4 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

we won our last league title nearly 8 years ago. we've had 8 managers since then...  How many years are you prepared to stumbling along? 

And out of those managers who do you think would have won us the league if they were given an unconditional amount of time?

53 minutes ago, Argo said:

And out of those managers who do you think would have won us the league if they were given an unconditional amount of time?

Good question, hard to really say, I think Tuchel could've got the team back together at some point. As for the rest of them, definitely not. I didn't hate Sarri as so many others did but I don't think he would've won a title here, especially not after Hazard leaving I think he saw a good opportunity to jump and he did. 

But if Jurgen Klopp was a Chelsea manager he would've been sacked about 2-3 times. Liverpool had a few moments when they were at the top, then massively regressed the next season and struggled. I remember how awful they were when we beat them under Lampard, people thought Klopp was getting the bullet but the board stuck to their guns and gave him time and he always managed to get them into the top 4. 

Our reputation doesn't exactly help because the players know once they down the tools they will get their own way, has it helped in our success? Well of course, but I would also argue we're feeling the downsides of it because we're currently running out of top quality experienced managers to hire and sometimes I don't think they get the time they deserve. 

 

Edited March 8, 20242 yr by Victor90

1 minute ago, Victor90 said:

 I remember how awful they were when we beat them under Lampard, people thought Klopp was getting the bullet but the board stuck to their guns and gave him time and he always managed to get them into the top 4. 
 

When did this ever happen? Lampard only ever beat Klopp in an FA cup tie where Liverpool went on to win the league.

Just now, Sconnie Blue said:

When did this ever happen? Lampard only ever beat Klopp in an FA cup tie where Liverpool went on to win the league.

Ah you're right I think I'm getting it wrong, was it Tuchel in charge when Mount scored the winner at Anfield? I think it was about 3 years ago, but I remember there was a lot of speculation about Klopp getting the axe. He's had a few moments in his Liverpool career where it looks like it was spiraling out of control but he always managed to turn it around when given time. 

2 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

Ah you're right I think I'm getting it wrong, was it Tuchel in charge when Mount scored the winner at Anfield? I think it was about 3 years ago, but I remember there was a lot of speculation about Klopp getting the axe. He's had a few moments in his Liverpool career where it looks like it was spiraling out of control but he always managed to turn it around when given time. 

That's a testament to his ability as a manager along with his ability to work with the club. He doesn't throw his toys out the pram or rustle feathers internally when things don't go his way. 

Tuchel's biggest issue is his personality. He's a difficult person to work with as history has shown given he's had a falling out at practically club he's been at.

And yet he never had a falling out with Roman/Marina and actually looked like he was going to be our guy long term until the sale.

9 minutes ago, Amputechture said:

And yet he never had a falling out with Roman/Marina and actually looked like he was going to be our guy long term until the sale.

Looking like, but I wouldn't of even said that's a certainty. 

If the sanctions never happened, who knows what Roman had done given we lost back to back finals to Liverpool. Not to mention the start of the 2023 season...

44 minutes ago, Victor90 said:

But if Jurgen Klopp was a Chelsea manager he would've been sacked about 2-3 times. 

That works both ways though.

How many times have Liverpool, United and especially Arsenal missed out on a Klopp like appointment due to giving their underperforming managers too much time? 

2 minutes ago, Argo said:

That works both ways though.

How many times have Liverpool, United and especially Arsenal missed out on a Klopp like appointment due to giving their underperforming managers too much time? 

I vividly remember our match against Arsenal at the Emirates Dec 2020. 

Arteta was rumored to get the sack with Tuchel being the one rumored to replace him. Arsenal ended up winning and went on a little run. We sacked Lampard and appointed Tuchel. 

Edited March 8, 20242 yr by Sconnie Blue

1 hour ago, Argo said:

And out of those managers who do you think would have won us the league if they were given an unconditional amount of time?

None... We've been trying to rebuild the squad since Lampard's first stint. He brought through youngsters but the club didnt want to continue that route. now were doing it full on.. We won silverware with Sarri and tuchel but were well off the pace of the league. Would either of those coming back make us competitive? Not if the board doesnt back a manager in some way with recruitment or retaining players. 

Anyhow, tuchel wants to return which would make people happy for six months until we hit the invariable buffer with his ego. Others will be delighted that Challobah, Gallagher and Broja look likely heading out the door with some exciting youngsters coming in to replace them. Now that fills me with fear. 

 

3 hours ago, RMH said:

Yeah, we can try new things to see if the outcome improves or we can stick with something we know doesn't work and stumble along for 8 more years without challenging. It works both ways.

My reasoning is that with most managers need one season to get ideas across and work with players and see who can and cannot follow managers instructions. 

Im not saying stumble along for 8 years with one manager, but certainly stick with one while you rebuild a squad. See where it is capable of going - 6/9 months is too short and most managers are not impact managers like Jose was. We've been lucky with the playing personnel and managers who could come in and work with top international pros, the takeover has completely shaken up the backroom staff, player squad and it just needs time to bed in. 3 managers in a season won't do that. I bet Clearlake regret sacking Potter, but christ the football was turgid under him. We struggled to score, at least that's not so much of an issue currently. Small mercies imo

12 minutes ago, olderschoolcfc said:

My reasoning is that with most managers need one season to get ideas across and work with players and see who can and cannot follow managers instructions. 

Im not saying stumble along for 8 years with one manager, but certainly stick with one while you rebuild a squad. See where it is capable of going - 6/9 months is too short and most managers are not impact managers like Jose was. We've been lucky with the playing personnel and managers who could come in and work with top international pros, the takeover has completely shaken up the backroom staff, player squad and it just needs time to bed in. 3 managers in a season won't do that. I bet Clearlake regret sacking Potter, but christ the football was turgid under him. We struggled to score, at least that's not so much of an issue currently. Small mercies imo

Fair enough. I think that 6/9 months in a job should be enough to show progress and Pochettino is not even capable of having two of the most sought-after midfielders (Enzo and Caicedo) work together when they've been playing for most of the season. That, for me, is enough to know that if we persist with him, not only we are going to keep being mid table team but the young players are going to learn some bad habits and that is going to be harmful down the line. I'm not convinced of sacking him on the spot right now, I think that boat sailed after the coward perform in the final and also due to the lack of available choices that convince me right now. But, this summer, finding a new coach should be a priority for me.

1 hour ago, Sconnie Blue said:

That's a testament to his ability as a manager along with his ability to work with the club. He doesn't throw his toys out the pram or rustle feathers internally when things don't go his way. 

Tuchel's biggest issue is his personality. He's a difficult person to work with as history has shown given he's had a falling out at practically club he's been at.

Perhaps so, but still, I'm very confident our board would've sacked Klopp several times if he was our manager regardless if he's easy to work with or not. We sacked Carlo for finishing 2nd after winning us the double the year before and from my recollection, he's never been difficult to work with. 

3 hours ago, Argo said:

And out of those managers who do you think would have won us the league if they were given an unconditional amount of time?

We looked like genuine challengers under Tuchel prior to the injury crisis and Lukaku's interview

1 hour ago, Argo said:

That works both ways though.

How many times have Liverpool, United and especially Arsenal missed out on a Klopp like appointment due to giving their underperforming managers too much time? 

We arguably did that with Jose's 3rd season in hindsight, though he'd just won us the league

1 hour ago, Drogba1 said:

We looked like genuine challengers under Tuchel prior to the injury crisis and Lukaku's interview

Far too much was placed on our wingbacks. It wouldn’t have been sustainable imo. 

5 hours ago, Sconnie Blue said:

Far too much was placed on our wingbacks. It wouldn’t have been sustainable imo. 

You just need have 2 good wingbacks for each position, it's a shame we didn't have Gusto back then

 

On 07/03/2024 at 20:00, Gonoir Beniashile said:

I would say top 4 qualification next season.

If we look at it from number pov especially xG pov, we should be competing for top 4 this season but the table clearly says otherwise. It just mean we need to be more clinical and stop conceding stupid goal. 

So It is actually quite easy if we want to compete to top 4, just sign some ready made player for next season. 

A plan B st as what @just ordered so we can do something different.

One top attackers who can get number. 

A dominant cb who can lead our backline will be helpful plus a lb to replace Chilwell  (I rate Chilwell highly but he has so many injuries) 

 

3 hours ago, Bob stark said:

If we look at it from number pov especially xG pov, we should be competing for top 4 this season but the table clearly says otherwise. It just mean we need to be more clinical and stop conceding stupid goal. 

So It is actually quite easy if we want to compete to top 4, just sign some ready made player for next season. 

A plan B st as what @just ordered so we can do something different.

One top attackers who can get number. 

A dominant cb who can lead our backline will be helpful plus a lb to replace Chilwell  (I rate Chilwell highly but he has so many injuries) 

 

Yeah it doesn’t feel like we’re miles off. We can certainly compete with the top teams, we just can’t do it every week - but I think that will come and we seem to be getting slightly more consistent recently. 
 

A top striker (easier said than done) and we’ll be there. 

18 hours ago, RMH said:

Fair enough. I think that 6/9 months in a job should be enough to show progress and Pochettino is not even capable of having two of the most sought-after midfielders (Enzo and Caicedo) work together when they've been playing for most of the season. That, for me, is enough to know that if we persist with him, not only we are going to keep being mid table team but the young players are going to learn some bad habits and that is going to be harmful down the line. I'm not convinced of sacking him on the spot right now, I think that boat sailed after the coward perform in the final and also due to the lack of available choices that convince me right now. But, this summer, finding a new coach should be a priority for me.

I differ in your views of both Enzo and Caicedo being two of the most sort after midfielders. Bellingham is a sort after midfielder. I had never heard of Enzo before we signed him and I was absolutely against CFC wanting to spend 100 million more than Brighton paid for Caicedo 12 months earlier. The frankly ridiculous sums are on the board not manager. I suspect Caicedo will stay for the duration of the contract and Enzo will be off within the next 18 months and can help fund the FFP black hole and would command a fee of about 60/70 million. 

Having said that, both are at Chelsea and players have to find out what works or doesnt. A manager will only go so far and I'll simply point out the problem England had with Lampard and Gerrard. Two of the games best midfielders who just couldn't occupy or play together on the same pitch. Lampard was head and shoulders above Gerrard in every metric but the media bullied Gerrard into the team. 

We cant afford to sign new players without selling, we cant afford to be paying teams to release managers and or paying them compensation when we sack them and the entire coaching staff... 

As I said in another post. Let Poch get on with shaping the team. His Southampton side remained current after he left for spurs and the north London sh*ts did finish runners up to Contes side - he can build teams, he just hasn't figured out winning... which is when you do bring in a impact manager like Anchelotti/ Zidane etc. Worked well for Chelsea with Ranieri to Jose Mk1. 

I doubt we'll go under but this is really depressing reading. Poch is the least of our worries. 

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-ffp-points-penalty-warning-experts-2946620

 

 

 

 

5 hours ago, olderschoolcfc said:

I differ in your views of both Enzo and Caicedo being two of the most sort after midfielders. Bellingham is a sort after midfielder. I had never heard of Enzo before we signed him and I was absolutely against CFC wanting to spend 100 million more than Brighton paid for Caicedo 12 months earlier. The frankly ridiculous sums are on the board not manager. I suspect Caicedo will stay for the duration of the contract and Enzo will be off within the next 18 months and can help fund the FFP black hole and would command a fee of about 60/70 million. 

Having said that, both are at Chelsea and players have to find out what works or doesnt. A manager will only go so far and I'll simply point out the problem England had with Lampard and Gerrard. Two of the games best midfielders who just couldn't occupy or play together on the same pitch. Lampard was head and shoulders above Gerrard in every metric but the media bullied Gerrard into the team. 

We cant afford to sign new players without selling, we cant afford to be paying teams to release managers and or paying them compensation when we sack them and the entire coaching staff... 

As I said in another post. Let Poch get on with shaping the team. His Southampton side remained current after he left for spurs and the north London sh*ts did finish runners up to Contes side - he can build teams, he just hasn't figured out winning... which is when you do bring in a impact manager like Anchelotti/ Zidane etc. Worked well for Chelsea with Ranieri to Jose Mk1. 

I doubt we'll go under but this is really depressing reading. Poch is the least of our worries. 

https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/chelsea-ffp-points-penalty-warning-experts-2946620

 

 

 

 

I agree. I think the FFP/PSR situation will be the biggest concern for the club in the near future. At the very least I doubt we will be able to bring in many, if any, significant signings this summer. So whether the manager next season is Poch or a replacement, they will mostly have to work with the players available this season (minus whoever is sold to raise funds). Bearing in mind how many have chronic injury issues this looks like a fairly challenging situation for any manager.

I also think we are so freakin unlucky.. must have angered some footballing Gods.. I was watching Utd play .. gawd they are so awful but had the luck of punter..

3 minutes ago, Jangz said:

I also think we are so freakin unlucky.. must have angered some footballing Gods.. I was watching Utd play .. gawd they are so awful but had the luck of punter..

Watched the game, both teams utter f**kin sh*te, but we would make them both look prime Barcelona.

1 hour ago, Jangz said:

I also think we are so freakin unlucky.. must have angered some footballing Gods.. I was watching Utd play .. gawd they are so awful but had the luck of punter..

They've got experienced players and ones who can grab a game by the scruff of the neck when needed. 

We used to have that a long time ago. I remember some games when the likes of Drogba, Anelka, Lampard, etc. were past their primes and even when we were 2nd best you could never count us out, one of them would score a goal and save the day. 

Long time since we've had that really, if we're 2nd best, you're damn sure we're going to lose the game, and most of the time when we are the best team on the pitch we still don't get the 3 points we want.