It was nice to see us go abit more direct rather than messing about with the ball outside of the area - get the ball forward early. 
 

Great to see Potter fired up and animated as well. Missed that from a manager and sometimes the players need it. 
 

Hopefully he can kick on from here. 

2 hours ago, OriginalS said:

But it does raise questions about what the hell we have been doing until now. Yesterday we were much better because we essentially returned to our starting point when Tuchel was sacked. 

I think, formation aside,  yesterday was a million miles away from the position we were in when Tuchel was sacked.

The team at the end of TTs reign had just been obliterated by leeds, were  playing unprogressive, lethargic , backwards, negative football.

Defence wasn't working at the end of TT time.

Attack wasn't working at the end.

We were not creating chances at the end.

We were not playing with energy at the end.

We looked as if we had downed tools. 

The manager looked brittle and as if he wanted to be anywhere else.

Yesterday we saw a united team, creating chances, getting the ball in the net 4 times, solid at the back, playing forward pretty quickly when needed, taking chances to progress up the field. There was a positive energy, both on the field, and on the touch line....and not least in the crowd (which helps!)

So - I agree that it begs the question where was this positivity and progress until now - but then,  coming from where we were at that time (long term downward trajectory), it is inevitable that changes would take time. Personally I didn't think we would see us "turn on" like we did last night - which makes me even more convinced that it will be a up and down process. 

I don't however agree that he reverted to Tuchelball.

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by nonotnowjim

13 minutes ago, nonotnowjim said:

I think, formation aside,  yesterday was a million miles away from the position we were in when Tuchel was sacked.

The team at the end of TTs reign had just been obliterated by leeds, were  playing unprogressive, lethargic , backwards, negative football.

Defence wasn't working at the end of TT time.

Attack wasn't working at the end.

We were not creating chances at the end.

We were not playing with energy at the end.

We looked as if we had downed tools. 

The manager looked brittle and as if he wanted to be anywhere else.

Yesterday we saw a united team, creating chances, getting the ball in the net 4 times, solid at the back, playing forward pretty quickly when needed, taking chances to progress up the field. There was a positive energy, both on the field, and on the touch line....and not least in the crowd (which helps!)

So - I agree that it begs the question where was this positivity and progress until now - but then,  coming from where we were at that time (long term downward trajectory), it is inevitable that changes would take time. Personally I didn't think we would see us "turn on" like we did last night - which makes me even more convinced that it will be a up and down process. 

I don't however agree that he reverted to Tuchelball.

We had also smashed Tottenham towards the end and beat Leicester in an impressive way with 10 men. Also showed great fight for a late comback with v West Ham. It's such a ridiculous argument to bring up that Leeds game every single time. A game that got screwed up for us due to personal mistakes.

Tottenham at the lane about a week ago or Southampton at home before that was far better examples of when it looked like the players had downed tools but you never bring that up. Or the farce away to Brighton earlier this season.

But sure, for a bunch of reasons it unraveled a bit towards the end. Tuchel had gone through a lot for both the club and in his private life.
So why do you want to conclude about "Tuchelball" based on that instead of a period of a full year when we had both Chilwell and James available? We were flying then and playing terrific football. And we were both the best team in Europe and the best team in the league until the injury crisis hit. Will Potter achieve that? Doubt it.

 

 

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by OriginalS

25 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

 

So why do you want to conclude about "Tuchelball" based on that instead of a period of a full year when we had both Chilwell and James available? We were flying then and playing terrific football. 

 

 

I don't conclude anything about Tuchelball. The post you quoted was in response to another post which concluded that yesterday simply saw us "return to our starting point when tuchel was sacked" 

As set out in my post, and as alluded to in your own here,  last night did not see us return to where we were when tuchel was sacked. It was a million miles away from the dross that was being served up for a prolonged period. 

Tuchel had his highs as well....but there were not many of them over his last few months. 

edit - and appreciate that you don't like the leeds game as a reference. Our dire performances go long back...including (but not limited to) the southampton loss (2v1), Zagreb loss (0v1),  everton loss (0v1),  arsenal loss (2v4)  brentford loss (1-4). There was more than enough dire performances to show the wheels had come off. 

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by nonotnowjim

1 minute ago, nonotnowjim said:

I don't conclude anything about Tuchelball. The post you quoted was in response to another post which concluded that yesterday simply saw us "return to our starting point when tuchel was sacked" 

As set out in my post, and as alluded to in your own here,  last night did not see us return to where we were when tuchel was sacked. It was a million miles away from the dross that was being served up for a prolonged period. 

Tuchel had his highs as well....but there were not many of them over his last few months. 

System wise it certainly was. More energy yes but it was essentially the same foundations that Tuchel laid.
He's the one who turned Chilwell & James into monster wingbacks for example and they are the key to that system.

 

5 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

System wise it certainly was. More energy yes but it was essentially the same foundations that Tuchel laid.
He's the one who turned Chilwell & James into monster wingbacks for example and they are the key to that system.

 

yep - like i said, formation aside. 

But the energy, positivity, forward thinking nature, strong defence, progressive attack was very very very different to the end of Tuchel period. 

Personally I have never been able to fathom over why people get hung up in the debate over it was this system, or it was that system, we should be play this formation, or play that formation.

All the really great teams have one thing in common. Adaptability. Being able to switch between formations and tactics to suit different opponents or the specific circumstances you are facing at that moment on the pitch. 

1 minute ago, nonotnowjim said:

yep - like i said, formation aside. 

But the energy, positivity, forward thinking nature, strong defence, progressive attack was very very very different to the end of Tuchel period. 

Sure, i'll give you that for this one game. Until now though we've just gone backwards which is obvious considering we are 10th so lets now see if Potter can deliver over time. 

 

2 minutes ago, just said:

All the really great teams have one thing in common. Adaptability. Being able to switch between formations and tactics to suit different opponents or the specific circumstances you are facing at that moment on the pitch. 

Not sure I agree. The best team just play their way and make everyone else adapt to them.

If we consider our teams under Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte and Tuchel as our best sides when those teams were in its prime we usually played 1 style of football but just did it so well that no one could handle it.

3 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Not sure I agree. The best team just play their way and make everyone else adapt to them.

If we consider our teams under Mourinho, Ancelotti, Conte and Tuchel as our best sides when those teams were in its prime we usually played 1 style of football but just did it so well that no one could handle it.

But on the flip side to that, all four spells became very stale at best at the very end.

13 minutes ago, just said:

Personally I have never been able to fathom over why people get hung up in the debate over it was this system, or it was that system, we should be play this formation, or play that formation.

All the really great teams have one thing in common. Adaptability. Being able to switch between formations and tactics to suit different opponents or the specific circumstances you are facing at that moment on the pitch. 

Liverpool usually under Klopp plays exactly the same formation and players (if fit) religiously. I don't see anything but that with them.

6 minutes ago, Argo said:

But on the flip side to that, all four spells became very stale at best at the very end.

Sure, but they were all great teams that played one style of football.

Same goes for prime Barcelona. They played one way and everyone else had to adapt or get brutalized. Or even City for the last five-six years, the football is basically the same and Guardiola doesn't do much reacting to anything.
 

For me that was so brilliant from our football was the intensity we showed when Dortmund had the ball in 20-30m from our goal. We absolutely attacked their players fiercely and with bodies. That was much better this game than it was at Dortmund. 

Overall we defended very well. This has been something constant from us under Potter. 

10 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

Sure, but they were all great teams that played one style of football.

Same goes for prime Barcelona. They played one way and everyone else had to adapt or get brutalized. Or even City for the last five-six years, the football is basically the same and Guardiola doesn't do much reacting to anything.
 

Doesn't he? He did just that against us in his biggest game for City and had 36% possesion at The Emirates to name two examples. Klopp has kept the same formation but has changed his tactics multiple times to keep the rest of us on our toes.

Barca yes but they were a freak team we will never see again. Arsenal 06-14 tried to copy that blueprint and look what happened.

11 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Hope we get AC Milan or Spurs. That's our best chance of getting to the semis. 

I don't think it is. Dortmund are in great form and we outplayed them over the two legs, missed chances too. I believe that on our day we can go toe to toe with anybody in this competition, Real Madrid included as proved by previous performances against them. We were mins away from beating them last season at their place. We also had Kante then too. If Kante can come back rejuvenated and in full fitness, we can make a real go of the CL. Shame Thiago Silva will not be fit though. 

Yesterday feels like it might be a turning point for Potter. I would love him to turn this around and prove the doubters (including myself) wrong.

What I liked was it seemed like a massive weight off his and the player's shoulders. He was gleaming and so were the players. They were embracing and smiling like it really meant the world to them to get that win. Despite what the Potter doubters think, It does seem from the outside looking in that the players are behind him and like him. Even Havertz complimented him after the game about his positive coaching.

People need to lay off him for a while, see what happens in the coming weeks. I am nowhere near a delusional "Potter in" as some may think, but I do believe that given the issues he's had to contend with after taking over the team he has needed time and a fit, consistent (as much as possible) first eleven. He may not be the right manager, and before the end of the season he could well be gone if results don't go our way, but after yesterday's result at least there's some positivity to cling to for Potter's future at the club. I want him to do well, but more than anything I want Chelsea to succeed and do well.  When he does well, the club does well. 

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by enigma

1 minute ago, enigma said:

What I liked was it seemed like a massive weight off his and the player's shoulders. He was gleaming and so were the players. They were embracing and smiling like it really meant the world to them to get that win. Despite what the Potter doubters think, It does seem from the outside looking in that the players are behind him and like him. Even Havertz complimented him after the game about his positive coaching.

People need to lay off him for a while, see what happens in the coming weeks. I am nowhere near a delusional "Potter in" as some may think, but I do believe that given the issues he's had to contend with after taking over the team he has needed time and a fit, consistent (as much as possible) first eleven. He may not be the right manager, and before the end of the season he could well be gone if results don't go our way, but after yesterday's result at least there's some positivity to cling to for Potter's future at the club. I want him to do well, but more than anything I want Chelsea to succeed and do well.  When he does well, the club does well. 

Brilliant post Enigma.

I would add by saying that last night we had a player in Havertz who played, for once, like a proper centre-forward. His hold up play, passing and movement was excellent and brought other players in to the game. And he posed a goal threat himself. I maintain, he is not and never will be a natural centre-forward, but that is the type of player we need to really make us tick and have more end product.

After the first 5/10mins I thought we were very good. Still not a fan of the subs he made towards the end, bringing Gallagher on so early for Felix felt overly negative and bringing on Pulisic instead of Mudryk was strange considering he's probably on his way out in the summer, I guess he wanted someone more experienced but still.

Should add as well that progress was the criteria for this season for potter and until yesterday we'd been going backwards for months, if we keep going in this direction then I'm happy to keep giving him a chance.

Why are people refusing to accept the subs he made were correct ? It doesn’t make sense. I was urging him to bring on Mudryk, but he didn’t and went his way, I like that a lot. Stick to you plan Potter, don’t listen to the fans.

12 minutes ago, coco said:

Why are people refusing to accept the subs he made were correct ? It doesn’t make sense. I was urging him to bring on Mudryk, but he didn’t and went his way, I like that a lot. Stick to you plan Potter, don’t listen to the fans.

He didnt bring Mudryk on as he needed someone to cover the wing back in defence, Pulisic will at least try and do that while Mudryk mostly doesnt, either because he isnt tuned in to the system or just isnt willing to. I get why he didnt bring him on, and he didnt have many other options than Pulisic.

15 minutes ago, dkw said:

He didnt bring Mudryk on as he needed someone to cover the wing back in defence, Pulisic will at least try and do that while Mudryk mostly doesnt, either because he isnt tuned in to the system or just isnt willing to. I get why he didnt bring him on, and he didnt have many other options than Pulisic.

Thats probably true but its probably overly defensive even when you do try to shore things up. Because when Dortmund doesn't have much to worry about defensively anymore they will naturally push up even harder and thus put more pressure on us. Happened against Leeds and against yesterday even though we were better at closing up defensively yesterday.

10 minutes ago, dkw said:

He didnt bring Mudryk on as he needed someone to cover the wing back in defence, Pulisic will at least try and do that while Mudryk mostly doesnt, either because he isnt tuned in to the system or just isnt willing to. I get why he didnt bring him on, and he didnt have many other options than Pulisic.

Yes i get that, but my point is no matter what we think, he should do it his own way, that's why we he's manager and not us, our opinions are made from limited evidence, 90/180 mins per week.

30 minutes ago, coco said:

Why are people refusing to accept the subs he made were correct ? It doesn’t make sense. I was urging him to bring on Mudryk, but he didn’t and went his way, I like that a lot. Stick to you plan Potter, don’t listen to the fans.

I accept that we got the win and therefore the subs worked out well, but with Gallagher on for Felix, with about half the second half to play, it was asking for trouble. And I think that the change let them get the control of the match and get on top of us, and we were lucky not to go to extra time. I also don't agree with the Pulisic instead of Mudryk, knowing that Pulisic has not seen a minute of competitive football for months. I understand the defensive aspect dkw mentions, but don't agree with it. In any case, what matters is that we got the win and got through to the next round. So drinks all round.