20 minutes ago, opinionsarelike said:

Is that why Guardiola beat the points record by some distance playing a style many deem as indirect, with many small and physically not-so-big players?

Even he was forced to change his ways and mix it up.......they play fast and direct, they swarm you when they press and pass and play at a high rate. And last season the competition was whack and he got to spend immense amount which helps alot. Now they might pass more than many other title Winners, but they do it at a fast rate, something which is needed in epl. And you dont have to be a monster to have power, Kante aint big, makalele wasnt a brute. You have to be tough and get stuck in.

Edited January 6, 20197 yr by atomis

1 hour ago, opinionsarelike said:

Is that why Guardiola beat the points record by some distance playing a style many deem as indirect, with many small and physically not-so-big players?

This is a myth, watch Man City, they play a high pressing, direct, physical game. Look at how fast they get the ball forward, they don’t dick about passing around the back, look at the pace in their team!

This isn’t a Pep team from 7-8 years ago with arguably the best player in the world to rely on, this is a well drilled team, that relies on its strengths, which in the main is pace.

Man City's style is to pass until you find openings. Luckily for them, they are very well drilled (took a year, watch Guardiola's first year for measure - they had plenty of Southampton-games ...), which makes it so that they always have moving targets to hit passes to. The system is the same as all of Guardiola's teams; it is to take control of the ball, never let the opponent get it, and if you lose it you're chasing the ball as hard as you can. That is Sarri's vision of football as well, as a matter of fact he's looked at as a more direct version of Guardiola with his buzzword-esque term "vertical tiki-taka". But it will take time, and there will be games where it will look stale.

I'll give you one thing, though, and that is that Guardiola truly understands the value of pace and width. Their two wingers are electric, and hugs the touchline when they don't have the ball. Once they get the ball, they seek to the middle, only to be overlapped by two electric full backs. We have Hazard and Willian on the flanks, or "flanks", because they don't stay wide. Hazard can be excused, he's good enough for it to work most of the time, but Willian serves very little purpose offensively in our team. As far as our full backs go, we have Alonso who I reckon is slower than dirt, and always looks to underlap, whilst Azpilicueta isn't much of a threat going forward.

This is my major gripe with Sarri; he sticks with players who I, at least, think as so far off of his vision of high octane football. It's the same mistake Conte and Mourinho made, trusting players who does not perform and/or doesn't fit the system. If anything, that will be his downfall, not his system or style, because that has already proven itself in the Premiership.

Edited January 6, 20197 yr by opinionsarelike

On 06/01/2019 at 22:09, opinionsarelike said:

Man City's style is to pass until you find openings. Luckily for them, they are very well drilled (took a year, watch Guardiola's first year for measure - they had plenty of Southampton-games ...), which makes it so that they always have moving targets to hit passes to. The system is the same as all of Guardiola's teams; it is to take control of the ball, never let the opponent get it, and if you lose it you're chasing the ball as hard as you can. That is Sarri's vision of football as well, as a matter of fact he's looked at as a more direct version of Guardiola with his buzzword-esque term "vertical tiki-taka". But it will take time, and there will be games where it will look stale.

I'll give you one thing, though, and that is that Guardiola truly understands the value of pace and width. Their two wingers are electric, and hugs the touchline when they don't have the ball. Once they get the ball, they seek to the middle, only to be overlapped by two electric full backs. We have Hazard and Willian on the flanks, or "flanks", because they don't stay wide. Hazard can be excused, he's good enough for it to work most of the time, but Willian serves very little purpose offensively in our team. As far as our full backs go, we have Alonso who I reckon is slower than dirt, and always looks to underlap, whilst Azpilicueta isn't much of a threat going forward.

This is my major gripe with Sarri; he sticks with players who I, at least, think as so far off of his vision of high octane football. It's the same mistake Conte and Mourinho made, trusting players who does not perform and/or doesn't fit the system. If anything, that will be his downfall, not his system or style, because that has already proven itself in the Premiership.

looking like a pretty good post to me 

29 minutes ago, M.M.B said:

looking like a pretty good post to me 

Valid points but it is unclear as to who Sarri could use as full backs that would be more effective. We've seen Emerson can be more effective that Alonso going forward, and he seems to have been given that chance recently. On the flipside he may also have his own limitations, we shall see. But who do we have at Right Back who fits the requirements? I think most on here (myself included) don't rate Zappacosta as good enough to be a regular starter. Moses was decent in Conte's system but didn't seem to fit well in the new system, and has now left. Ola Aina is doing well in Serie A and I would be interested to see how he does if he ever returns to Chelsea. But in the short term we have Azpi only realistically.

I agree Willian doesn't tend to stay on the flank although, as others have mentioned on different threads, he is not really a natural winger and may be better in the middle anyway. I'm not sure why Hazard should be let off so easily though. Just because he is an outstanding player doesn't mean he should have carte blanche to play in his own system. Isn't that what Sarri was hinting at recently?

I would give Willian a try as our third midfielder and play 2 out of Pedro/CHO/Hazard on the wings. At least Willian would chime in with a few goals from Mid.  

On 06/01/2019 at 22:09, opinionsarelike said:

Man City's style is to pass until you find openings. Luckily for them, they are very well drilled (took a year, watch Guardiola's first year for measure - they had plenty of Southampton-games ...), which makes it so that they always have moving targets to hit passes to. The system is the same as all of Guardiola's teams; it is to take control of the ball, never let the opponent get it, and if you lose it you're chasing the ball as hard as you can. That is Sarri's vision of football as well, as a matter of fact he's looked at as a more direct version of Guardiola with his buzzword-esque term "vertical tiki-taka". But it will take time, and there will be games where it will look stale.

I'll give you one thing, though, and that is that Guardiola truly understands the value of pace and width. Their two wingers are electric, and hugs the touchline when they don't have the ball. Once they get the ball, they seek to the middle, only to be overlapped by two electric full backs. We have Hazard and Willian on the flanks, or "flanks", because they don't stay wide. Hazard can be excused, he's good enough for it to work most of the time, but Willian serves very little purpose offensively in our team. As far as our full backs go, we have Alonso who I reckon is slower than dirt, and always looks to underlap, whilst Azpilicueta isn't much of a threat going forward.

This is my major gripe with Sarri; he sticks with players who I, at least, think as so far off of his vision of high octane football. It's the same mistake Conte and Mourinho made, trusting players who does not perform and/or doesn't fit the system. If anything, that will be his downfall, not his system or style, because that has already proven itself in the Premiership.

I don't really like the Guardiola and Sarri comparison, I prefer the one for Klopp, purely because Guardiola had a ridiculous advantage in financial backing. He walked into a great team full of world-class players and got a full summer to spend 200 million on the best wingbacks of his choice. 

Sarri will not get that, Klopp didn't get that to start with. 

But besides that I agree with everything in your post, the major gripe with Sarri is playing the same players constantly, the likes of Hazard and Willian are too slow with th ball. When Hazard first came to Chelsea he didn't take as much time with the ball, that's why I believe he can fully adapt but it's up to him. 

It looks like he can be on his way out and with the performances he's putting in lately I don't think his heart is in it anymore, that's fine with me he can go if that's the case. We should back Sarri over anyone just about now, I'm sick to death of picking the players over the manager, it does nothing for us. Yes we have won a lot of silverware but we always go bust like no other team, when do other teams go bust like we do? How many times have we went from winning the league to finishing in 6th place? We went from winning the league to finishing 10th, what team even does that? Even Leciester finished higher after their title win.  Sarri has a gameplan, we hired him to implement this vision of football, so we need to stick with him, how could we possibly expect him to muster up something instantly? I understand we are used to instant success at times but this is different. This will take much more transition, this is similar to when Carlo Ancelotti left and we had an average age of 30 in the squad and 0 creativity. This time it's not about the age or creativity it's about the way we've been playing for years, counter-attacking defensive football, under Conte, Di Matteo, Rafa and Mourinho for roughly 6 years now... And we've had a back 3 for 2 years. This is going to take time, yes it looks like top 4 is out of the question, but tough luck, we can't sack a manager over that in just his first season with so many variables like I just listed. 

It'll be another rough season but we need to do something different for once, accept slow progress, even if it means selling Hazard. 

39 minutes ago, Slojo said:

I don't really like the Guardiola and Sarri comparison, I prefer the one for Klopp, purely because Guardiola had a ridiculous advantage in financial backing. He walked into a great team full of world-class players and got a full summer to spend 200 million on the best wingbacks of his choice. 

Sarri will not get that, Klopp didn't get that to start with. 

But besides that I agree with everything in your post, the major gripe with Sarri is playing the same players constantly, the likes of Hazard and Willian are too slow with th ball. When Hazard first came to Chelsea he didn't take as much time with the ball, that's why I believe he can fully adapt but it's up to him. 

It looks like he can be on his way out and with the performances he's putting in lately I don't think his heart is in it anymore, that's fine with me he can go if that's the case. We should back Sarri over anyone just about now, I'm sick to death of picking the players over the manager, it does nothing for us. Yes we have won a lot of silverware but we always go bust like no other team, when do other teams go bust like we do? How many times have we went from winning the league to finishing in 6th place? We went from winning the league to finishing 10th, what team even does that? Even Leciester finished higher after their title win.  Sarri has a gameplan, we hired him to implement this vision of football, so we need to stick with him, how could we possibly expect him to muster up something instantly? I understand we are used to instant success at times but this is different. This will take much more transition, this is similar to when Carlo Ancelotti left and we had an average age of 30 in the squad and 0 creativity. This time it's not about the age or creativity it's about the way we've been playing for years, counter-attacking defensive football, under Conte, Di Matteo, Rafa and Mourinho for roughly 6 years now... And we've had a back 3 for 2 years. This is going to take time, yes it looks like top 4 is out of the question, but tough luck, we can't sack a manager over that in just his first season with so many variables like I just listed. 

It'll be another rough season but we need to do something different for once, accept slow progress, even if it means selling Hazard. 

I hope we stick with him. Get through this season, & try to get the players he may want. Maybe he will integrate C.H.O & R.L.C  into the team.

I think some of the players need to be moved on..willian & hazard. Its all to slow when they are on the ball. Great players. But even terry, lampard, & A cole had to leave. 

  

15 hours ago, M.M.B said:

I hope we stick with him. Get through this season, & try to get the players he may want. Maybe he will integrate C.H.O & R.L.C  into the team.

I think some of the players need to be moved on..willian & hazard. Its all to slow when they are on the ball. Great players. But even terry, lampard, & A cole had to leave. 

  

We certainly need some genuine pace rather than stop and start up front. CHO should provide that yet wouldn't be in a rush to lose both Hazard and Willian in one season.

Through years of poor decisions, poor signings and lack of leadership, we have found ourself essentially becoming the new Arsenal. We have a squad of players, some of which were bought for this system, some for others, at least half of whom are simply not good enough. Conte's title really papered over the cracks of an average squad, which was then made worse the next season.

If we sack Sarri now, nothing will change. We'll move to another style, another system, with most of the players not suited to it or not good enough for it. Not that I think he's really the right person for the job, he's shown he has no idea how to change things that aren't working.

City and Liverpool are miles ahead of us now and will just continue to improve. Spurs are now a level above us as well. We're fighting with an in-form Utd and Arsenal for that 1 position, and we're not going to get it. Another season without CL football is a huge blow in recruitment-terms, we don't be able to attract the kind of player to propel us back towards the top, unless we recruit really well, which we rarely do any more.

I'm afraid we are in for a long period of Arsenal-like disappointment and humiliating defeats.

Sitting 6th in February on the back of a 6-0 humiliation weeks after a 4-0 thumping.

Sarri’s first season isn’t looking very good at all. We do have a cup final but against a team that’s just put 6 past us. 

Down to a 4/10 for me 

Our only chance against Citee is that they underestimate us in the final.

You would hope as the manager gets more time with the players, things will increasingly look better, but they are looking worse every week

Personally I'd like to see a manager who knows the EPL and has a record of bringing through young talent rather just relying on using expensive imports. I'd like to see more home grown players in our team / squad. And I'd hope he would be more tactically astute and more flexible with his formation than Sarri.

6 minutes ago, just said:

Personally I'd like to see a manager who knows the EPL and has a record of bringing through young talent rather just relying on using expensive imports. I'd like to see more home grown players in our team / squad. And I'd hope he would be more tactically astute and more flexible with his formation than Sarri.

I don't think it matters who the manager is, if they are not going to be given the time. To bring in the youngsters, which we all want, would require the 'new manager' be given a contract and told he will have the time without the pressure of winning something, i.e patience. Unfortunately I don't see any Chelsea manager will be given the time by the board or the fans.

Sorry but this what everyone wanted. I distinctly remember most fukers on here wanting to see possession and attacking football and would be quite happy to lose trying. You got what you wanted so fck off.

Sarri is not a winner, he played good football with Napoli but they didnt win anything. Conte on the otherhand was a serial winner..4 leagues..3 Italien and then PL on the trot. At the same time

Conte was not stupid..he knew he couldnt play attacking football with these sh!t players..so he adapted and pulled a miracle winning the league and fa cup. If he was backed in the tfr market im sure he would have made the style slightly more expansive. 

Any manager who has ever won anything is able to adapt..has different strategies for different games..changes tactics. Sarri hasnt changed once..in fact ive never seen a coach this stubborn. Hence, why hel never win anything. 

Sarri has repeatedly criticised the players in public in the last month. The only other coach whose done that is Morinho..but as a player youd rather take that criticism from one of the most successful managerd ever. Not a former banker smoker whose never won anything. 

Sarri has had the worst start then all managers in last 16 years..including scolari and AVB. 

He is playing the greatest defensive midfielder weve ever seen out of position. Its because of Kante Leicester, Chelsea and France won the fcking league and world cup. What do you do? Start playing him right wing ahahahaha.

But its ok everyone wanted lovely attacking football. 

He is out of his depth on so many levels..tactics, ability to change a game, player selection, motivating, handling press..endless list. 

Chelsea have never looked this spineless..he has singlehandedly taken away the identity of Chelsea FC. 

Give him time? For what ..hes never won anything. Klopp and Guardiola at least won so they were working towards something and always demonstrated competencies in key skills that Sarri has failed miserably in already. 

20 hours ago, El_Phenomeno said:

Sorry but this what everyone wanted. I distinctly remember most fukers on here wanting to see possession and attacking football and would be quite happy to lose trying. You got what you wanted so fck off.

Sarri is not a winner, he played good football with Napoli but they didnt win anything. Conte on the otherhand was a serial winner..4 leagues..3 Italien and then PL on the trot. At the same time

Conte was not stupid..he knew he couldnt play attacking football with these sh!t players..so he adapted and pulled a miracle winning the league and fa cup. If he was backed in the tfr market im sure he would have made the style slightly more expansive. 

Any manager who has ever won anything is able to adapt..has different strategies for different games..changes tactics. Sarri hasnt changed once..in fact ive never seen a coach this stubborn. Hence, why hel never win anything. 

Sarri has repeatedly criticised the players in public in the last month. The only other coach whose done that is Morinho..but as a player youd rather take that criticism from one of the most successful managerd ever. Not a former banker smoker whose never won anything. 

Sarri has had the worst start then all managers in last 16 years..including scolari and AVB. 

He is playing the greatest defensive midfielder weve ever seen out of position. Its because of Kante Leicester, Chelsea and France won the fcking league and world cup. What do you do? Start playing him right wing ahahahaha.

But its ok everyone wanted lovely attacking football. 

He is out of his depth on so many levels..tactics, ability to change a game, player selection, motivating, handling press..endless list. 

Chelsea have never looked this spineless..he has singlehandedly taken away the identity of Chelsea FC. 

Give him time? For what ..hes never won anything. Klopp and Guardiola at least won so they were working towards something and always demonstrated competencies in key skills that Sarri has failed miserably in already. 

Some real nonsense in here.

Kante is the greatest defensive midfielder ever? Makelele literally had the position named after him he was that good.

Sarri had the worst start out of all our managers? Pretty sure he set a record for his winning/undefeated streak at the beginning. Dont rewrite history.

Personally Im disappointed that we don't appear to be making progress, and playing Kante out of position is a big frustration for me too, but some of what you've written is absurd. What identity has Chelsea had for the last few years? It's not that Sarri has taken it away, it's the constant changing of managers and 'philosophies', its the risk-free strategy of buying players and loaning them out if they dont make an impact, it's the constant turmoil that surrounds our club. Thats why we dont have an identity. It's not the guy whos only been here for 7/8 months.

The problems are what theyve always been. Short term thinking, short term solutions and no long term plan. Losing highly capable youngsters as our managers dont dare play them when theyre in danger of being sacked, all of this has happened before. The squad are comfortable. They know when they dont like the manager they can just down tools for a while and get someone new in. Zero heart in tough times, which has been the theme for years now.

So much needs changing at this club, the manager is the easy option and the one most likely, but in reality the board need to look at how they run things and consider the role the playing squad has on our huge downturns in form every so often.  It cant keep happening like this, and yet, the trophy haul suggests it will continue to anyway

 

22 hours ago, nominator said:

Our only chance against Citee is that they underestimate us in the final.

Or the ref does us a favour with a dodgy red against City.

We could of course play a counter-attacking game yet .................................

Edited February 11, 20197 yr by Strider6003

Awful

Disappointing but also expected, he has a really hard job and it's a shame others can't realise this. 

I propose that he's inadvertently become the victim of his initial surprise success, back in November before the goals dried up we were comfortably in the top 4, Arse & Scum didn't look like they could challenge at all, was happy days. 3 months later and its 6th on the back of a 6 nil hiding and lots fans calling for his head/ say hes clueless etc. , IF we had an equally frustrating 1st 3 1/2 months of the season and were sitting 5 or 6th just before Xmas the recent turn of events wouldn't be such a shocker, BUT now we've all mentally adjusted to getting in the top 4 and CL football back Sarri looks like a bigger disappointment then he actually may be.  When he came back in August a lot of us had the expectation of a transitional season with a 6th or 5th place finish likely, me included. So has that expectation really changed- I say no, give the man at least a season & some of HIS signings before grading his performance/ knee jerk reacting.

It hasn't been pretty but that also is what should be expected when you are trying to change a team that has played defensive football for several years into an attacking-passing team. 

On ?11?/?02?/?2019 at 20:50, Frankie8Lampard said:

It hasn't been pretty but that also is what should be expected when you are trying to change a team that has played defensive football for several years into an attacking-passing team. 

Yes and with just one player change, just two now if you include Higuaín. 

We might look back and say this was madness, this months fixtures should give us a better indicator of that. 

On 10/02/2019 at 19:08, El_Phenomeno said:

 

Sarri has had the worst start then all managers in last 16 years..including scolari and AVB. 

 

You wrote a lot of sh*t but this bit made me laugh the most. I'm sure Sarri went unbeaten for god knows how many games at the start of the season and was setting Chelsea records?

Yes I recall looking on bounder friar dale site and after 10 matches I think he was No. 2, though obviously he has slipped down the last month.