly careful about using one of the stats websites to count something as unquantifiable as a defensive error.

18 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

Don't think Zouma has the ball playing ability to play the Central role in a back 3, similar issue with Ivanovic but I think he would be preferred on the right of the back 3 if anything were to happen to Dave or Moses.

I just think without Luiz that system will not be as effective, we have cover for each position bar Luiz hence why he is so important to make the system work.

Chelsea play a back 3 because they spent 30m on Luiz and he has to play. Luiz can't play in a back 4 so you have to play a back 3 and there's the protection of Matic and Kante.

On his performances he has played very well.

9 minutes ago, Ernie_blue said:

Chelsea play a back 3 because they spent 30m on Luiz and he has to play. Luiz can't play in a back 4 so you have to play a back 3 and there's the protection of Matic and Kante.

On his performances he has played very well.

I don't think we're playing a back three because we spent money on Luiz, we are playing a back three because it's a system that's getting the best out of our entire squad

21 hours ago, Imran_CFC said:

The big issue now is when he is not available who fills the gap or do we change the whole system back to 433/4231 and bring in Terry? 

 

21 hours ago, RMCM said:

Zouma or Ivanovic surely?

No, neither have the technical ability, especially not Ivanovic. 

I reckon Azpi could actually do a decent job there, in truth. He hasn't got David Luiz's playmaking abilities, but he's a decent passer, has decent ball control, can contribute going forward and more importantly is really good at making interceptions. He would IMO also be a better pure defensive sweeper than Luiz, when such is required, because he's very difficult to get past. You would have to play Zouma as the RCB though, with Cahill on the left. 

As for Luiz himself, the libero is IMO his most ideal position in the backline. It exploits his passing, vision, technique, powers of anticipation and ability going forward while putting less pressure on him to actually defend. That his defensive positioning has always been a bit hairy is problematic, but it's less of a problem with two other centre backs, especially if one is as defensively adept as Azpi. 

If both David Luiz and Azpi are absent, I would switch to a back 4 but would gamble with Aina on the right instead of Ivanovic. Of course, this is assuming we wouldn't buy a stopgap RB in January. 

Edited October 25, 20169 yr by DaRick

If we need cover for Luiz, look no further than Chalobah.

 

2 hours ago, RMCM said:

I don't think we're playing a back three because we spent money on Luiz, we are playing a back three because it's a system that's getting the best out of our entire squad

 

Edited October 25, 20169 yr by Imran_CFC

He's been commanding and absolutely fantastic so far. His new role seems to fit him perfectly.

A lot of people should hang their heads in shame the stick they gave luiz coming back who if anything has been a loyal solider, if you scroll back here I said he will prove a lot of doubters wrong, he had matured and conte will get some discipline drilled into him, we need a wall of shame for some of the ultra pessimists here  to keep a healthy non Arsenal balance  

2 hours ago, RMCM said:

I don't think we're playing a back three because we spent money on Luiz, we are playing a back three because it's a system that's getting the best out of our entire squad

You have basically said the same thing there.

Chelsea play a back 3 because that's the best position for Luiz. Luiz has to  play when you have spent 30m on a defender. What you said was the same

He's not a defender, he's a midfielder playing extremely deep.

 

11 minutes ago, coco said:

He's not a defender, he's a midfielder playing extremely deep.

 

I had forgotten about Chalobah, because he plays in midfield so often these days. He may well be perfect for the role, because he's shown himself to be a good, technically-minded ball-player with some inventiveness going forward (ask Victor Moses and Leicester LOL).  

I must admit that I don't know that much about Chalobah's defensive traits through. I know he was praised years ago for "positioning, composure and tactical awareness...for a player of his age.", but his tendency to foul and play a box-to-box role was noted. You do not want your sweeper continually fouling opponents, especially if they're the last man to pass. Has he refined this aspect of his game since? 

Have his defensive traits improved any since then? Are they at least comparable to Luiz? 

1 hour ago, Ernie_blue said:

You have basically said the same thing there.

Chelsea play a back 3 because that's the best position for Luiz. Luiz has to  play when you have spent 30m on a defender. What you said was the same

No, it really isn't, I don't want to sound sarky but that is just plain wrong, and i don't see how you could interpret what I said as that. Chelsea play a back three because it allows us to get the most out of all the players at our disposal, and is a system that Conte is known to prefer. Luiz fits it beautifully, no doubt, but saying we play a back 3 because we dropped money on him is silly.

3 minutes ago, RMCM said:

No, it really isn't, I don't want to sound sarky but that is just plain wrong, and i don't see how you could interpret what I said as that. Chelsea play a back three because it allows us to get the most out of all the players at our disposal, and is a system that Conte is known to prefer. Luiz fits it beautifully, no doubt, but saying we play a back 3 because we dropped money on him is silly.

Well Luiz can't play a back 4 and he can't be dropped.

1 minute ago, Ernie_blue said:

Well Luiz can't play a back 4 and he can't be dropped.

Why can't he be dropped? And he's played in a back 4 for the other 10 years of his pro career. . . . 

You really aren't making sense with this