1 minute ago, evissy said:

Don't try to sugarcoat it. Kovacic was awful/average today. 

You can say that so was all of  the Chelsea team. City is simply better. Your comparison holds  no water as they play different positions. De Bruyne is the best attacking midfielder in the world and it’s not close. 

@Dean looking like you’ll be making that donation to the site mate😂 Still want to ride it out until the end of the season for the title challenge 😆?

8 minutes ago, evissy said:

Don't try to sugarcoat it. Kovacic was awful/average today. 

Kante was worse

2 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

@Dean looking like you’ll be making that donation to the site mate😂 Still want to ride it out until the end of the season for the title challenge 😆?

Sure we’re not gonna challenge for the title so I lose. I’ll make the donation anyway in due course. Would be nice to hear yo say though if we’re not challenging for the title, it’s not coz of Kovacic! 

32 minutes ago, evissy said:

De Bruyne > Kovacic

 

 

Strawman argument of the season!

He was poor only because City's tactic was to suffocate the life out of him and Kante. 

Our front three did not help him relieve the pressure at all

can’t believe people are using Kova as a scapegoat today. Yes he nearly gifted Grealish a goal but he managed his game well after the early booking. 

I think he got frustrated today with his and the teams inability to influence the game.  Not going to single him out - almost first name on the team sheet.  

20 minutes ago, Kova17 said:

You can say that so was all of  the Chelsea team. City is simply better. Your comparison holds  no water as they play different positions. De Bruyne is the best attacking midfielder in the world and it’s not close. 

Look, you throw ideas Kovacic is one of the best midfielders. I say he isn't. Today showed it once more. Team sport absolutely. De Bruyne singlehandedly decided the game and the title. That is what the best players in the world do.

3 minutes ago, Deino said:

He was poor only because City's tactic was to suffocate the life out of him and Kante. 

Our front three did not help him relieve the pressure at all

City press is just relentless. Only similar I can think of is when Pep was at Barcelona. Lukaku missed a great chance but him not being able to hold the ball up at all was a killer. He lost every duel to La Porte and Stones. That can’t happen. 

6 minutes ago, evissy said:

Look, you throw ideas Kovacic is one of the best midfielders. I say he isn't. Today showed it once more. Team sport absolutely. De Bruyne singlehandedly decided the game and the title. That is what the best players in the world do.

Again your proving my point. I already told you he’s the best attacking midfield player in the world just like Kante is one of the best central midfield players in the world. Mount is Chelsea best attacking midfield player and De Bruyne is easily a class above him.  You wanna say Kovacic was poor today that’s fair but so was the whole Chelsea team. 

Edited January 15, 20224 yr by Kova17

1 minute ago, Deino said:

He was poor only because City's tactic was to suffocate the life out of him and Kante. 

Our front three did not help him relieve the pressure at all

Yeah I think what is often missed is that the accumulation of ball losses and unforced errors by the front 3 has real consequences on overall performance, as everyone has to work harder, the midfield bears the brunt of it, so Kova and Kante are just knackered by the end. I love how it’s always crickets from the naysayers when Kova plays well and as soon as we / he get overturned (in this case by the best club side there is probably), they pounce. If Kova isn’t anywhere near world class based on today’s performance, then nor is Kante. I maintain that both are world class and if you’d swapped Kova for a city midfielder ex-de bruyne, the game wouldn’t have looked much different and that city midfielder would have struggled too. 

6 minutes ago, evissy said:

Look, you throw ideas Kovacic is one of the best midfielders. I say he isn't. Today showed it once more. Team sport absolutely. De Bruyne singlehandedly decided the game and the title. That is what the best players in the world do.

Come on. It’s a cheap strawman argument. Nobody ever said Kova was as good as de Bruyne. And I’m going to stick my neck out and say I still think, despite not being as good, he’s one of the best midfielders in the league and would walk into most teams.

35 minutes ago, Deino said:

He was poor only because City's tactic was to suffocate the life out of him and Kante. 

Our front three did not help him relieve the pressure at all

Spot on. After the back 3, Kovacic was our best player today. Both he and Kante had no help from the wing backs and forward players. Like you say, they were suffocated.

Edited January 15, 20224 yr by Scott Harris

1 hour ago, Scott Harris said:

Spot on. After the back 3, Kovacic was our best player today. Both he and Kante had no help from the wing backs and forward players. Like you say, they were suffocated.

Yeah I’m kind of surprised he’s even a talking point really, and this thread should really be dormant. When we lose and perform badly, we seek to identify the problem/s. It couldn’t be clearer what the problem areas were. Front 3, wing backs, Tuchel… midfield and back three right at the bottom of the blame game pecking order. For me the die was cast early on when ziyech and Lukaku failed to take great opportunities to hurt or at least scare City. My heart sank and TT was right to be livid. Coz that was a powerful signal to City that they had little to fear from our attack and they seized the initiative. Could have been a different game otherwise. 

2 hours ago, Deino said:

He was poor only because City's tactic was to suffocate the life out of him and Kante. 

Our front three did not help him relieve the pressure at all

I think he actually did pretty well in the first half, until that mistake. Second half was a different story.

Edited January 15, 20224 yr by wizardous

3 hours ago, Kova17 said:

Kovacic is a central mid while De Bruyne is an attacking mid. Kovacic worked his socks off today and set up the best chance of the game. Had a couple bad turnovers and won quite a few balls in midfield. 

2 best chances, don't forget about the ball that put Grealish through to pull a Lukaku.

20 hours ago, axman2526 said:

2 best chances, don't forget about the ball that put Grealish through to pull a Lukaku.

Yep bad turnover there tried to squeeze a pass to Kante under tremendous pressure. Should have just hoofed up field. That press though is relentless. 

21 hours ago, wizardous said:

I think he actually did pretty well in the first half, until that mistake. Second half was a different story.

Yeah was just so drained though. Second half he did still have a couple of great ball wins and the pass to Lukaku was as good as the one v Villa if there was a goal on the end of it. Wasn’t to be unfortunately. 

On 15/01/2022 at 15:00, Dean said:

Sure we’re not gonna challenge for the title so I lose. I’ll make the donation anyway in due course. Would be nice to hear yo say though if we’re not challenging for the title, it’s not coz of Kovacic! 

It’s not to be fair, he’s played very well this year in the most part. I do still believe that central midfield isn’t a title winning one with both he and Jorginho even Kante. You need at least someone in there who can provide something at the top end of the park especially with our dodgy forward line!

I know Jorginho is a good footballer but his lack of physically in the centre of the pitch is a massive shortcoming to his game and Kova’s inability to provide goals and assists is another. They’re good players, I just don’t think when combined they’re title winning players unfortunately.

14 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It’s not to be fair, he’s played very well this year in the most part. I do still believe that central midfield isn’t a title winning one with both he and Jorginho even Kante. You need at least someone in there who can provide something at the top end of the park especially with our dodgy forward line!

I know Jorginho is a good footballer but his lack of physically in the centre of the pitch is a massive shortcoming to his game and Kova’s inability to provide goals and assists is another. They’re good players, I just don’t think when combined they’re title winning players unfortunately.

If we had a decent attack we would be very much in the title race since our midfield is good enough and the defense for the most part since Tuchel has been good enough as well.

5 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It’s not to be fair, he’s played very well this year in the most part. I do still believe that central midfield isn’t a title winning one with both he and Jorginho even Kante. You need at least someone in there who can provide something at the top end of the park especially with our dodgy forward line!

I know Jorginho is a good footballer but his lack of physically in the centre of the pitch is a massive shortcoming to his game and Kova’s inability to provide goals and assists is another. They’re good players, I just don’t think when combined they’re title winning players unfortunately.

Thanks for this measured response. Slightly disagree in that, if you swapped our front 3 with Liverpool’s I’m pretty sure we’d be challenging.I’d also argue that Kovacic if at Liverpool would start most games if fit (not just my assessment but Klopp rates him highly), and you could play Kovacic and probably Jorginho in Man City’s midfield and I’m pretty sure they’d still win the title. Kovacic could certainly do the job in the city midfield. This isn’t anything that can proven of course, so kind of moot. I think what I got wrong about us this year -— 

- primarily, I overestimated our attack. Extrapolated the form of Havertz and expected Werner to come good. Didn’t have a strong view on Lukaku either way but thought he’d at least score goals.

- got carried away with the CL win which I now view as a potential curse (not that I’d change it or anything).

I / we had some bad luck losing both our first-choice fullbacks…
 

But now I’m just making excuses:). You win the bet and if by some miracle we do narrow the gap to within whatever the parameters were, I’ll see it as having donated to a very worthy  cause indeed. Who do I contact re donation?

21 minutes ago, EdinburghBlue said:

It’s not to be fair, he’s played very well this year in the most part. I do still believe that central midfield isn’t a title winning one with both he and Jorginho even Kante. You need at least someone in there who can provide something at the top end of the park especially with our dodgy forward line!

I know Jorginho is a good footballer but his lack of physically in the centre of the pitch is a massive shortcoming to his game and Kova’s inability to provide goals and assists is another. They’re good players, I just don’t think when combined they’re title winning players unfortunately.

One further thing I got wrong: I underestimated City… by a lot, perhaps reading too much into our record against them last season. 

8 hours ago, Dean said:

One further thing I got wrong: I underestimated City… by a lot, perhaps reading too much into our record against them last season. 

Don't think you're alone in that Dean. Looks like they are going to piss the PL this season which I didn't expect.

8 hours ago, Dean said:

One further thing I got wrong: I underestimated City… by a lot, perhaps reading too much into our record against them last season. 

Say what you want about Pep being a chequebook manager but he is the best at what he does currently.