51 minutes ago, venom2011 said:

I could care less if he hits 15 a season. His technical abilities and creativity are so outstanding that if he's fit he probably starts for most of the big boys. Rumours are we may try again for Hakimi - If for whatever reason we pulled that off and our right side consisted of Dembele, Hakimi, and James; defenders may as well just take a nap.

Already rejected us, 4 years into a 5 year deal and the best mate of PSG manager and kingpin Mbappe, such a weird rumour unless the media really think James wants a move to Madrid and they’re playing on that. 

6 hours ago, ducavis said:

Diaz is what €45m & £56k wages, Jota is £40m & £100k wages. Both those fees are amortised over a 5yr period, so the hit on their books is about £8m each annually. Dembele pocketing €45m (will all go on our books next year at once) & £300k/w will only be a good deal if he hits Lampard type figures constantly because he is unsellable if he flops. We don’t have Roman anymore to pad our books with £50m.

I would be completely shocked if they gave him 300/week. I think it’s more likely to be half that, on the high end.

The lack of professionalism reared its ugly head with Dembele 5 years ago.  He agitated for a transfer to Barcelona (not the first player to do that) and then his first season there were LOTS of rumors about his professionalism. But I haven't heard anything about that part of him for the past 3 years.  Maybe it's still there, maybe it isn't but I'd hate to be judged forever for what I did when I was 20 years old.

One other point, Barcelona is trying to shed players and salaries so that they can make signings like Lewandowski. Why would they want to keep Dembele if he had all of these issues? Why would they still try and re-sign him instead of shedding his salary, his immaturity, his lack of professionalism, his poor finishing, etc.? I tend to pay attention to actions rather than words.

Just a thought...

There is no way we are going for Hakimi. We are going for the right sided Kounde. He James and Dembele if all fit would be as good as ant right side the world. 

BOOOM 💥 Chelsea is serously pushing by Ousmane #Dembele, the English club is offering a contract to French player close to the values that the player wants, at the moment there is nothing guaranteed, the decision is in the player's hands. Next days are decisives. 🇲🇫🔵 #CFC
 

Sounds like we’re close. 

boom is a valid source?

38 minutes ago, JM7 said:

BOOOM 💥 Chelsea is serously pushing by Ousmane #Dembele, the English club is offering a contract to French player close to the values that the player wants, at the moment there is nothing guaranteed, the decision is in the player's hands. Next days are decisives. 🇲🇫🔵 #CFC
 

Sounds like we’re close. 

That doesn’t sound like a guy taking a pay cut. Again he is on £280k & has an €18m a year contract from Barca on the table. Not a fan of throwing big wages at players because it just never works with us, but if we are going to I’d rather use the signing + agent fees to make Bayern an offer for Gnabry. We will get a guy who can play 4 different positions in the forward line, familiar with the league, and has returned 67 league goals & 28 assists in the last season.

 

7 hours ago, Greys33 said:

The lack of professionalism reared its ugly head with Dembele 5 years ago.  He agitated for a transfer to Barcelona (not the first player to do that) and then his first season there were LOTS of rumors about his professionalism. But I haven't heard anything about that part of him for the past 3 years.  Maybe it's still there, maybe it isn't but I'd hate to be judged forever for what I did when I was 20 years old.

One other point, Barcelona is trying to shed players and salaries so that they can make signings like Lewandowski. Why would they want to keep Dembele if he had all of these issues? Why would they still try and re-sign him instead of shedding his salary, his immaturity, his lack of professionalism, his poor finishing, etc.? I tend to pay attention to actions rather than words.

Just a thought...

It wasn’t 5 years ago, Koeman & Xavi have both recently disciplined him for missing training sessions. French players can be notoriously moody (see Ndombele at Spurs), last thing you want is a guy on big wages missing training for staying up late playing video games, or not hearing his wake up alarm go off. 

16 hours ago, axman2526 said:

Don't trust goal mate, trust @Gol15 😉

+1

So Close FC

8 hours ago, ducavis said:

It wasn’t 5 years ago, Koeman & Xavi have both recently disciplined him for missing training sessions. French players can be notoriously moody (see Ndombele at Spurs), last thing you want is a guy on big wages missing training for staying up late playing video games, or not hearing his wake up alarm go off. 

Koeman hasn't been manager since October of last year so he couldn't have disciplined him recently.  Second, making an all encompassing assumption about people because of their nationality....there's a word for that, stereotyping.  Not a good look.  Third, the video game issue was back in 2018, 4 years ago when he was 21. What 21 year old hasn't made bad decisions?

Back to my previous point, why would Barcelona still try and re-sign him instead of shedding his salary, his immaturity, his lack of professionalism, his poor finishing, etc.? 

23 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Read an article that Xavi specifically utilised Dembele's creative instincts vs goal scoring ability. 

Someone in mentioned a few pages back that Dembele is an asset solely on the fact he doesn't look to score, he looks to assist. 

Without meaning to sound like a broken record we already have a player who's a sh*t finisher but has creative metrics up there with the best of them.

A wide forward is what's needed, although Werner was on paper perfect for that role so easier said than found.

14 minutes ago, Argo said:

Without meaning to sound like a broken record we already have a player who's a sh*t finisher but has creative metrics up there with the best of them.

We don't.

We have sh*t finishers.  Not one player in our team is particularly creative.

Which is why we struggle to create clear chances.

Edited June 3, 20224 yr by HazardousChoice

Just now, HazardousChoice said:

We don't.

 

11 hours ago, Argo said:

 

Is it Hudson-Odoi that you are trying to point out here, or what?

These days I find a massive initial salary a way bigger gamble than a massive transfer sum. It takes a strong justification to have someone coming in earn more straight away than long-time performers. From the club's view it's justified because they save the transfer fee, but the rest of the squad probably don't see it like that, in fact they most likely see it the opposite way. When Lukaku joined he hadn't really achieved much more than our existing players, but his status apparently warranted him becoming (one of) the most expensive CF of all time, so his salary kind of made sense. If Dembele, who's just got a grip over the last 6 months, joins as our highest earning player (let's say Lukaku leaves this summer), I'd find that extremely poisonous. 

The second obvious problem with a high initial salary is how difficult it becomes to move someone on if they don't work out (Let's hope Lukaku really loves Inter that much).

I think Dembele could be a great addition to our squad, but the numbers might still make it an extremely risky deal. It makes me wonder if Gnabry wouldn't be the much safer choice. With his incredible decision making he actually embodies much more what I believe we're lacking. Well, in a perfect world, we sell Lukaku and Werner and sign both of them. 

14 hours ago, Argo said:

Without meaning to sound like a broken record we already have a player who's a sh*t finisher but has creative metrics up there with the best of them.

A wide forward is what's needed, although Werner was on paper perfect for that role so easier said than found.

May I know who is that? 

As of today none of our players are really out and out playmakers. CHO and Ziyech are the closest. Ziyech has underwhelmed despite showing plenty of promising signs, TT doesn't play him nearly as much when he's fit as we would expect.

CHO when fit has impressed me with his ball carries and attempted passes in the final third on occasions but needs more consistency.

TT is going for the opposite of last season rather than sign a target man or an out and out striker he's looking to create more high value chances for the team. Thus elite playmakers are needed, regardless of his attitude only 2 players in la liga finished with a better average match rating across the whole season than Dembele and that was Benzema and Vini Jr. 

His playmaking metrics are at the high end of Europe, if TT wants him he will get a tune out of him, I don't see discipline being an issue. I'd expect him to settle down and focus on his football like he did under Xavi.

Edited June 4, 20224 yr by LongtimerLurker

14 minutes ago, LongtimerLurker said:

As of today none of our players are really out and out playmakers. CHO and Ziyech are the closest. Ziyech has underwhelmed despite showing plenty of promising signs, TT doesn't play him nearly as much when he's fit as we would expect.

CHO when fit has impressed me with his ball carries and attempted passes in the final third on occasions but needs more consistency.

TT is going for the opposite of last season rather than sign a target man or an out and out striker he's looking to create more high value chances for the team. Thus elite playmakers are needed, regardless of his attitude only 2 players in la liga finished with a better average match rating across the whole season than Dembele and that was Benzema and Vini Jr. 

His playmaking metrics are at the high end of Europe, if TT wants him he will get a tune out of him, I don't see discipline being an issue. I'd expect him to settle down and focus on his football like he did under Xavi.

I concur...I actually think that Lukaku would have fared much better if CHO played more and Ziyech passed more instead of always cutting in on his left foot for the shot.  Players who can take people on and get quality crosses into the box. Lukaku needs crosses into the box and through balls, not intricate short passes.  It also didn't help that Reece and Chilwell missed significant portions of the season. You can see the drop in our form once they were out.

3 hours ago, Greys33 said:

I concur...I actually think that Lukaku would have fared much better if CHO played more and Ziyech passed more instead of always cutting in on his left foot for the shot.  Players who can take people on and get quality crosses into the box. Lukaku needs crosses into the box and through balls, not intricate short passes.  It also didn't help that Reece and Chilwell missed significant portions of the season. You can see the drop in our form once they were out.

Forget CHO and Ziyech,  you could have had Prime Messi, Xavi and Iniesta supplying him and Lukaku still would have embarrassed himself and the club.

The guy is just not very talented.  

Even before signing for us Lukaku was a dreadful footballer as he proved in his last spell in the premier league

Teams deny us space in behind, that's how the vast majority of small clubs set up against top sides and it's also the way that completely neutralises Lukaku.

Has Lukaku ever been one of the top 100 strikers in the world without space to run in behind? not for me.  He's got an absolutely awful level of technical ability so instead of thinking of which creative players we need to somehow make this Donkey look like a professional footballer perhaps we just need to recognise Lukaku actively makes our creative players look worse because he has awful movement, poor hold up play so they can't build off him and absolutely no technical ability to create space for them to then use to create chances back for him.

It's immeasurably easier to create chances for players Like Salah, Mane, Son, Kane, Ronaldo and any other player with energy movement than it is for Statuesque Rom as he man marks a centre back that will dominate him in the air.

Edited June 4, 20224 yr by HazardousChoice

6 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Forget CHO and Ziyech,  you could have had Prime Messi, Xavi and Iniesta supplying him and Lukaku still would have embarrassed himself and the club.

The guy is just not very talented.  

Even before signing for us Lukaku was a dreadful footballer as he proved in his last spell in the premier league

Teams deny us space in behind, that's how the vast majority of small clubs set up against top sides and it's also the way that completely neutralises Lukaku.

Has Lukaku ever been one of the top 100 strikers in the world without space to run in behind? not for me.  He's got an absolutely awful level of technical ability so instead of thinking of which creative players we need to somehow make this Donkey look like a professional footballer perhaps we just need to recognise Lukaku actively makes our creative players look worse because he has awful movement, poor hold up play so they can't build off him and absolutely no technical ability to create space for them to then use to create chances back for him.

It's immeasurably easier to create chances for players Like Salah, Mane, Son, Kane, Ronaldo and any other player with energy movement than it is for Statuesque Rom as he man marks a centre back that will dominate him in the air.

For arguments sake...the not very talented guy was our top scorer and didn't play close to the most amount of minutes nor was he our assigned PK taker. He played 1000 minutes less than Mount and 500 minutes less than Havertz and still led us in scoring. I'm not even a Lukaku fan but those are the facts. Also, teams can deny us space behind because of the slow build up play that we utilize. That's a style issue not (necessarily) a player issue. I'd also argue that he makes it easier for our creative players to find space because he usually ties up both CBs. Again not a Lukaku fan but not a hater either (I hope he goes back to Inter).

I would agree with all the players you listed except Ronaldo. His energy is not what it used to be. 

1 hour ago, Greys33 said:

Quote

For arguments sake...the not very talented guy was our top scorer and didn't play close to the most amount of minutes nor was he our assigned PK taker.

Lone striker being the only number 9 at the club in being top scorer shocker.

It also isn't a style issue.  You can't control how the other team set up,  we could play incredibly quick one touch but we'll still face dozens of teams over the season who have 9 men in their own box for almost 90 minutes.  You can't speed up to catch them out because they're never going to move or they'll drop the second they lose possession.

Liverpool and City are much quicker than us and they have the same issue, the difference is they have players with the technical ability and guile to operate in these tight spaces,  create space in the box and use that half a yard to create a chance.   We have some talentless lump that can't consistently keep his first touch within 5 yards of himself.

Neither Klopp or Pep would consider Lukaku on a free and they wouldn't have considered signing him on a free last summer.  He'd have got the Benteke treatement.  The talent just isn't there to play at the highest level

The idea that a fat lump with no movement is "occupying centre backs" as they mark him out of the game without breaking a sweat while we struggle to create a chance is one of the most hilarious things I've seen repeated about Roms static play.  I think it's more accurate to say that in many games Rom slots in the centre of the oppositions back 3.

Edited June 4, 20224 yr by HazardousChoice

10 minutes ago, HazardousChoice said:

Lone striker being the only number 9 at the club in being top scorer shocker.

It also isn't a style issue.  You can't control how the other team set up,  we could play incredibly quick one touch but we'll still face dozens of teams over the season who have 9 men in their own box for almost 90 minutes.  You can't speed up to catch them out because they're never going to move or they'll drop the second they lose possession.

Liverpool and City are much quicker than us and they have the same issue, the difference is they have players with the technical ability and guile to operate in these tight spaces,  create space in the box and use that half a yard to create a chance.   We have some talentless lump that can't consistently keep his first touch within 5 yards of himself.

Neither Klopp or Pep would consider Lukaku on a free and they wouldn't have considered signing him on a free last summer.  He'd have got the Benteke treatement.  The talent just isn't there to play at the highest level

The idea that a fat lump with no movement is "occupying centre backs" as they mark him out of the game without breaking a sweat while we struggle to create a chance is one of the most hilarious things I've seen repeated about Roms static play.  I think it's more accurate to say that in many games Rom slots in the centre of the oppositions back 3.

Havertz played quite a bit as the only number 9 as well. Whether it was because Lukaku was hurt or in the dog house and he managed 14 goals. If you don't want to play against 9 men in their own box, score. Simple concept but make the other team chase the game. Or when they lose possession counter quickly, you know the through balls that were mentioned that Lukaku does well with, so that they don't have the opportunity to set up 9 in the box.

You my friend are clearly a Lukaku hater and won't see anything objectively so carry on.

Arguments over lukaku will never end but good or bad he wants out and that’s the end of it really. Money and a season wasted. The bigger problem is really working out what to do with havertz. He just doesn’t have a natural position. Not a goal scoring striker and doesn’t seem, to my surprise, to really be a number 10. 

nor is he fast enough to be a wide player. 
wired, but this is a Dembele rumour thread. 
 

 

Latest update

Chelsea believe Dembele will choose them. According to some of my sources it's all about Tuchel, the board are very keen to back him and get him what he wants. Whether you like Dembele or rate him, the situation is very clear. Tuchel wants Dembele. 

As I've mentioned before I see TT realising his mistake from last season, a target man is not what the football style he has cultivated in London so far needs. It's more creative players to bring out the best in the current forwards. Plus an out and out goalscorer.

Once Dembele secured, and some more defensive targets I would expect Chelsea to target one more attacker. Unless Broja, Werner and Havertz do enough in pre season to be the main strike force for next season. 

 

Edited June 5, 20224 yr by LongtimerLurker

Are you saying Lukaku was TTs idea? If so and regarding his history in the transfer market I‘m not sure backing him is a wise idea 😉

 

The last part is your opinion, right? Because I doubt that at this point a good pre-season of Werner is nor should change anything regarding his evaluation.