All the talk on here with people jerking off over Sarri and Tuchel makes me laugh. People have short memories. Look back at some of the posts during either eras, and you will see how frustrated the bulk of the fans were at both managers at times.

Both Sarri and TT (and lamps towards the end) had us playing some of the worst, unimaginative, boring and unprogressive football that has ever been served up at the bridge.

The risk averse nature of their football (pass back and keep possession rather than look for a defence splitting through ball) was mind numbing. In my opinion, that negative, play it safe, mindset is a big reason for our continued current struggles. The players always had an excuse not to try their best and unlock a defence. Always had an excuse to take the easy backwards option. And we have continued to see that recently. Our signing of a new team will hopefully help get out that mindset - although I remain unconvinced that Potter will allow the new players to release the handbreak. But regardless of whether potter is a success or failure - it doesn't change anything about Sarri or TT, and we shouldn't rewrite history to suggest that the football under either of them was champagne. It was mostly dross.

4 hours ago, Blueboys said:

Hazards G/A in the league that year were 50% of the teams goals. We lost 4-0 at Bournemouth, 6-0 at City even Spurs beat us more than once that season. We stole 3rd at the end of the season ending with 3 draws and a win because spurs and arsenal both bottled it in the last 7/8 games. 
 

Yes we played well in that final but let’s not pretend it was some amazing season in which we were playing amazing football

 

💯

4 hours ago, Blueboys said:

Hazards G/A in the league that year were 50% of the teams goals. We lost 4-0 at Bournemouth, 6-0 at City even Spurs beat us more than once that season. We stole 3rd at the end of the season ending with 3 draws and a win because spurs and arsenal both bottled it in the last 7/8 games. 
 

Yes we played well in that final but let’s not pretend it was some amazing season in which we were playing amazing football

 

Sarri fans don't understand how Sarriball works. 

If you do, you would not be surprised why he lasted only one season with juve

Edited March 5, 20233 yr by Bob stark

5 hours ago, Dean said:

Yeah I’m not going to make any comparisons with Potter. But I think Sarri and his brand of football get a bad rep. Towards the end of the season we started putting in some really good performances. He himself criticised the football under him as many times as anyone on here did. It wasn’t actually what he was going for. Work in progress etc.

Sarriball when it flowed, eg at Napoli, was pretty amazing. The guy had original ideas about football and how it should be played - kind of a philosopher. He came from an industry that had nothing to do with football, worked his way all the way to the top. He then moved to England where he hardly spoke the language, had no experience of the league. Took some abuse from fans that was really OTT and I was frankly sickened by. Got us third and won that cup final vs Arsenal playing attractive football. You don’t have to like him or his football. But he deserves respect. Pretty phenomenal what he achieved all in all. 

Sarriball original ideas Dean? You obviously never saw the Rinus Michels Ajax team of the 1970's. It was where the phrase "Total Football" comes from!

So much revisionism about our year of Sarriball occurs on here IMO. Most of the time the football was boring to the point of being sleep inducing, with some players openly admitting they were confused by his training methods and weren't clear on what he was trying to achieve. That's hardly surprising IMO as he never came across as a charismatic personality and fluent communicator. And then of course there is also the fact that the football and the players he made  successful in Serie A may not have been such a good fit in the much faster, higher tempo EPL. Gonzalo Higuain anybody?

Also agree with @Blueboys. I too did not see this alleged big improvement towards the end of his reign. The last 5 games of the season only saw us win one game. That run included a 2-2 home draw with Burnley! We got 3rd place because Tottenham and Arsenal imploded, rather than our Sarriball reaching new heights.

 

 

Edited March 5, 20233 yr by just

5 hours ago, Blueboys said:

Hazards G/A in the league that year were 50% of the teams goals. We lost 4-0 at Bournemouth, 6-0 at City even Spurs beat us more than once that season. We stole 3rd at the end of the season ending with 3 draws and a win because spurs and arsenal both bottled it in the last 7/8 games. 
 

Yes we played well in that final but let’s not pretend it was some amazing season in which we were playing amazing football

 

Spot on. Summed up and evidenced far more eloquently than I did!

18 minutes ago, just said:

Sarriball original ideas Dean? You obviously never saw the Rinus Michels Ajax team of the 1970's. It was where the phrase "Total Football" comes from!

So much revisionism about our year of Sarriball occurs on here IMO. Most of the time the football was boring to the point of being sleep inducing, with some players openly admitting they were confused by his training methods and weren't clear on what he was trying to achieve. That's hardly surprising IMO as he never came across as a charismatic personality and fluent communicator. And then of course there is also the fact that the football and the players he made  successful in Serie A may not have been such a good fit in the much faster, higher tempo EPL. Gonzalo Higuain anybody?

Also agree with @Blueboys. I too did not see this alleged big improvement towards the end of his reign. The last 5 games of the season only saw us win one game. That run included a 2-2 home draw with Burnley! We got 3rd place because Tottenham and Arsenal imploded, rather than our Sarriball reaching new heights.

 

 

Oh just - why let reality get in the way of a good agenda and unhealthy amount of spin?

Look forward to this time in 2 years, when  people will be trying to get us believe that Jorginho was a defence splitting assist machine. 

The summary of all this is really simple.

We have been playing 'boring, unprogressive sh*t' for years. That has been diluted by the fact that despite playing 'boring, unprogressive sh*t', we have still won trophies and sneaked into the top 4 regularly. The only time we were not playing 'boring, unprogressive sh*t'' was during Lamps era - but that came at the expense of no defence. And revenue that didn't last - because when the pressure came, he also reverted to the 'boring, unprogressive sh*t' we saw before (and after) him.

Sure there has been games here and there when we have looked ok, or even good....but it has never lasted long, and the short term nature of our planning over the last x years has crippled our ability to reset, and move away from the 'boring, unprogressive sh*t'.

Now is a chance to do that. 
 

Again I am still not convinced Potter is the man - but by backtracking now, we risk further exposure to longer term 'boring, unprogressive sh*t'.

'boring, unprogressive sh*t' (TM)

It is bit complicated to go on about us being boring and unprogressive. You can ask City fans or Real fans about their feelings of their last 5 seasons. I am 100% sure their fans will say they should be more progressive and less boring. 

I remember thinking in Jose's second season we are massively boring even though we won almost every game. I thought the way we won was tedious. To give us wins now like that... 😂

The best balanced teams are able to win games and many times their football looks boring or unprogressive. Napoli at this very moment is probably the best football playing side in Europe. Everything works for them. But as Napoli is relatively small club to the juggernauts their success is hanging on a thread. Their squad and coach Spaletti will be raided by bigger clubs next summer. Their success is not based on a long progression of club culture. It is much more everything hitting the sweet spot at this very moment. 

We have the chance as a rich club to make ourselves a much solid base in terms of football style and level so that our bad season is 3rd in the league and good season is trophies. We are still season's away from that but our resources give us that opportunity.

2 hours ago, nonotnowjim said:

Again I am still not convinced Potter is the man - but by backtracking now, we risk further exposure to longer term 'boring, unprogressive sh*t

You do realize Potter is known for ultra slow buildup? Brighton were essentially the slowest team in progressing the ball in the entire league under him. And so have we been under him unsurprisingly.

So if you want fast and direct football you are obviously backing the wrong horse.

8 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Don't fool yourself with silly excuses, when the manager knows what he's doing the best players end up being at their best.

4:1 win with 8 shots on target and a title with this lineup, "dire" my ass!

You act like this lineup is bad? Prime Kante and Hazard against one of the most average Arsenal defense and midfields i've ever seen. If we didn't win that final with ease i'd have been embarrassed.

30 minutes ago, OriginalS said:

You do realize Potter is known for ultra slow buildup? Brighton were essentially the slowest team in progressing the ball in the entire league under him. And so have we been under him unsurprisingly.

So if you want fast and direct football you are obviously backing the wrong horse.

Don't really get this graphic, is the Brighton badge what they were like last season or is the dot what they were like last season? 

Just now, RIP Mourinho said:

Don't really get this graphic, is the Brighton badge what they were like last season or is the dot what they were like last season? 

Badge is last season. The dot is the season before that one.

So they got progressively slower under him basically.

13 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

I'd be shocked if we even got conference league to be honest

It's my dream to win the trophy that's eluded us so far 

7 hours ago, Drogba1 said:

Hazard had his best season under Sarri, same with Ronaldo at Juventus, Higuain at Napoli. He's very good at getting the best out of attackers.

Sarri is a top manager that knew how to get the best out of his own best. Potter can't even lit his cigar.

32 minutes ago, RIP Mourinho said:

You act like this lineup is bad? Prime Kante and Hazard against one of the most average Arsenal defense and midfields i've ever seen. If we didn't win that final with ease i'd have been embarrassed.

Sarri made Hazard prime. And no, this wasn't Kante in his prime this was Kante trying to do something in the final third, under Sarri his most productive season but not his prime.

Sarri is a better manager than Potter, Potter would have lost that final.

As I say, I don't think he's blameless whatsoever, but the issue is bigger and deeper than Potter. This goes back five seasons and more. I really think the old ownership hindered us with poor signings, no clear sign of style, no patience with any manager, even the most successful ones.

We haven't had a true identity since José's first stint here almost two decades ago. We haven't had a proper striker for many seasons now. We let Giroud go, who at least would have done a reasonable job. We seemed to have targeted wide attackers, but nobody as the target man.

For me, I would have tried for someone like Vlahovic in Jan, but it didn't happen. We have known since the start of the season that Aubameyang was never really going to do a good job for us. 

Unfortunately I think Potter came in at the wrong time and has taken a large brunt of the blame for what is happening and has been manifesting for a few seasons, which is due to the fault of previous ownership. As much as Roman was good for us, he also left the squad in arguably a worse state. 

The fact we never replaced previous league winners with as much like for like quality as we could is pretty mad. I will always go back to 2010/11. We sacked Carlo, but could have signed Gerrard, Pirlo, Aguero, David Silva and others. We failed to do so. We signed a past prime Torres and couldn't rely on Drogba any longer. since then we struggled with a genuine world class goalscorer. 

Edited March 5, 20233 yr by enigma

32 minutes ago, enigma said:

As I say, I don't think he's blameless whatsoever, but the issue is bigger and deeper than Potter. This goes back five seasons and more. I really think the old ownership hindered us with poor signings, no clear sign of style, no patience with any manager, even the most successful ones.

We haven't had a true identity since José's first stint here almost two decades ago. We haven't had a proper striker for many seasons now. We let Giroud go, who at least would have done a reasonable job. We seemed to have targeted wide attackers, but nobody as the target man.

Is that getting better though? We are currently buying direct wingers for a manager who's doesn't play direct football and have traditionally prefered a back three system with no wingers. Mudryk is already reduced to a bench role despite being fantastic when he was allowed to play on his debut. Are we going to sign players for a back three system or are we going to sign players for a back 4 system going forward? It's a valid question with the current manager in charge.

It may be that it's Vivell who's bringing in the player and as he's from the Red Bull model he will go for direct players. But then that doesn't line up with the manager who won't be the right man for that kind of players.

Edited March 5, 20233 yr by OriginalS

53 minutes ago, enigma said:

We haven't had a true identity since José's first stint here almost two decades ago. We haven't had a proper striker for many seasons now. We let Giroud go, who at least would have done a reasonable job. We seemed to have targeted wide attackers, but nobody as the target man.

 

We didn’t keep it but we had a clear identity under Conte and under Tuchel at the beginning. Conte was brilliant moving us from long established 4 3 3 to 3 at the back. Giroud is long past it.

18 hours ago, The Rising Sun said:

I can't see us scoring 2 goals to go thru.

We're going out .

I think Potter is here for a while though. 

The club need to sort this out along with Potter. The subs didn't go down well with the fans apparently. 

There's some good talent in our squad, surely we have to improve soon?

 

The thing I can't work out and maybe it is just a case of perspective but all I have seen, for some time now, is an amazing array of talent that comes here and basically just deteriorates in front of our eyes. I wouldn't say it's necessarily a Potter thing although it seems to be heightened here as the money is bigger and it gets national attention.  But there seem to be so many players that come here, become poor and ineffectual and then in a couple of cases leave and revert to the players we bought.

Is it the other leagues are weaker, is it just our perception,  is it our recruitment regime not matching our supposed style of play, or is it sh*t coaches not being able to work with elite players.

I don't know the answer but until we find it I can't see the point of signing an Osimhen in the summer.  We'd ruin him so we might as well get a Jayden Stockley or someone from the lower leagues and keep our money in the bank.

We have to find a way to play the gets the best out of our players, doesn't crucify them. This Mudryk fella can be either a massive flop or the next Cristiano Ronaldo. At the moment we are killing him. ETH would have him rampaging through this league by now.

This is just one example. Potter has more tools at his disposal than any manager in this division. Its time now to use the tools that he has been given.

5 hours ago, OriginalS said:

You do realize Potter is known for ultra slow buildup? Brighton were essentially the slowest team in progressing the ball in the entire league under him. And so have we been under him unsurprisingly.

So if you want fast and direct football you are obviously backing the wrong horse.

This is exactly what I want. High intensity,  high tempo, high pressing, one and two touch football through the midfield and final third. One thing we can all surely agree on, when you see the words High Intensity,  your mind does not automatically picture Graham Potter.

8 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

This is exactly what I want. High intensity,  high tempo, high pressing, one and two touch football through the midfield and final third. One thing we can all surely agree on, when you see the words High Intensity,  your mind does not automatically picture Graham Potter.

Play FIFA or eFootball.

What you can’t deny is PL winning potential, the multi billion pound question is whether ‘Harry’ can harness it, i really don’t think he can, surely Auba offers more than Havz, who is really a 10, not a striker, Defence looks dependable, Midfield hmmmmm, attack how is he going shoe horn all these players into Mid and Fwd lines.

playing 433

Enzo-Zakaria-Kante if fit

Sterling -Auba-Mudryk 

Till end of season, or slight tweaks cos of injuries, Next season Nkunku and new Striker🙃😜😝😂😔🤔, I can foresee a huge clear out of non requireds to fit the winning 23-24 season.

2 hours ago, enigma said:

 

The fact we never replaced previous league winners with as much like for like quality as we could is pretty mad. I will always go back to 2010/11. We sacked Carlo, but could have signed Gerrard, Pirlo, Aguero, David Silva and others. We failed to do so. We signed a past prime Torres and couldn't rely on Drogba any longer. since then we struggled with a genuine world class goalscorer. 

Even when we do sign World class players, we don't know they're World class and let them leave (KDB Salah). We don't try to buy them back, but we do buy back some players who fool us into thinking they were World class (Lukaku).

14 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Sarri is a better manager than Potter, changed the way we played and won us something and also finished top 3, Potter is just a weak Tuchel wannabe.

Being better than Potter is hardly an endorsement at the momeht

5 hours ago, OriginalS said:

You do realize Potter is known for ultra slow buildup? Brighton were essentially the slowest team in progressing the ball in the entire league under him. And so have we been under him unsurprisingly.

So if you want fast and direct football you are obviously backing the wrong horse.

This graphic tells that the slow and intricate teams have better chances of top four and winning the league than the most direct and fastest, who are fighting relegation. But it could also indicate that the lower PL teams are more park the bus and counter attack, while the top teams have to break those teams and they do it with slow and intricate passes between the defensive lines.

6 hours ago, OriginalS said:

You do realize Potter is known for ultra slow buildup? Brighton were essentially the slowest team in progressing the ball in the entire league under him. And so have we been under him unsurprisingly.

So if you want fast and direct football you are obviously backing the wrong horse.

I can't believe anyone's buildup is slower than ours , we played walking football under Sarri