13 minutes ago, WhiteWall said:

I live in the UK and work in London for an American owned company. I am currently on holiday in Egypt. If I posted something to a public social media site of me being racist, homophobic or any significant breach of the code of conduct and ethics I have signed and it got back to my company, causing an uproar from my colleagues I would be open to disciplinary action, which in my case being a nobody, would be summary dismissal. Doesn't matter where I am in the world, Doesn't matter that its on my own time. We do DEI online training every single month, we have to complete an annual code of conduct and ethics certification process. Why would it be any different in the world of football, in fact I would expect it to be hammered home even more in such a publicly high profile environment. 

But let's then compare what is comparable because I don't believe that the club is at fault for how Argentina celebrated their Copa America title at all, Enzo in that context isn't representing Chelsea but his country and it's their way of doing things in their own bus.

Is he silly for posting that on social media well yes he is but it also shows just how little thought went into it and it is a song from the World Cup, after which our club signed him so it wasn't a problem back then so that can also be a thing to think about.

Just now, WhiteWall said:

I am not sure people are necessarily saying that he is a racist but they are unhappy that he and his teammates have made racist chants which they have streamed across the world.

I think you are weaving an unsteady path here as you, I think, acknowledge the racist and homophobic elements of the chant and state here that it is stupid, generated by the fans, when n your opening post you stated Argentinian football fans are the best in the world. 

My point is that Argentinians are regarded as the best fans in the world, this one chant where they mock France being strong due to having players that originally have a different ethnic background is a terrible way of mocking a rival but to me it does show their extreme football culture but not that the Argentinian team is racist.

So I don't believe that Enzo is racist, their mentality is just different and I'm sure he didn't think for one second that he is representing Chelsea during that time and IMO it shouldn't be treated as if it's a problem of the club, it's really not.

People mixing apples and oranges don't help either, should he be kicked from the club because of that? If anyone truly believes that then fair enough, let's lose a top player while all other clubs will just keep quiet for a week and let business continue as usual and keep their players from that squad that won the World Cup and back-to-back Copa America.

Well reading the pages here is interesting. Shows a divide and that's not even the team itself.

Nico's posts illustrate the sides will be taken comment I made earlier. Totally terrible situation for squad harmony and team building for a young squad. 

Also these pages prove that racism is real. What a sh*t show of counters, rationalisation and defense of racism under the umbrella of culture. 

On 15/07/2024 at 22:01, SydneyChelsea said:

Enzo just shared a video, to his personal Instagram, of his team mates singing a somewhat racist and homophobic chant about France (wtf) and Mbappe's transgender former partner.

A first big test of character for the new ownership. I sincerely hope he gets sacked. He deserves to be nowhere near this club or English football.

 

 

 

 

If you're caught using racist or homophobic chants etc at football you'll get banned and cop a criminal conviction to go with it.

Our fans got  life bans for the Paris Metro incident.

What a f**king clown

33 minutes ago, Gol15 said:

So I don't believe that Enzo is racist, their mentality is just different

Different in a racist way? 

Something isn't racist just because the person saying it doesn't recognise or understand it as racist. 

Very tiring to see people try to minimise or explain away racism (and transphobia and homophobia for that matter). Makes me wonder about the overlap with people who say taking the knee or other anti racist initiatives are unnecessary. 

P. S. If your grandad used the term paki, be under no illusion, he was a racist. 

 

 

Edited July 17, 20242 yr by g3.7

1 hour ago, WhiteWall said:

I am not sure people are necessarily saying that he is a racist but they are unhappy that he and his teammates have made racist chants which they have streamed across the world.

I think you are weaving an unsteady path here as you, I think, acknowledge the racist and homophobic elements of the chant and state here that it is stupid, generated by the fans, when n your opening post you stated Argentinian football fans are the best in the world. 

Spot on mate.

As I've posted earlier, fans in this country rightly get criminal convictions and stadium bans for exactly the same behaviour. 

Apart from his behaviour, what a f**king idiot to believe it was ok to have it filmed . Doesn't he know what inevitably happens when this sh*t is caught on camera ?

 

1 hour ago, Simplymo said:

100%, yep the media is just looking for any chance to say something about Chels. Even an article on the beeb today about what Chelsea has been upto in the transfer market and how we can afford it while everyone was "distracted" with euros. They just itch for a story to publish about Chels, especially if its negative. 

I wish the other faces on the bus were more obvious!

This is a "Chelsea problem" as Enzo is a Chelsea player.  But this is primarily an Argentinian problem. There were Argentinian coaches and staff and other very famous Argentinian players on that racist bus. Yes, Chelsea should take action against Enzo and maybe he should leave?  Remember Mutu having his contract cancelled and moved along due to his cocaine problem and this is much worse as it has a direct impact on our team/squad.

LATEST: The club “has accepted his apology” and they have launched “an investigation”. Which is Code for nothing will be done.

Good luck with this in the changing room Enzo Sr.

8 hours ago, Zeta said:

Apology + fine + some discrimination training or something. No need to blow it massively out or proportion. Talk of sacking him is insane.

Also, since most of the bus were singing it, how come he's the only one getting into any trouble?

It was being broadcast on Enzo's live feed.

 

 

What's all this sh*t about " their culture is different" ?

Are there acceptable levels of racism and homophobia ?

4 hours ago, Scott Harris said:

They could ban them, but they won't. UEFA and FIFA love to talk like they care about these kinds of things, but when the time comes to act, they hand out the most pitiful punishments.

FIFA held a world cup in a country that the UN called " structurally racist" and where gays etc etc are imprisoned.

FIFA ignored all that because the money and bribes were good .

If we were honest with ourselves most of us have used derogatory language which could be viewed as racist or misogynistic or transphobic at some point in our lives.

i grew up in the 70’s in a town where being gay wasn’t really accepted. I’ve used words that I deeply regret now and have learned we are all the same. 
 

It wasn’t until I was in my mid 20’s that I truly understood the effect words can have on people and how horrible words that were said in jest can really affect someone.

He deserves a punishment and education and then the squad will decide if he is reintegrated if they decide his apology is genuine. 
 

I just hope that the squad are left to make this decision and there isn’t any pressure on them from the board because of the vast sum we paid for him.

ill say again though that Argentina isn’t as far down the road in tackling discrimination as the UK is. I saw it for myself quite a few times when I spent 4 months there. 
 

 

 

I think there is a way to settle this based on historic  precedent 

Send Enzo out to sea on a boat and the English lads in the squad get to sink it and declare themselves winners of the war.

Alls well that ends well.

Sick and tired of this. Why isit always our club involved in a racism scandal????

Did this ever come to fruition? 

Chelsea to send racist fans on Auschwitz trips instead of banning them

1 hour ago, CaitlinCFC said:

I am more offended at this seasons home shirt.

Well it is offensive in a different way.

Though I stand by a picture of you in it saves it for most people.

Soon as Ann-Kat is pictured in it @Modwill be getting one, then every one she warSheff next season too. 

27 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

Different in a racist way? 

Something isn't racist just because the person saying it doesn't recognise or understand it as racist. 

Very tiring to see people try to minimise or explain away racism (and transphobia and homophobia for that matter). Makes me wonder about the overlap with people who say taking the knee or other anti racist initiatives are unnecessary. 

P. S. If your grandad used the term paki, be under no illusion, he was a racist. 

 

 

I have to defend Gol here. I'm of the generation that used words that are unacceptable today.

I can tell you it absolutely does NOT follow that it means that the person is a racist.  The generation before me laid down their lives to fight against racist, Nazi ideology, they, and myself used words that to us were just descriptive of certain races , we had no other reference point. In fact I remember when we told that using the word " blacks" was insulting..." Coloured" was more acceptable.

You can't hold a moral judgement by judging others from past generations by the standards of today, which did not exist back then but evolved over time .

Racism and homophobia are abhorrent to me , but I grew up supporting Chelsea when it wasn't exactly unusual.

Times have moved on , thank God it's not acceptable anymore.

 

10 minutes ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Did this ever come to fruition? 

Chelsea to send racist fans on Auschwitz trips instead of banning them

Yes   @g3.7 brought me back a fridge magnet.

Enzo discussion on talk sport in a minute of anyone's interested ?

Warning 

Big twat Rory Jennings is on it

2 minutes ago, The Rising Sun said:

Enzo discussion on talk sport in a minute of anyone's interested ?

Warning 

Big twat Rory Jennings is on it

Thanks, but no thanks. Rory Jennings is a massive w**ker. I hate that he is treated as some sort of voice of the fans.

Our fans got prison sentences of between 6 months and a year for the metro incident.

What did it for them was the brief chant .

 

12 minutes ago, Scott Harris said:

Thanks, but no thanks. Rory Jennings is a massive w**ker. I hate that he is treated as some sort of voice of the fans.

Yeah I never understood why he has a following he's a nonce.

5 hours ago, Gol15 said:

Feel free to be offended nobody is stopping you but one day you'll maybe understand that it's just aimed as a dig at the French team, those players on the bus don't actually care about someone's skin color, they know that their own origin isn't exactly from any kind of "native Argentina" either... That's why context matters but if you don't get it no problem I have nothing personal against you so your insults just come across as awkward to me, I wasn't on that bus.

Fantastic overly simplistic  viewpoint. So,  following your logic, the english players and fans would be cleared to sing "Galtieri disappeared your mother and sister" And "You were slaughtered at Goose Green because Las Malvinas are British"

Gol, mate. Connect the dots for f**k sake!

 

45 minutes ago, g3.7 said:

Different in a racist way? 

Something isn't racist just because the person saying it doesn't recognise or understand it as racist. 

Very tiring to see people try to minimise or explain away racism (and transphobia and homophobia for that matter). Makes me wonder about the overlap with people who say taking the knee or other anti racist initiatives are unnecessary. 

P. S. If your grandad used the term paki, be under no illusion, he was a racist. 

 

 

In South America it's very normal to call a person with a darker skin tone as "morenita" or "negra" and nobody cares, pointing out a person's appearance simply isn't considered rude there so you can't ignore the fact that the cultures around the world are different and that certain things don't have loaded meanings at all as in other places, in the Western world calling someone short is seen as rude but if you get upset if someone calls you "chaparrito" in the Latin-American culture you would be seen as a more sensitive person than normal.

Bothering and being rude isn't the same as being racist, like England fans saying to Germany "2 World Wars, 1 World Cup", offensive, teasing and mocking is a given but is it racist?

 

 

1 hour ago, Gol15 said:

But let's then compare what is comparable because I don't believe that the club is at fault for how Argentina celebrated their Copa America title at all, Enzo in that context isn't representing Chelsea but his country and it's their way of doing things in their own bus.

Is he silly for posting that on social media well yes he is but it also shows just how little thought went into it and it is a song from the World Cup, after which our club signed him so it wasn't a problem back then so that can also be a thing to think about.

My point is that Argentinians are regarded as the best fans in the world, this one chant where they mock France being strong due to having players that originally have a different ethnic background is a terrible way of mocking a rival but to me it does show their extreme football culture but not that the Argentinian team is racist.

So I don't believe that Enzo is racist, their mentality is just different and I'm sure he didn't think for one second that he is representing Chelsea during that time and IMO it shouldn't be treated as if it's a problem of the club, it's really not.

People mixing apples and oranges don't help either, should he be kicked from the club because of that? If anyone truly believes that then fair enough, let's lose a top player while all other clubs will just keep quiet for a week and let business continue as usual and keep their players from that squad that won the World Cup and back-to-back Copa America.

We seem to be having a bit of a tennis match here. I appreciate your opinion and can see what position is, which I respect.

I have a different opinion and that is when you are a major global icon, acting as a brand inuour on right, within the overall brand universe of your employer, I believe you accept a responsibility to uphold the principles of said employer at all times, publicly. It happens everywhere. There are numerous instances of this in the world of sport. In fact within our own club, re Adrian Mutu.

I also don't think he should necessarily be kicked out of the club, providing there is genuine contrition from him, an understanding of the effect of his actions upon others, and the acceptance of his teammates into the fold. However, I have stated that he is potentially walking a tightrope with this ownership and I cited the Trevor Bauer case to illustrate this. Whilst they will laudably cite their intolerance for all forms of discrimination, brand jeopardy will be what they are most intolerant of.

 

14 minutes ago, just said:

Fantastic overly simplistic  viewpoint. So,  following your logic, the english players and fans would be cleared to sing "Galtieri disappeared your mother and sister" And "You were slaughtered at Goose Green because Las Malvinas are British"

Gol, mate. Connect the dots for f**k sake!

 

Being offensive and rude doesn't mean fans are automatically racist.

If France were to beat Argentina while having some players that have Argentinian roots or heritage, the Argentinian fans would mock them for that too, would that mean that they are then racist towards themselves? LOL

You should disconnect some dots maybe, trying to diminish a nation by pointing out that Mbappe's father isn't French but from somewhere else isn't really a racist statement at all since it doesn't mock Mbappe nor his background but it mocks the national team by implying that without Mbappe France would be a worse team and are only better with him...