37 minutes ago, ForeverCarefree said:

More have than haven't. 

1 Alan Shearer - Blackburn

2 Wayne Rooney - Manchester United x5

3 Andrew Cole - Manchester United x5   

4 Sergio Agüero - Manchester City x5 

5 Frank Lampard - Chelsea x3

6 Thierry Henry - Arsenal x2

7 Harry Kane 

8 Robbie Fowler

9 Jermain Defoe

10 Michael Owen - Manchester United x1

11 Les Ferdinand

12 Teddy Sheringham - Manchester United x3

13 Robin van Persie - Manchester United x1

14 Jimmy Floyd Hasselbaink

15 Jamie Vardy - Leicester City x1

16 Robbie Keane     

17 Nicolas Anelka - Arsenal x1, Chelsea x1     

18 Dwight Yorke - Manchester United x3

19 Steven Gerrard   

20 Romelu Lukaku

 

Sheringham and Owen threw me, i forgot they ditched their clubs and went to OT to get some silverware.

9 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

Definitely not. I have always thought Lukaku is a limited footballer. 

What exactly has Lukaku done to swing some fans opinions on him? Okay, he is our player now, but forget that for a moment. What are we seeing now that is such a massive improvement over the Lukaku that was at United and even large periods where he was at Everton? I remember the majority of Chelsea fans saying we were right to sell him and going for Morata was a better option than Lukaku (I never wanted either of them at the time) So what has changed? I'm not exactly seeing much to his game that has improved since he left United. His touch is still bad, trapping the ball and holding off defenders looks awkward and slow, pressing off the ball is below average, he's ghosting the big games. These were some of his biggest criticisms at Everton and United, so why should we ignore those faults now that he is a Chelsea player again?

I'm not changing my opinion on Lukaku just because he plays for us again, he needs to force me to change my opinion by improving aspects of his game that I think has stopped him from becoming an elite player.

That’s fine and I do understand your reasoning. I agree that he’s a limited footballer. He’s also a great goal scorer. That’s what we bought him for. I don’t know, it just seems to me that this season has been an unfortunate perfect storm for it not to work out. Still think he gets 15+ league goals if he stays healthy, and would have easily surpassed 20.

Maybe not you in particular, but there’s certainly fans who thing Lukaku and other Chelsea players are much worse than they actually are. I’m convinced this is because a lot of fans only watch their own team and then solely watch highlights of other matches - where they are only seeing the good for the most part.

Short of us getting Haaland this past summer, there’s not really any striker out there who is better than Lukaku that Chelsea could have brought it. What are your thoughts on that?

17 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

Short of us getting Haaland this past summer, there’s not really any striker out there who is better than Lukaku that Chelsea could have brought it. What are your thoughts on that?

Did we even need a center forward ? Man city has 1 forward (Jesus) in their whole squad, he's scored 2 goals in 17 games.

 

 

3 minutes ago, coco said:

Did we even need a center forward ? Man city has 1 forward (Jesus) in their whole squad, he's scored 2 goals in 17 games.

 

 

I think Man City is the exception to the rule

14 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

I think Man City is the exception to the rule

then we can only say 2nd place is our target, or we try to emualte them and our target is 1st place.

9 minutes ago, coco said:

then we can only say 2nd place is our target, or we try to emualte them and our target is 1st place.

So the only way our target can be 1st place is if we try to play the same way as Man City? Come on now, that’s just silly.

the pressures (number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball) stats is a bit disconcerting, Werner for example scores 75 and Havertz 68

54 minutes ago, mwblue10 said:

So the only way our target can be 1st place is if we try to play the same way as Man City? Come on now, that’s just silly.

We emulated them last season playing without a center forward, and beating them at their own game. Whats silly about that ?

Diego Costa is now a free agent. Just sayin...

5 hours ago, ForeverCarefree said:

19 Steven Gerrard   

 

Sorry, it’s the law. 

If he scores against Man City but we still lose the game I wonder what would that mean for us...

2 hours ago, coco said:

Did we even need a center forward ? Man city has 1 forward (Jesus) in their whole squad, he's scored 2 goals in 17 games.

 

 

Man City have Pep and an effective system. That been our problem all along. No system in place. We hire and fire managers, then change system every two seasons. It isn't good for building a successful team, especially not a domestic one. Domestically, until we have success, we aren't going to attract the really big and valuable names.

We last won a title in 16/17 under Conte. The board never backed him, then the season after we ended up fifth in the league. The same happened when José returned to Chelsea. We could have improved by buying Van Dijk, but let him go to Liverpool. We could have strengthened elsewhere, but we never did and now we have been left wanting for a league trophy the last five seasons. 

1 hour ago, Zeta said:

Diego Costa is now a free agent. Just sayin...

sign him on for 1 month just to play away to tottenham

3 hours ago, azpi28 said:

the pressures (number of times applying pressure to opposing player who is receiving, carrying or releasing the ball) stats is a bit disconcerting, Werner for example scores 75 and Havertz 68

And how do Werner and Haverts score on the other parameters? (scoring and assists f.e.)

This is a genuine question. What I see with Lukaku is for instance that he's good at blocking the passlines (not at putting pressure on the defenders, that's for sure)

3 hours ago, coco said:

We emulated them last season playing without a center forward, and beating them at their own game. Whats silly about that ?

Your idea that we can only target 2nd place at best unless we play like City is what’s silly.

We also barely scraped by to a 4th place finish last season and everyone, the club included, agreed that a goal scorer was the missing piece. I think the first few months of this season validated that.

2 hours ago, Darmae said:

And how do Werner and Haverts score on the other parameters? (scoring and assists f.e.)

This is a genuine question. What I see with Lukaku is for instance that he's good at blocking the passlines (not at putting pressure on the defenders, that's for sure)

i posted their stats in another topic 

the big difference is that lukaku's amount of goals (0.49 per 90) is actually more than the expected goals (0.43) while werner and havertz score (0.27 & 0.26 per 90) only half of their expected goals (0.51 & 0.43)

1 hour ago, mwblue10 said:

Your idea that we can only target 2nd place at best unless we play like City is what’s silly.

We also barely scraped by to a 4th place finish last season and everyone, the club included, agreed that a goal scorer was the missing piece. I think the first few months of this season validated that.

I wonder if we even have a chance to win against Man City given the state of our squad. Maybe even if Lukaku scores there it simply won't be enough and then it's all matter of analyzing if his goals outweight the other aspects of our play because if he scores once but for the rest of the time he doesn't press and Man City dominates the game it's all questionable...

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

If he scores against Man City but we still lose the game I wonder what would that mean for us...

It means Lukaku have scored and we lost.

2 hours ago, Gol15 said:

I wonder if we even have a chance to win against Man City given the state of our squad. Maybe even if Lukaku scores there it simply won't be enough and then it's all matter of analyzing if his goals outweight the other aspects of our play because if he scores once but for the rest of the time he doesn't press and Man City dominates the game it's all questionable...

I tell you what, if we brought in Lukaku expecting him to press like Werner and Havertz do....

1 minute ago, mwblue10 said:

I tell you what, if we brought in Lukaku expecting him to press like Werner and Havertz do....

He doesn't have to be an elite presser just a competent one to stop opponents exploiting the space.

Workrate excemptions should only come when what they actually deliever outweighs how many times said lack of workrate gets exploited (ala Hazard), Rom isn't close to that level.

10 minutes ago, Argo said:

He doesn't have to be an elite presser just a competent one to stop opponents exploiting the space.

Workrate excemptions should only come when what they actually deliever outweighs how many times said lack of workrate gets exploited (ala Hazard), Rom isn't close to that level.

Pressing doesn't require talent, it's hard work and stamina, + a bit of getting used to a system and learning when and who to press. he can improve in this area, or if he isn't asked to press than he will have to position himself in a manner where he wil close of some passing lanes

the problem is if he doesn't press as much as the other 2 front players than there will be a player free all the time who isn't under pressure as much which undermines the whole press 

Edited January 8, 20224 yr by azpi28

In order for us to be top level successful with Rom, (I.e. win the league or CL), we will need the other 9 outfield players to match Willian at his best work ethic to make up for Roms lack of effort.

He has been compared, very fairly imo, with RVN. The majority of their goals are in and around around box, when they are given the supply. Don't expect them to work for it, they want it on a plate and we surley knew that before buying him. 

While I agree with @Argo that Rom is not elite level to merit such treatment, fact is he is here and is 28 and a stubborn character so I highly doubt he changes. So we just have to make the best of it, or accept however many years of failed title bids and CL runs until he leaves.

I hate that we expect our front line striker to press, its completely counter productive. Say he presses the defender out wide, who then makes a mistake and we get the ball. The striker is then completely out of position and has no role to play in the counter.

Or he spends 35 minutes chasing defenders down, he's knackered and unable to get into position for an attack, or have the strength to hold the ball up.

Complete waste of time, his job is to score, leave him doing that.

This modern desperation for everyone to press for 90 minutes is ridiculous. 

dkw has a  good point. Ronaldo hasn't pressed for years, if ever, and never stopped him. Same for Messi. Same for Benzema.
 

Like a number of other Chelsea players Lukaku has had a bunch of things to contend with this season from injury to overwork. Look at Jorginho, Kante, Azpi. They all played the euros after long season then went straight into this season. Werner hasn't scored the goals we hoped for but my feeling is that he has more goals in him. 

Maybe I have rose or should that be blue tinted glasses but leaving the wing back issue aside, and that  Dave, Thiago and Alonso are all getting on and that Kante will be lucky to play 1 game in 2. Leaving all that aside we might have quite a good second half of the season with Lukaku, werner and cho/pulisic/havertz scoring a few goals.

We do need another wing back though. I wonder how long Reece will be out.

1 hour ago, ozboy said:

dkw has a  good point. Ronaldo hasn't pressed for years, if ever, and never stopped him. Same for Messi. Same for Benzema.

Lukaku being compared to Hazard and Mbappe took the piss enough but now Messi and Ronaldo😂🤣

When he starts scoring between 50 and 70 goals a season like those two did for years with a decent chunk of them being against Man.City, Liverpool and in the UCL latter stages then we'll talk.

As for Benzema, he pretty much became the ultimate team player during the Ronaldo era at Madrid. He was pretty much for the Portuguese what Firmino is/was for Mane and Salah.

Edited January 8, 20224 yr by Argo