1 minute ago, RMH said:

I accept that we got the win and therefore the subs worked out well, but with Gallagher on for Felix, with about half the second half to play, it was asking for trouble. And I think that the change let them get the control of the match and get on top of us, and we were lucky not to go to extra time. I also don't agree with the Pulisic instead of Mudryk, knowing that Pulisic has not seen a minute of competitive football for months. I understand the defensive aspect dkw mentions, but don't agree with it. In any case, what matters is that we got the win and got through to the next round. So drinks all round.

You don't have to agree with it, you have to admit Potter got it right, that's all.

3 minutes ago, RMH said:

I accept that we got the win and therefore the subs worked out well, but with Gallagher on for Felix, with about half the second half to play, it was asking for trouble. And I think that the change let them get the control of the match and get on top of us, and we were lucky not to go to extra time. I also don't agree with the Pulisic instead of Mudryk, knowing that Pulisic has not seen a minute of competitive football for months. I understand the defensive aspect dkw mentions, but don't agree with it. In any case, what matters is that we got the win and got through to the next round. So drinks all round.

I agree with the second sub but I think Gallagher was the right call and he was Sterlings big toe being half an inch further back away from finishing the tie.

Enzo and Kova were tiring and Gallagher brought some much needed fresh energy to the middle of the park.

2 hours ago, Argo said:

Doesn't he? He did just that against us in his biggest game for City and had 36% possesion at The Emirates to name two examples. Klopp has kept the same formation but has changed his tactics multiple times to keep the rest of us on our toes.

Barca yes but they were a freak team we will never see again. Arsenal 06-14 tried to copy that blueprint and look what happened.

If anything he tried to be too loyal to his own style of play with Gundogan as the DM in the final. I assume he thought they would be able to keep the ball even better and tire us out by having us run between the ball but it obviously backfired. Arsenal too just beat them at their own game.

Its obviously fine to make adjustments when needed but to be so reactive that you for example take out all attackers and go 3-6-1 when Leeds put on an extra attacker or two at Stamford Bridge is over the top.

2 hours ago, BedfordBlue said:

Yesterday feels like it might be a turning point for Potter. I would love him to turn this around and prove the doubters (including myself) wrong.

Hey, we all want that. I don't think anybody hasn't anything particularly against Potter, except perhaps a few infantile twitter scrotums. If he can deliver an attractive style of football that ultimately brings us a good level of success and allows us to continue to attract and develop elite talent then we will all be major Potter fans.

We've just never seen any ability to achieve that here or anywhere else in England on a sustained basis.....yet.

1 hour ago, just said:

Brilliant post Enigma.

I would add by saying that last night we had a player in Havertz who played, for once, like a proper centre-forward. His hold up play, passing and movement was excellent and brought other players in to the game. And he posed a goal threat himself. I maintain, he is not and never will be a natural centre-forward, but that is the type of player we need to really make us tick and have more end product.

I agree. I find his constant needless desire to foul and get involved with teh opposition frustrating and often counter productive but undoubtedly he had a presence last night

32 minutes ago, coco said:

You don't have to agree with it, you have to admit Potter got it right, that's all.

Well, it worked out, that doesn’t mean that he got it right. The subs worked against Leeds, and I think they were really bad subs. Also, I thought he got it spot on in Dortmund, but we lost so he got it wrong? 

3 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

Hey, we all want that. I don't think anybody hasn't anything particularly against Potter, except perhaps a few infantile twitter scrotums. If he can deliver an attractive style of football that ultimately brings us a good level of success and allows us to continue to attract and develop elite talent then we will all be major Potter fans.

We've just never seen any ability to achieve that here or anywhere else in England on a sustained basis.....yet.

not sure we all want that

TimesUpPotter seems to have a particular agenda - if his username is anything to go by. Either that, or he is a very small boy. 

39 minutes ago, coco said:

Yes i get that, but my point is no matter what we think, he should do it his own way, that's why we he's manager and not us, our opinions are made from limited evidence, 90/180 mins per week.

He has been doing that all season to be honest, hence the rhetoric from everyone until now. Going your own way is fine all the time it is working but get it wrong (continuously) and people will start questioning you and that doesn't matter if you are Potter or Guardiola. It was only a month ago Guardiola was beign criticised over the Haaland signing. If Haaland doesn't score Man city don't score any more. That's all gone quiet again now that they are on Arsenal's coat tails.

Very good article on the BBC Sport website.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/64883891

 

 

11 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

He has been doing that all season to be honest, hence the rhetoric from everyone until now. Going your own way is fine all the time it is working but get it wrong (continuously) and people will start questioning you and that doesn't matter if you are Potter or Guardiola. It was only a month ago Guardiola was beign criticised over the Haaland signing. If Haaland doesn't score Man city don't score any more. That's all gone quiet again now that they are on Arsenal's coat tails.

Now were in a situation where we have some toxic support that gave up on Potter after Southampton, who are saying Potter got the subs wrong in his biggest game of the season, that he happened to win 2-0, now those toxic fans are caught between a rock and a hard place.

6 hours ago, AndyDowsleftflank said:

I’m not convinced the 3-4-3 is what we should be wedded to in the future, but it might have proven to be one change to many to go to a back four in this season of endless chaos. 
If we want to move to a back four, its much easier to do it in pre season. Hopefully we’ve had a major clearout and a far more settled squad at that time as well, which will help

I don't think it is easier to do it in pre season anymore. Pre season is a mess, it's all touring and brand promoting whilst trying to get players fit. If you asked a coach their real thoughts on pre season, I bet almost all of them would prefer to be back home on the training pitch so they can get to work. I think it's better to work on something new when the season is already under way and you have all of your players focused without any outside distractions. If we are going to change formation in the future, then best do it now, because if we wait for pre season, then we are going to see the same problems with trying to adapt to it that we are seeing now.

1 minute ago, Scott Harris said:

I don't think it is easier to do it in pre season anymore. Pre season is a mess, it's all touring and brand promoting whilst trying to get players fit. If you asked a coach their real thoughts on pre season, I bet almost all of them would prefer to be back home on the training pitch so they can get to work. I think it's better to work on something new when the season is already under way and you have all of your players focused without any outside distractions. If we are going to change formation in the future, then best do it now, because if we wait for pre season, then we are going to see the same problems with trying to adapt to it that we are seeing now.

Preseason in the states has become a mess given the travel. We went from Vegas, to Charlotte, to Orlando. Literally across the country for each match. That is absurd. 

 

With regards to the 343, the only solution I can think of is, again much like Tuchel, is to alternate between the 343 and 4222.  This way wide players in Mudryk and Madueke can be effective and involved. 

23 minutes ago, coco said:

Now were in a situation where we have some toxic support that gave up on Potter after Southampton, who are saying Potter got the subs wrong in his biggest game of the season, that he happened to win 2-0, now those toxic fans are caught between a rock and a hard place.

If you refer to me, then you can't be more wrong. I am not a Potter out and I've always said that he needed until the end of the season to see any progress or not. Southampton was dreadful, yeah, and I thought that he was out of his depth and that if we were to change coach it should have been done swiftly after that match. And no, I'm not part of that "toxic support" that you mention, I didn't boo our players nor the coach at the end of the match, just as I didn't boo Cucurella at West Ham, despite having spent my money going to these games. I think that some of his subs were dubious, just as I think that he got it right at Dortmund and West Ham despite the loss and the draw. Do you then admit that he got it wrong in those two games (and all those we lost before), following your logic?

If we can't discuss in a civilised manner (without having a dig at others every so often) or have an opinion about this on this thread, what's the point of a forum?

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by RMH

In terms of raw, natural ability, Mudryk is probably the stand out in the squad. I think its easy to understand why there is frustration when players like Pulisic, who will be sold this summer, is starting over Mudryk when Mudryk is the future. 

Gallagher sub execution didn't work against Leeds so again, there lies why there was frustration. 

If Potter continues to shut the fans up, that's just credit to him. We will hold on to that L firmly and proudly if it means the club is progressing. 

End of the day I did not agree with his line up (especially Trev being left out for Cucu, who was amazing), and like many I was calling for Mudryk once we went 2 up to give us that threat ok the counter.

However on this occasion it worked, he got it right, my calls were wrong.

Now I want to see these same correct calls, and the same effort from the players, in the league. We know how the CL acts like a huge pick me up drug to players.

8 minutes ago, RMH said:

If you refer to me, then you can't be more wrong. I am not a Potter out and I've always said that he needed until the end of the season to see any progress or not. Southampton was dreadful, yeah, and I thought that he was out of his depth and that if we were to change coach it should have been done swiftly after that match. And no, I'm not part of that "toxic support" that you mention, I didn't boo our players nor the coach at the end of the match, just as I didn't boo Cucurella at West Ham, despite having spent my money going to these games. I think that some of his subs were dubious, just as I think that he got it right at Dortmund and West Ham despite the loss and the draw. Do you then admit that he got it wrong in those two games (and all those we lost before), following your logic?

If we can't discuss in a civilised manner (without having a dig at others every so often) or have an opinion about this on this thread, what's the point of a forum?

I wasnt talking about you, you got the wrong end of the stick, im on about TimesupPotter and his crew,

4 minutes ago, axman2526 said:

We know how the CL acts like a huge pick me up drug to players.

The optimist in me believes we genuinely have a chance in the CL, and I think the players know that too. This system is just fine tuned for Europe. 

Just need a favorable draw/bracket. 

Edited March 8, 20233 yr by Sconnie Blue

3 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

The optimist in me believes we genuinely have a chance in the CL, and I think the players know that too. This system is just fine tuned for Europe. 

Just need a favorable draw/bracket. 

I guess we may see Milan, RB Leipzig or Benfica as favourable, certainly when compared to City, Bayern, PSG or Real, but given where we are I don't see any easy draws.

3 hours ago, just said:

Personally I have never been able to fathom over why people get hung up in the debate over it was this system, or it was that system, we should be play this formation, or play that formation.

All the really great teams have one thing in common. Adaptability. Being able to switch between formations and tactics to suit different opponents or the specific circumstances you are facing at that moment on the pitch. 

I don't think that is the case  with all great team. All of them stick to their gun and make minor changes here and there to adapt to their opp. 

If you keep changing your system to suit your opp it mean you put more  emphasis on nullifying opp strength rather than maximizing your strength. 

6 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

The optimist in me believes we genuinely have a chance in the CL, and I think the players know that too. This system is just fine tuned for Europe. 

Just need a favorable draw/bracket. 

Were the underdogs, mid table prem team with minus GD, has any underdog team ever won three Champions League titles ? We were even underdogs in 08.

 

1 hour ago, OriginalS said:

If anything he tried to be too loyal to his own style of play with Gundogan as the DM in the final. I assume he thought they would be able to keep the ball even better and tire us out by having us run between the ball but it obviously backfired. Arsenal too just beat them at their own game.

Its obviously fine to make adjustments when needed but to be so reactive that you for example take out all attackers and go 3-6-1 when Leeds put on an extra attacker or two at Stamford Bridge is over the top.

But that was just minor changes. Pep played Gundo to add more technicallity in their midfield so they could keep the ball better but the way they played was the same as usual. 

 

 

1 hour ago, coco said:

Yes i get that, but my point is no matter what we think, he should do it his own way, that's why we he's manager and not us, our opinions are made from limited evidence, 90/180 mins per week.

Yep, fully agree with you.

33 minutes ago, coco said:

I wasnt talking about you, you got the wrong end of the stick, im on about TimesupPotter and his crew,

I apologise then.

3 hours ago, WhiteWall said:

Hey, we all want that. I don't think anybody hasn't anything particularly against Potter, except perhaps a few infantile twitter scrotums. If he can deliver an attractive style of football that ultimately brings us a good level of success and allows us to continue to attract and develop elite talent then we will all be major Potter fans.

We've just never seen any ability to achieve that here or anywhere else in England on a sustained basis.....yet.

TimesUpPotter must fall into the infantile twitter scrotum sub section

4 hours ago, coco said:

Now were in a situation where we have some toxic support that gave up on Potter after Southampton, who are saying Potter got the subs wrong in his biggest game of the season, that he happened to win 2-0, now those toxic fans are caught between a rock and a hard place.

I think "gave up on Potter" is a bit melodramatic and i also don't class fellow fans that question the direction the team that they support is going makes them toxic at all.

I find football fans targeting individuals associated with the club with offensive and often criminial social media posts directly at the individuals concerned as toxic.

I also find taking exception to fans that have a different opinion and then posting derogatory comments on teh forum about them or their posts can create a toxic atmosphere sometimes.

For me, i am happy reading and responding to posts from all of the members of this forum, even if those posts differ from my own opinion, on the basis that I believe that at the end of the day nobody really cares whether Graham Potter, Harry Potter or even Beatrix Potter is manager of the team providing Chelsea are playing well and winning.