24 minutes ago, TimesUpPotter said:

 

 

A clubs supporters are the best people to listen to as they invest their time and energy into their clubs and watch them for 90 minutes each week.

That is complete garbage. Supporters change their mind on things in 45 minutes or less depending on what happened last game or even in the last half they watched. They are biased, invariably think they know better than the manager and management, mostly have no experience or qualifications in actually managing a football team of any kind let alone an elite team.  Even those of us that watch games closely don't always appreciate what players are doing or not doing. I played with a fellow once and thought he was even worse than me. the next season I played against him and suddenly realised what a lot he contributed. 

3 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

They have improved massively though, despite losing a handful of players. De Zerbi is only 43 as well, and has won a league title with Shakhtar. He probably ends up at Juventus but he has a bright future for sure. 

I'm still convinced Boehly hired the wrong analyst when he pulled up Potters stats.  His football stats were never that convincing over some other managers outside of the top 6 or overseas and that are still job hunting so how he became Boehly's first choice is head scratching.  I can only assume many other metrics and data sets were used to make him the first choice.

4 hours ago, Mod said:

No way does a keeper come back in that can't kick a ball and clangers it at 2 yards from a backpass!

Some of Kepa's form is the reason our league position isn't even more embarrassing. His saves that have kept us in games have probably kept Potter in the job, including Saturday's game.

By all means, let's search for something better than Kepa, but Mendy, it is definitely not. I think he's probably done at the club and will be the first out when the season ends.

I think it's quite telling that Kepa on top form still costs us at times (Mendy would have got slaughtered for those mistakes against City and Fulham, or the Salzburg one where Silva bailed him out) whereas Mendy on top form was winning us the UCL while troubling clean sheet records.

Don't get me wrong on a personal level I'm very happy that he has recovered from his horror 19/20 season, unlike a certain other underwhelming record signing my problems with Kepa has never extended past his performances. However unless we become like City of 20/21 (ala barely even conceding chances) I can't see us challenging for a league league Kepa in goal, the moments above will simply come up too often.

Apathy - what an awful place to be.  I've been intending to post this since Saturday, but frankly my excitement for Potter is less than one of his press conferences.

It was a long way back from Saints, and Spurs made that worse.  It was great to win a game - beyond happy for the players, staff, and fans.  But it changes nothing for me, yet.  We scored from a set piece, look toothless from open play, subbed off all but one attacker at home to relegation fighting Leeds, and at times were hanging on again just like the 1-0 Palace at home.

Winning changes things, and hopefully they play with more freedom and things start to click.  But, as before, need to see a hell of a lot more from Potter. 

Despite how Potter was highly rated by man during his last 12-18 months at Brighton, no big ( or even mid size ) clubs made an offer to him until Boehly showed up. There has to be a reason for that, we have seen plenty of managers change in that period.  United didn't offer him a job and got a temp, Spurs didn't offer him, even the likes of Villa or Everton went for other options. Then came Boehly, probably over heard the name in the pub or saw it in FM, and gave him a life contract 😄

16 minutes ago, icecoolguy22 said:

Despite how Potter was highly rated by man during his last 12-18 months at Brighton, no big ( or even mid size ) clubs made an offer to him until Boehly showed up. There has to be a reason for that, we have seen plenty of managers change in that period.  United didn't offer him a job and got a temp, Spurs didn't offer him, even the likes of Villa or Everton went for other options. Then came Boehly, probably over heard the name in the pub or saw it in FM, and gave him a life contract 😄

I'm fairly sure he turned down the Tottenham job in 2021 the Everton job not long after.

4 hours ago, CFCCAN said:

I'm still convinced Boehly hired the wrong analyst when he pulled up Potters stats.  His football stats were never that convincing over some other managers outside of the top 6 or overseas and that are still job hunting so how he became Boehly's first choice is head scratching.  I can only assume many other metrics and data sets were used to make him the first choice.

I don't have the effort to go find the poll on this forum from July/August ish last year, but Potter was the most chosen option in the poll of who should replace Tuchel. So I guess we all were fooled*

 

(*i was one of three who voted Pochettino)

4 hours ago, PhilH930 said:

Apathy - what an awful place to be.  I've been intending to post this since Saturday, but frankly my excitement for Potter is less than one of his press conferences.

It was a long way back from Saints, and Spurs made that worse.  It was great to win a game - beyond happy for the players, staff, and fans.  But it changes nothing for me, yet.  We scored from a set piece, look toothless from open play, subbed off all but one attacker at home to relegation fighting Leeds, and at times were hanging on again just like the 1-0 Palace at home.

Winning changes things, and hopefully they play with more freedom and things start to click.  But, as before, need to see a hell of a lot more from Potter. 

I think i'd be more patient with Potter if I felt he had a clear plan he was working towards.

Guardiola finished 3rd in his first season at Man City (looking well off the top and in danger of not qualifying for champions league much of the year) yet few called for him to be sacked because they could see what he was trying to do and wanted to see what would happen if he was given the time and resources to turn the Man City squad into his football image.

I just don't see Potter's vision really. Every week the starting team is different, the formation changes, players who are supposedly on their way out are getting football (Ziyech, Aubameyang, Zakaria) and players who have just been bought (like David Fofana, Madueke and Mudryk) don't get first team minutes because of it. It seems like for the  most part since Conte our squad has been most suited to a back 3/5 formation yet all this muddled scattergun transfer market recruitment this past window seemed to moving us in the tactical direction of Arsenal or Man City where the widest players are the attacking wingers not the wing backs.

Cant help but wonder what is going through the player's minds seeing a new lineup, formation and tactics every week under a manager who has almost nothing left to play for this season yet is so hyper shortterm focussed on the next match he seems to have given up most of his principles of play

1 hour ago, Qaz said:

I think i'd be more patient with Potter if I felt he had a clear plan he was working towards.

Guardiola finished 3rd in his first season at Man City (looking well off the top and in danger of not qualifying for champions league much of the year) yet few called for him to be sacked because they could see what he was trying to do and wanted to see what would happen if he was given the time and resources to turn the Man City squad into his football image.

I just don't see Potter's vision really. Every week the starting team is different, the formation changes, players who are supposedly on their way out are getting football (Ziyech, Aubameyang, Zakaria) and players who have just been bought (like David Fofana, Madueke and Mudryk) don't get first team minutes because of it. It seems like for the  most part since Conte our squad has been most suited to a back 3/5 formation yet all this muddled scattergun transfer market recruitment this past window seemed to moving us in the tactical direction of Arsenal or Man City where the widest players are the attacking wingers not the wing backs.

Cant help but wonder what is going through the player's minds seeing a new lineup, formation and tactics every week under a manager who has almost nothing left to play for this season yet is so hyper shortterm focussed on the next match he seems to have given up most of his principles of play

Spot on.

17 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

For years this club had a focus on implementing a compact system that was primarily focused on strict positioning off the ball with a direct build up on the ball. 

 

 

😱😱😱

It is actually the other way around. Sarriball is very strict in term of positioning whereas mou is quite loose. 

3 hours ago, Qaz said:

I don't have the effort to go find the poll on this forum from July/August ish last year, but Potter was the most chosen option in the poll of who should replace Tuchel. So I guess we all were fooled*

 

(*i was one of three who voted Pochettino)

I found the thread you started (it is on page 5, titled "Obligatory New Manager", last update 12th September) but the poll in has been deleted for some reason ... 

8 hours ago, haviet1 said:

 

Why didn't Chelsea hire this guy instead of Potter?

 

 

Because Chelsea never went through any competent hiring process. 

Todd had heard that Brighton chap was good from the guys boss at one of the numerous social events he attended and large sections of the press selling him as the next big thing since Cruyff. 

He decided that was enough to make a decision based on for a club that's easily in any top 10 list of football clubs in the world. Folly him. 

18 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

It's getting really irritating reading your posts expecting to see some form of a rational counter argument, but I continue to get only wordplay from you. 

For years this club had a focus on implementing a compact system that was primarily focused on strict positioning off the ball with a direct build up on the ball. Sarri then shifted this entire philosophy in favor of a possession oriented system that was primarily focused in taking the initiative and controlling matches whilst believing the best defence is retaining the ball.

Please explain to me how this isn't a cultural/philosophy shift. Or were there too many buzzwords in there for you to bother?

 

OK. Apologies Sconnie. Was a bit harsh in the opening of my last post.

So without wordplay.

1. I do not believe, for a second, that Roman, Buck, Marina or anyone in the administration team tasked Sarri with changing the philosophy and culture of Chelsea FC by insisting on a set style of football being used. Nor Conte, Scolari, Mourinho etc. The ONLY objectives any manager was set under the Roman tenure was to win titles and trophies. There were other aspirations like reducing nett spend and using young homegrown talent. But these were always secondary to winning titles and trophies.

2. @icecoolguy22 has said in his post Sarri started well but his system soon got sussed out by EPL managers. 100% correct. They pressed higher and faster, denied space in midfield, and generally got more physical. The result was our players had less time and room and the tikki-taka style passing intended to retain possession ended up being mostly sideways and backwards. Our game slowed down drastically and our forward movement was badly lacking.

3. Sarri had the luxury of having two players here who were, at that time, unarguably in the Top 10 players in the world. Kante and Hazard. And a centre-forward in Giroud, who, whilst not a goal machine, was at least a genuine centre-forward who could hold the ball up, pose a threat and score a goal two. These were major assets Potter doesn't have at his disposal.

4. @Qaz in his post has said Sarri's breif stint in charge wasn't a disaster and with the assets available he ultimately delivered what was expected as a minimum. Again, I agree. But we did benefit from some of the teams around us imploding at the end. Particularly Tottenham who had been ahead of us in the battle for a CL spot. Fortunately for us they got all Spursy, and in their last 12 games only won 3 and had 7 defeats. 

5. Sarri himself. I'll repeat what I said before. He never, at any point, looked like he was enjoying the ride and really wanted to be here. Yes, the fans gave him a rough time pretty quickly but IMO that was down to Sarri's dour persona, lack of communication, the slow, sideways, boring football "Sarriball" largely became, and the up and down results. Some of the player's comments about his confusing tactics and training systems didn't help either. But, as I have said before, if he really wanted to be here, if he really wanted to implement a new football philosophy and culture at Chelsea, he could have stayed. 

I hope all this gives you some rational argument for my own opinions?

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by just

14 hours ago, TimesUpPotter said:

It's @just you really shouldn't expect any kind of rational argument or football knowledge from him at this point.

Just mindless rambling of how Sarri or Jorginho are responsible for all the ills plauging the club.

Anyone with any kind of understanding of the game recognises Sarri tried to implement the biggest change in style we've seen from an incoming manager over the last 20 years and generally did a good job here. He's indisputably a far better manager than Potter, I suspect even someone like Just himself knows that but he's backed himself into a corner now.

I don't miss Sarri, he's not exactly the most charismatic figure and I prefer a different style of football but I recognise he's a very talented manager, his record speaks for itself and a mark of a good manager is how quickly they can impose their methods on their team and I don't think anyone can dispute Sarri did an incredible job at getting the squad to adapt to his ideals and overall we had a very good season under him.😄

Hey, TimesUpBellEnd, we probably need to get a manager in who doesn't get too many wins because that can dent players confidence can't it? 😄

On 06/03/2023 at 08:56, bacik said:

What? Lampard spend most of his time trying to undo Sarris safety first approach. We played nothing like Sarri, we played fast, direct football not slow possession give it to Hazard and inshallah football we played under Sarri  He even dropped Jorginho.

This is rubbish, we were more attacking under Lampard but we still constantly tried to walk the ball into the box, and many games we would dominate possession and not do enough with the ball. Especially with our defenders, it was constant sideways passing. 

Tuchel actually made us a more counter-attacking team when it came to playing top sides, in the CL we were very direct and hit teams on the break which made us more effective. But against low block sides we struggled to break them down and got hit on the counter. 

6 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

This is rubbish, we were more attacking under Lampard but we still constantly tried to walk the ball into the box, and many games we would dominate possession and not do enough with the ball. Especially with our defenders, it was constant sideways passing. 

Tuchel actually made us a more counter-attacking team when it came to playing top sides, in the CL we were very direct and hit teams on the break which made us more effective. But against low block sides we struggled to break them down and got hit on the counter. 

Honestly the biggest problem we had against smaller sides under Tuchel was our lack of creative players to break down low blocks. Hudson Odoi had our highest chances created per 90 by far, which pretty much sums the situation up. If Tuchel had been given players like Enzo we could have easily challenged for the league.

7 hours ago, just said:

OK. Apologies Sconnie. Was a bit harsh in the opening of my last post.

So without wordplay.

1. I do not believe, for a second, that Roman, Buck, Marina or anyone in the administration team tasked Sarri with changing the philosophy and culture of Chelsea FC by insisting on a set style of football being used. Nor Conte, Scolari, Mourinho etc. The ONLY objectives any manager was set under the Roman tenure was to win titles and trophies. There were other aspirations like reducing nett spend and using young homegrown talent. But these were always secondary to winning titles and trophies.

2. @icecoolguy22 has said in his post Sarri started well but his system soon got sussed out by EPL managers. 100% correct. They pressed higher and faster, denied space in midfield, and generally got more physical. The result was our players had less time and room and the tikki-taka style passing intended to retain possession ended up being mostly sideways and backwards. Our game slowed down drastically and our forward movement was badly lacking.

3. Sarri had the luxury of having two players here who were, at that time, unarguably in the Top 10 players in the world. Kante and Hazard. And a centre-forward in Giroud, who, whilst not a goal machine, was at least a genuine centre-forward who could hold the ball up, pose a threat and score a goal two. These were major assets Potter doesn't have at his disposal.

4. @Qaz in his post has said Sarri's breif stint in charge wasn't a disaster and with the assets available he ultimately delivered what was expected as a minimum. Again, I agree. But we did benefit from some of the teams around us imploding at the end. Particularly Tottenham who had been ahead of us in the battle for a CL spot. Fortunately for us they got all Spursy, and in their last 12 games only won 3 and had 7 defeats. 

5. Sarri himself. I'll repeat what I said before. He never, at any point, looked like he was enjoying the ride and really wanted to be here. Yes, the fans gave him a rough time pretty quickly but IMO that was down to Sarri's dour persona, lack of communication, the slow, sideways, boring football "Sarriball" largely became, and the up and down results. Some of the player's comments about his confusing tactics and training systems didn't help either. But, as I have said before, if he really wanted to be here, if he really wanted to implement a new football philosophy and culture at Chelsea, he could have stayed. 

I hope all this gives you some rational argument for my own opinions?

Regarding point 2 I actually think the early games were just as boring in (terms of entertainment) as the middle one's, but not many cared at that point because it was such a novelty to see us good in possesion after the crap Conte served up the previous season.

For me things were starting to look better in the final 3rd of the season, I feel the Tottenham game was a bit of a turning point in that regard.

Rergarding point 3 at the same time couldn't we say Potter has better defenders? James, Silva and Chilwell are on another planet to Azpi (of that time), Luiz, a pre Tuchel Rudi and Alonso. 

And while we have different views on the level Jorginho was for us I think we can both agree Enzo is a massive upgrade.

7 hours ago, abister1 said:

Because Chelsea never went through any competent hiring process. 

Todd had heard that Brighton chap was good from the guys boss at one of the numerous social events he attended and large sections of the press selling him as the next big thing since Cruyff. 

He decided that was enough to make a decision based on for a club that's easily in any top 10 list of football clubs in the world. Folly him. 

Have you got anything resembling evidence that was the case?

3 minutes ago, Argo said:

Regarding point 2 I actually think the early games were just as boring in (terms of entertainment) as the middle one's, but not many cared at that point because it was such a novelty to see us good in possesion after the crap Conte served up the previous season.

For me things were starting to look better in the final 3rd of the season, I feel the Tottenham game was a bit of a turning point in that regard.

Rergarding point 3 at the same time couldn't we say Potter has better defenders? James, Silva and Chilwell are on another planet to Azpi (of that time), Luiz, a pre Tuchel Rudi and Alonso. 

And while we have different views on the level Jorginho was for us I think we can both agree Enzo is a massive upgrade.

One thing Sarri did do was make us excellent at playing out from the back, it carried over through Lamapard and Tuchel's terms too. It's one of the reasons for our success against pressing teams like City and Liverpool in recent years. It's only under Potter where we're giving the ball away cheaply again.

1 minute ago, Drogba1 said:

Honestly the biggest problem we had against smaller sides under Tuchel was our lack of creative players to break down low blocks. Hudson Odoi had our highest chances created per 90 by far, which pretty much sums the situation up. If Tuchel had been given players like Enzo we could have easily challenged for the league.

I do agree with the OP that Sarri changed our style (in my opinion for the worse) and we've struggled to challenge for the title since then, we can't seem to ditch this constant sideways passing possession-obsessed football. 

But our transfer market since Conte's 2nd season also reflects our piss poor league form over the past 6 years, for me, Thiago Silva is the only world-class signing we've made in the past 6 years. Not seen enough of Enzo and Mudryk to make that sort of claim just yet. 

There was a brief moment when I thought we were going to be league winners just last season, but once we lost our wingbacks that all went to sh*t. We relied too much on James and Chilwell to stretch teams apart and make space, we've lacked the creativity and decisiveness to consistently beat teams for years which is what you have to do to win a league title or even challenge for one. 

I'm excited by some of our new prospects but they can't get going under Potter which is a big problem. 

33 minutes ago, Argo said:

Rergarding point 3 at the same time couldn't we say Potter has better defenders? James, Silva and Chilwell are on another planet to Azpi (of that time), Luiz, a pre Tuchel Rudi and Alonso. 

I feel point 3 still stands on merit Argo. Unarguably Kante and Hazard were Top 10 in the world then. I doubt there was any team either of them would not have got into at that time when both fit. We don't have any players we can say that of now, not even RJ or Enzo. Hopefully, in a few years though.

1 hour ago, just said:

I feel point 3 still stands on merit Argo. Unarguably Kante and Hazard were Top 10 in the world then. I doubt there was any team either of them would not have got into at that time when both fit. We don't have any players we can say that of now, not even RJ or Enzo. Hopefully, in a few years though.

I think a fit Reece James would start for pretty much any team in the world at this point

3 hours ago, Argo said:

Have you got anything resembling evidence that was the case?

I've really considered ignoring you because for you to ask that suggests I shouldn't waste my energy. 

If you think any manager getting appointed into a post 48 hrs after the sack of the previous one, a manager that by the way is already managing another club, has come through a competent hiring process, when said manager is not a successful manager, has won nothing of note and will probably not win anything of note in his lifetime based on his antecedents then I can't help you. 

Mind you, I'm going to say I'm not so arrogant that I think a man that has never won anything before cannot go on to win. But as to my point about competent hiring process, you cannot query it without examining the meaning of that word competent in itself. 

Please note a man hiring another whose values he admires or thinks aligns more to what he wants is not a satisfaction of the competency criteria. 

I really don't want to be pedantic or insult your intelligence but please do you realise I actually mean a competent hiring process when I write a competent hiring process? 

Not a unanimous selection action. It was widely reported within a few hours of sacking TT Chelsea had approached Brighton for permission to speak to him and later that night initial discussions had been had with GP. 

In my planet it tells me all I need to know there was no competent hiring process, it might tell something else on the planet you exist in. 

4 minutes ago, abister1 said:

I've really considered ignoring you because for you to ask that suggests I shouldn't waste my energy. 

If you think any manager getting appointed into a post 48 hrs after the sack of the previous one, a manager that by the way is already managing another club, has come through a competent hiring process, when said manager is not a successful manager, has won nothing of note and will probably not win anything of note in his lifetime based on his antecedents then I can't help you. 

Mind you, I'm going to say I'm not so arrogant that I think a man that has never won anything before cannot go on to win. But as to my point about competent hiring process, you cannot query it without examining the meaning of that word competent in itself. 

Please note a man hiring another whose values he admires or thinks aligns more to what he wants is not a satisfaction of the competency criteria. 

I really don't want to be pedantic or insult your intelligence but please do you realise I actually mean a competent hiring process when I write a competent hiring process? 

Not a unanimous selection action. It was widely reported within a few hours of sacking TT Chelsea had approached Brighton for permission to speak to him and later that night initial discussions had been had with GP. 

In my planet it tells me all I need to know there was no competent hiring process, it might tell something else on the planet you exist in. 

Personal attacks, how classy. Never done this before on here but unless I get an apology or the post is deleted before the end of this current match I will be reporting this post.

Edited March 7, 20233 yr by Argo

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

Personal attacks, how classy. Never done this before on here but unless I get an apology or the post is deleted before the end of this current match I will be reporting this post.

Personal attack? 

Classy? 

Ultimatum much? 

C'est la vie!